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  1. #421
    This is a business... there's no "last" anything.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Mdev View Post
    This is a business... there's no "last" anything.
    There will be a 'last', once Blizzard is done with WoW and starts to focus on a new franchise. But that 'last' is still a long ways to come.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    On the contrary, that is the best reason not to release any more classes until the spread is more even. What would be the incentive to spend x amount of resources (let's pretend 1/5 the cost of whole expansion) to make a new class with all changes that go with it if the adoption rate is already very low for monks?
    Was a double negative, sorry. Wouldn't + aren't. "I would not be suprised if they are not scrambling to make a new class" should be "I'd be surprised if they are making a new class."

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    It's exactly that 1% I tried to get through to you. The number of tech based bosses or NPCs can be pretty easily counted out because
    ...the total number there is is more than 1% of the total and so shows you just plucked a figure out of thin air in order to make your point sound more impresisve than it really is.

    The Dwarves, Goblins, Gnomes, Draenei and Worgen are all tech using races. That isn't just one race....that's FIVE out of Eleven.
    ONE out of two factions has a very heavy tech bias.
    The Iron Hordes power comes from its technology.

    it's so damn small compared to the number of bosses and NPCs that fall under the generic fantasy stuff.
    40-50% is not "small". Or - to put it another way - how many Monk bosses did we face before MoP?

    Once more for the sixth time. The classical bard present in all previous RPGs is a support class. If Blizzard or somebody else designs it not to be, then it's no longer a bard and will be probably called something else having totally different skillset.
    Why can't Blizzard put its own spin on a class design? Other games might design the Bard as a support class, but that doesn't bind Blizzard to do the same.

    Even game designers are limited by such small things like reality. The reality is that one word theme is too broad and too imprecise to distinct one class from another, and no amount of strawmanning will change that.
    No amount of strawmanning needs to. Even if you are correct...and you aren't...all Blizzard need do is focus on one aspect of the theme. The healing spec gets to use musical instruments and play songs for support and healing; the DPS spec gets to use screams, shouts and other sonic effects (check out Kung Fu Hustle, or the Dragon Shouts of Skyrim) to cause damage. As for your point about being unable to think of enough sound based attacks...we simply need to see what Blizzard has already done ingame with the Klaxxi and others to show that they can do it, and if a sound class allows them to expand upon the available mechanics , animations, etc...I don't see a problem.

    That's a pretty big if based on nothing.
    It's based on Blizzards own comments about the work and effort they need to put into the game to balance the existing classes. Which is a lot

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2014-04-16 at 09:14 AM.

  5. #425
    I could see blizz implementing a Engineer/Tinker class, but it would be such a bland choice.

    Mail, ranged weapon, bombs/mines/turrets.
    Ranged DPS / Turrets focused / Heals for the 3 specs

    Think Roland from Borderlands 1.

  6. #426
    The Patient gorocz's Avatar
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    Robot - A mechanical "hero" class (like Death Knight hero class, it also alters your racial appearance, giving you a metallic sheen).

    You can transform into different forms and use plate armour as your armor plating and a gun (transforming its Agility to Strength) as a source of your damage.

    Tank form, which is a tank role tank. Utilize a Shield (which servers as your tank's front armour) and a gun to protect your allies from harm.

    Turret form - a ranged dps turret with heavy focus on stationary damage burst, recharging while moving around, with a possibility of weaker sustained, but mobile, dps while in need of the mobility.

    Robot form, a basic your-race-shaped robot melee fighter, utilizing their mechanically-enhanced strength to deal heavy melee range damage, using their jackhammer-like metal fists with their gun as a power source/engine (piston).

    There's still a load of ideas...
    Last edited by gorocz; 2014-04-16 at 02:29 AM.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    40-50% is not "small". Or - to put it another way - how many Monk bosses did we face before MoP?
    Where did you get the notion that almost half the bosses and NPCs in WoW are tech characters?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gorocz View Post
    Robot - A mechanical "hero" class (like Death Knight hero class, it also alters your racial appearance, giving you a metallic sheen).
    The Curse of Flesh is something that exists, and the Azerothian races do not know how to do or undo it. A 'robot' race and/or class cannot exist.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    The Dwarves, Goblins, Gnomes, Draenei and Worgen are all tech using races. That isn't just one race....that's FIVE out of Eleven.
    Sorry but no... A dwarf priest or goblin warlock or gnome mage or draenei shaman or worgen druid (just throwing examples) has got absolutely nothing to do with technology unless they happen to pick up engineering profession.

    What you are trying to claim is that because some of the 7 billion humans on earth play Counterstrike everybody you can ever meet has played Counterstrike. Being born in a society that does x does not imply that the character must be also using x, that is a classical logic fallacy straight from Teriz' school.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    ONE out of two factions has a very heavy tech bias.
    The Iron Hordes power comes from its technology.
    Iron Horde has got nothing to do with Horde, they're the enemies of both factions in WoD. Don't get fooled by the name, or alternatively don't start grasping at straws and pull some stupidest nitpicks of the year here. So yeah, which playable faction again has technology bias?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    40-50% is not "small". Or - to put it another way - how many Monk bosses did we face before MoP?
    It's still 1% when all the intentional logic fails are cleaned off the table.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Why can't Blizzard put its own spin on a class design? Other games might design the Bard as a support class, but that doesn't bind Blizzard to do the same.
    They can, but as I have said already three times it wouldn't be the bard class that exists in all other RPGs because all of those previous ones were support classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    It's based on Blizzards own comments about the work and effort they need to put into the game to balance the existing classes.
    And yet they have nowhere said or used the words "too much".

