Final Fantasy XIV is for lovers

[Deleted]

Good thing about 1 character is also you can pick up gear for your other classes as you go on, and raid and such, which if you have 2 characters you just have to raid seperately for gear, and risking wrong pieces drop and gone to waste.

Yeah that's true, but doesn't that also come with problems in the end game? Imagine everyone having an interest in every piece of gear that exists. And I thought people ninjaing gear for their off-spec in WoW were a pain in the ass. I don't want to know how that is in FF 14.

And being able to collect gear with one job and then being able to use it for another job takes away some of the motivation to play that job in the first place.

[Kutartwo]

Yeah that's true, but doesn't that also come with problems in the end game? Imagine everyone having an interest in every piece of gear that exists. And I thought people ninjaing gear for their off-spec in WoW were a pain in the ass. I don't want to know how that is in FF 14.

And being able to collect gear with one job and then being able to use it for another job takes away some of the motivation to play that job in the first place.

Every piece in the game is assigned a class. Once you queue into a dungeon or CT, you cannot switch specs. Meaning ig you queue as a dragoon, you stay as a dragoon. Once a piece drops, only the class that piece is assigned to gets to need. If no one needs it, then its fair game for everyone else. The game essentially takes ninjaing away. Wow on the other hand makes it so that anyone who can benefit from the stars can roll, thats why ninjaing exists there.
An why is the motivation to play a certain class so important? You have to play the gamein order to progress any job, that in itself should be enough. With duty finder roulette, its pretty much insta queue (except for dps which is still only a couple minutes) for every class.

[Deleted]

Every piece in the game is assigned a class. Once you queue into a dungeon or CT, you cannot switch specs. Meaning ig you queue as a dragoon, you stay as a dragoon. Once a piece drops, only the class that piece is assigned to gets to need. If no one needs it, then its fair game for everyone else. The game essentially takes ninjaing away. Wow on the other hand makes it so that anyone who can benefit from the stars can roll, thats why ninjaing exists there.

So basically each and every piece in the game is only usable by one class? That sounds terrible.

An why is the motivation to play a certain class so important? You have to play the gamein order to progress any job, that in itself should be enough. With duty finder roulette, its pretty much insta queue (except for dps which is still only a couple minutes) for every class.

I don't think the easiest way to gear up should be to play a different class, but if your chances are low to get gear for other jobs, that takes care of that.

[Deleted]

So basically each and every piece in the game is only usable by one class? That sounds terrible.




I don't think the easiest way to gear up should be to play a different class, but if your chances are low to get gear for other jobs, that takes care of that.

I get where you're coming from, but you clearly haven't played the game, or know all that much about it... So it feels abit wierd to have you stating your opinion in such a manner.

I was very skeptical to FFXIV at first, but once I got into it I realised that for once I truly didnt feel like making any alts, the way jobs combined and the fact that while your third or forth class might get abit grindy due to lack of quests, its still fun, slightly clunky, but ultimately fun.

Also, you can't mail your own characters, thus making an alt and sending stuff to it, is a no go :P
The game is really built around the idea of having one single character, every aspect is structured around that fact.

So while I see where you're coming from, FFXIV's systems are in fact some of the best I've seen, that said, it lacks alot of the personality other games have, but the core systems around classes, loot etc, I really think they nailed and did a very good job.
If someone took the questing from SWTOR, the Combat fluidity and art style of WoW (but with a more modern engine), the skill trees of RIFT and the multi-class system and loot distribution of FFXIV, and for good measure the character creation kit of both aion and champions online smacked into one...

Then that would be one hell of an MMO imho :P

[Kutartwo]

So basically each and every piece in the game is only usable by one class? That sounds terrible.




I don't think the easiest way to gear up should be to play a different class, but if your chances are low to get gear for other jobs, that takes care of that.

No, not each and every single piece is not only usable by one class, it can only be needed by one class. A dragoon can wear monk gear but cant need on it, even though both benefit from the same stats. A tank can wear healing gear, but not need, Although i would advise against it.
And its not the easiest way to gear up other jobs, my point was if people want to do it, what the problem?

As the above post mentioned, its clear you haven't played much, if any, of the game. Yet you seem pretty judgemental, and pretty quick to tell people how the game should be. Best bet, try it out, you might like the way they do things. Or you might not, but thats when you can come in with your opinion on how it should be.

[Armourboy]

Having played many MMO's over the years, I really like the one character all classes system. I like it mainly because I've always identified myself with one major character and it was always frustrating trying to keep up with who is who and what alt they were on. In this system, the class/job is the alt, not the character which is a very refreshing idea.

The only drawback I can see is that when adding new classes/jobs they may at some point need to change how the activation for weapon changes work. For instance, if they ever add Thief they will be forced to do something to differentiate between them and Paladins being Paladins already use daggers and that is the traditional weapon of the Thief.

[RoninaThorstone]

The only drawback I can see is that when adding new classes/jobs they may at some point need to change how the activation for weapon changes work. For instance, if they ever add Thief they will be forced to do something to differentiate between them and Paladins being Paladins already use daggers and that is the traditional weapon of the Thief.

There's a solution for that if they look at tera or vindictus.

Have the thief weapon be a "pair of daggers" rather than main hand off hand, then have their offhand be something like a lockpick.

[jearle]

Yeah that's true, but doesn't that also come with problems in the end game? Imagine everyone having an interest in every piece of gear that exists. And I thought people ninjaing gear for their off-spec in WoW were a pain in the ass. I don't want to know how that is in FF 14.

And being able to collect gear with one job and then being able to use it for another job takes away some of the motivation to play that job in the first place.

The beauty of a system like this, is you can have people fill in roles flawlessly. If you have a healer miss a raid someone else can switch over to heals and take care of that. Fight not melee friendly? Your melee can switch to a ranged class. For people comfortable playing any role in the game it gives flexibility to do so.

I currently have a character completely geared for melee dps (ilvl90) decent geared Bard (iLvl 84) and a WAR tank (Ilvl 80). So i can fill in melee, ranged or tank roles.

The only issue that happens with raiding is even though you have multiple classes you only have 1 lockout and not many opportunities at loot.

Coil drops 90 iLvL gear and has 4 bosses (3 which are easily killable and 1 that is more difficult) which generally means your seeing 6 pieces of loot per week for the average raid. Which means RNG can screw your raid, we have seen 18/24 pieces in the last month be DRG/MNK gear.
Crystal Tower drops iLvl 80 gear and can be run infinite amount of time but only 1 item can be looted on a weekly basis.

Extreme primals and other fights drop some ilvl 90 accessories and can be farmed but only for that 1 slot.

Over time you will get enough myth to gear out alts as well but it will take a good amount of time.
I started a second character and am doing all the DoMagic with it as well and will have a separate lockout for gear.

[Deleted]

I get where you're coming from, but you clearly haven't played the game, or know all that much about it... So it feels abit wierd to have you stating your opinion in such a manner.

I was very skeptical to FFXIV at first, but once I got into it I realised that for once I truly didnt feel like making any alts, the way jobs combined and the fact that while your third or forth class might get abit grindy due to lack of quests, its still fun, slightly clunky, but ultimately fun.

Also, you can't mail your own characters, thus making an alt and sending stuff to it, is a no go :P
The game is really built around the idea of having one single character, every aspect is structured around that fact.

So while I see where you're coming from, FFXIV's systems are in fact some of the best I've seen, that said, it lacks alot of the personality other games have, but the core systems around classes, loot etc, I really think they nailed and did a very good job.
If someone took the questing from SWTOR, the Combat fluidity and art style of WoW (but with a more modern engine), the skill trees of RIFT and the multi-class system and loot distribution of FFXIV, and for good measure the character creation kit of both aion and champions online smacked into one...

Then that would be one hell of an MMO imho :P

I have played the game but not to max level, but I've also heard a lot about it from others. I know that you can't mail your alts, but that is because the system is created in such a way where they expect you to have all classes on one character. So when I'm talking about having alts I'm comparing it to other games, where that is normal, mostly WoW. I'm not so much comparing having multiple characters in FF14 to having one character in FF14 as I am comparing the different systems. So while I do understand the advantages of having multiple jobs on one character in this system, now that it is created in this way, I don't prefer this kind of system.

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No, not each and every single piece is not only usable by one class, it can only be needed by one class. A dragoon can wear monk gear but cant need on it, even though both benefit from the same stats. A tank can wear healing gear, but not need, Although i would advise against it.
And its not the easiest way to gear up other jobs, my point was if people want to do it, what the problem?

As the above post mentioned, its clear you haven't played much, if any, of the game. Yet you seem pretty judgemental, and pretty quick to tell people how the game should be. Best bet, try it out, you might like the way they do things. Or you might not, but thats when you can come in with your opinion on how it should be.