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by fixx View Post
    Sorry but no... A dwarf priest or goblin warlock or gnome mage or draenei shaman or worgen druid (just throwing examples) has got absolutely nothing to do with technology unless they happen to pick up engineering profession.
    That is a hugely restrictive definition that tries to apply to classes what I stated applied to ***races***.

    Iron Horde has got nothing to do with Horde
    Who said they were? They are a massive tech based army. As an example of tech users in the game, I'd say they count.

    It's still 1% when all the intentional logic fails are cleaned off the table.
    The big trouble with that figure is you just plucked it out of thin air because it makes your argument sound good. The real figure is much higher.

    They can, but as I have said already three times it wouldn't be the bard class that exists in all other RPGs because all of those previous ones were support classes.
    Yes...but who really cares what other RPGs do? A Bard simply needs to be a musical class. Everything else...including role in game...is optional. If Blizzard wants to copy the trope closely, it can...but it doesn't have to.

    And yet they have nowhere said or used the words "too much".


    Which is why we are guessing how many more classes. I think 1 or 2 more. It may be none. But if they are already complaining about the huge amount of work and effort it takes to balance the existing setup of 34 specs, they aren't going to be keen on adding classes at all. 0-2 seems feasible. 3 or more seems unlikely barring a reworking of the class/spec system.

    EJL

  10. #430
    The Patient gorocz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The Curse of Flesh is something that exists, and the Azerothian races do not know how to do or undo it. A 'robot' race and/or class cannot exist.
    But they can still build robots, right? I mean, races like Draenei and Orcs don't have anything to do with the Curse of Flesh, yet I would not exclude them from my robot class. It wouldn't be a cyborg, it would be an android - a humanoid robot, a fully artificiallly made mechanoid.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    That is a hugely restrictive definition that tries to apply to classes what I stated applied to ***races***.
    You claimed those RACES were somehow tech aligned, while I could easily point out examples that proves you wrong. The point was and still is that if I can provide even one member of said race that isn't tech aligned, then it is totally and utterly wrong to claim that the whole race is tech aligned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Who said they were? They are a massive tech based army. As an example of tech users in the game, I'd say they count.
    Everything available so far from WoD spoilers points towards Iron Horde being destroyed before patch 6.2. Therefore it's pretty damn minor part of the game as a whole and relegated to even lesser role than Titans in the whole Warcraft universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    The big trouble with that figure is you just plucked it out of thin air because it makes your argument sound good. The real figure is much higher.
    WoWhead database has currently ~44000 NPCs listed. If you do a search for "tinker", "engineer" and "mechanic" the grand total is 159, or approximately 0.3% of whole NPC database. Even if you pull "mechanical" classified NPCs out of the list the number is 1063, or just a little over 2%. No matter how you look at it, tech based NPCs are incredibly tiny minority overall in the game.

    Or do you think my method of pulling the statistics is wrong or flawed somehow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Yes...but who really cares what other RPGs do? A Bard simply needs to be a musical class. Everything else...including role in game...is optional. If Blizzard wants to copy the trope closely, it can...but it doesn't have to.
    For the fifth time: Blizzard can make a class called bard, but it will be nothing like the bard class in other games because bards in other games are support class.
    Last edited by fixx; 2014-04-16 at 10:23 AM.

  12. #432
    I am Murloc! muto's Avatar
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    You milk a cow until its utters are dry. Blizzard will continue to pump out classes and races as long as a good amount of people are still playing the game.


  13. #433
    There can be as many classes as the designers can come up with new ideas for them, but lets see through your case:

    1: Really doesn't matter, we went 9 years with 1 Int Plate Wearer and 2 specs (1 class) of Int Mail wearer. Changing primary stats streamlines things, slightly and actually makes more variety tolerable.

    2: There's a ton of "new" kinds of Heroes in WoW itself. And it's not like some of the WoW variation on the Hero class themes actually ended up bearing any relation to the WC version anyway.

    3: Design space is a weird argument that can be broken down to incredibly bare bones that could easily have led to no space for most of the existing classes. On the other hand, actual playstyle, aesthetics, and the options for spec roles leave gaps all over the place.

    4: Again, it depends how you break the "types" down; I'd contest that there are 4 roles - Tanking, Healing, Melee DPS and Ranged DPS. The latter could, if a Ranger class were added for example, be then broken down to Caster and Physical ranged. Suddenly you're not nearly as close to the symmetry you seek.

    5: Is just a silly argument, which would have left no room for Monks on previous iterrations of the website. Web design would just be fixed to accomodate anything new on the official site (which is frankly in need of some refreshing as it is looking quite tired and old) and on fansites which are always a step behind.

    Essentially, your argument comes down purely to a search for symmetry and patterns where none exists, and none need to exist. That fundamentally just means your argument at its very basis is completely without foundation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elementalkin View Post
    On the 5th note, they're also running out of viable color choices. Big problem!
    Actually an interesting point, but you can have brighter red, lighter purple, beige, black, silver; so 5 more at least

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Actually an interesting point, but you can have brighter red, lighter purple, beige, black, silver; so 5 more at least
    'Brighter red' is 'enemy mob' color. 'Silver' is 'tagged mob' color. Black is 'dead' color (empty health bar). So, out of you examples, just two of them are useable. :/

  15. #435
    Legendary! Callace's Avatar
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    The chances of a 12th class are small, and a 13th non-existant.

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