That sounds even worse to me. Two classes can use it, but one gets dips? Why? Are they equally an upgrade for both classes?

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The beauty of a system like this, is you can have people fill in roles flawlessly. If you have a healer miss a raid someone else can switch over to heals and take care of that. Fight not melee friendly? Your melee can switch to a ranged class. For people comfortable playing any role in the game it gives flexibility to do so.

I currently have a character completely geared for melee dps (ilvl90) decent geared Bard (iLvl 84) and a WAR tank (Ilvl 80). So i can fill in melee, ranged or tank roles.

The only issue that happens with raiding is even though you have multiple classes you only have 1 lockout and not many opportunities at loot.

Coil drops 90 iLvL gear and has 4 bosses (3 which are easily killable and 1 that is more difficult) which generally means your seeing 6 pieces of loot per week for the average raid. Which means RNG can screw your raid, we have seen 18/24 pieces in the last month be DRG/MNK gear.
Crystal Tower drops iLvl 80 gear and can be run infinite amount of time but only 1 item can be looted on a weekly basis.

Extreme primals and other fights drop some ilvl 90 accessories and can be farmed but only for that 1 slot.

Over time you will get enough myth to gear out alts as well but it will take a good amount of time.
I started a second character and am doing all the DoMagic with it as well and will have a separate lockout for gear.

Yeah people can switch classes easily, but only if they have the right gear for the content right? People in other games can just hop on an alt, which sounds to me like it's not that much more work.

[Katchii]

Yeah people can switch classes easily, but only if they have the right gear for the content right? People in other games can just hop on an alt, which sounds to me like it's not that much more work.

Difference being that in other games, namely WoW, (until Timeless Isle anyway) you had to level your alt and acquire gear seperately from your main. In this game leveling another class benefits at least 2 other classes due to the cross class skills. Also, if you're in a raid or dungeon or whatever and a Bind on Pickup item drops that you're current class can't use, you still have the option of picking it up (if no one else needs it, etc... just like WoW with off-spec gear) and using it later, so "wasted" gear drops are very rare.

It takes some adjusting to, honestly, but it's amazing how flexible it is. My favorie part, is having a completely geared out main class being able to do dungeon speed runs to farm tomes to use to gear up your "alts." Rather than slogging through the content in noob gear before you can get properly equipped for end game.

[Kelimbror]

It takes some adjusting to, honestly, but it's amazing how flexible it is.

The ability to use one character to do everything (without penalty) is pretty awesome. Queue up for one job while questing on another. Change profession at will. No need to ever log off from the game. Everyone can be everything, so it's easier to fill roles, play with friends, etc. No BS factions to segregate the playerbase in PvE content. So many things that FFXIV does right, that's for sure. They are definitely an example of how to take traditional MMO stuff, add a little flavor and expand its capabilities, without the need for creating a genre changing experience. All its negatives aside, it's a fun game that I look forward to returning to one day.

[Deleted]

Difference being that in other games, namely WoW, (until Timeless Isle anyway) you had to level your alt and acquire gear seperately from your main. In this game leveling another class benefits at least 2 other classes due to the cross class skills. Also, if you're in a raid or dungeon or whatever and a Bind on Pickup item drops that you're current class can't use, you still have the option of picking it up (if no one else needs it, etc... just like WoW with off-spec gear) and using it later, so "wasted" gear drops are very rare.

It takes some adjusting to, honestly, but it's amazing how flexible it is. My favorie part, is having a completely geared out main class being able to do dungeon speed runs to farm tomes to use to gear up your "alts." Rather than slogging through the content in noob gear before you can get properly equipped for end game.

That's what I meant, it's like having everything be accountbound in a game like WoW. I get that people like that but I'm not sure if that is the right way to go. I bet that it feels good, if you only "have" to do things once. But it takes away a lot of the replayability I think, and people shouldn't advance one class/job by playing the other, or it shouldn't be the best way to do so.

The ability to use one character to do everything (without penalty) is pretty awesome. Queue up for one job while questing on another. Change profession at will. No need to ever log off from the game. Everyone can be everything, so it's easier to fill roles, play with friends, etc. No BS factions to segregate the playerbase in PvE content. So many things that FFXIV does right, that's for sure. They are definitely an example of how to take traditional MMO stuff, add a little flavor and expand its capabilities, without the need for creating a genre changing experience. All its negatives aside, it's a fun game that I look forward to returning to one day.

Ok the queuing up thing is pretty good I have to admit that, I always wished I could do that. But then again, leveling up another job in FF14 is not like leveling up a class in other games, because you can only ever do each quest once. At one point you'll run out of quests and have to grind and what if you actually do want to experience the story again?

[RoninaThorstone]

At one point you'll run out of quests

Levemete, instances, fates?

[Deleted]

Levemete, instances, fates?

Grinding, grinding, grinding.

[Kelimbror]

Ok the queuing up thing is pretty good I have to admit that, I always wished I could do that. But then again, leveling up another job in FF14 is not like leveling up a class in other games, because you can only ever do each quest once. At one point you'll run out of quests and have to grind and what if you actually do want to experience the story again?

Oh I hear you on that. I have criticized it in the past, because I don't think the game is perfect (hence I'm not playing it currently). To be more ideal it really should have more quests, repeatable quests when you switch classes, etc. I don't think you should be forced to grind up every other job just because. It's an area that could use huge improvement.

[Tazila]

For the whole "one thing per class thing"...

Depends on the class. The healing items are for both CNJ and SCH, Tank items go to both PLD and GLA, BLM and SMN also share the same items, only ones that don't are MNK, DRG, and BRD.

http://www.ffxivguild.com/ffxiv-crys...egy-loot-list/

So ninjaing items can still happen, you just need to ninja for one of the items that your class goes with. A SCH who has SCH only pants, may need on the SCH/CNJ pants for his almost 50 CNJ, and vice versa.



As for the game being for lovers, I can kind of see it, but I always play the same games with my BF anyways, WoW, FF, League.. sooo... I guess for a couple where there's only one gamer it makes sense... but I don't see the whole leveling a second class process going well for someone who's never played an MMO since a lot of people dislike the actual process (not the ability to do so though) that actually play MMO's.

[spaace]

you only make a second character if you want an easy 300k or so

[Asphyxiate9]

I really like the design system, I think though having one for magic and another for physical is good since levelling without many quests gets really boring and repetitive.

[CandyCotton Marshmallows]

So while I see where you're coming from, FFXIV's systems are in fact some of the best I've seen, that said, it lacks alot of the personality other games have, but the core systems around classes, loot etc, I really think they nailed and did a very good job.
If someone took the questing from SWTOR, the Combat fluidity and art style of WoW (but with a more modern engine), the skill trees of RIFT and the multi-class system and loot distribution of FFXIV, and for good measure the character creation kit of both aion and champions online smacked into one...

Then that would be one hell of an MMO imho :P

I disagree with art style of WoW; I'm sick of it, and a modern engine isn't going to change it that much. They could do so much more now, but use art style as an excuse. I'll say, the style itself is fine, their implementation of it is not. They choose to make lazy trees. They choose to make lazy models (all pandas of a gender, same basic face). Taking so long for character updates and them still being a bit lackluster for today's standards imo (not style, but quality of the style; cinematics still have their art style while looking amazing, while that isn't realistic, it should be at least an ideal to strive for, instead of, better than current).

The art style in FFXIV is amazing. The nights are dark, the lighting in general is amazing, it is a beautiful game while still being artistic, not realistic. The landscape is done quite well. I also like Tera's art style. I think SWtOR's is good for being based on SWtOR. I think Rift looked good at launch, but it isn't holding up as well overall and their engine is poorly managed (so is SWtOR's).

SWtOR's questing is hands down the most involved and immersed I've been questing in just about any game I've ever played. I didn't mind FFXIV, and I don't mind WoW when I can enjoy the class-spec I'm playing. I like the FATEs and Rifts for breaking up monotony of questing in the world and having some random cooperative player interaction. Something like Instant Adventures from Rift added in is a good bonus. While on the subject of the world and involvement (which is the basis of questing), things like artifacts and rare discoveries like rift has and WoW tried to implement in MoP are good things as well.

I like the combat in FFXIV and have NO issues with the gcd being longer than most, but WoW has fine tuned their combat engine over the years. I also find SWtORs to be just fine now, and it wasn't that bad at launch and I first leveled a warrior. I enjoy the action-based Tera combat also. I would say, fluidity of WoW, the focus on avoidance of FFXIV and Tera, ability of non tab targeted combat like tera; but also having the tab targeting system of SWtOR which has been the best I've experienced.

The robust skill trees like Rift, or even like pre-Cata WoW and SWtOR are great in their own right, even if there wasn't much 'choice'; and the addition of cross class abilities from FFXIV would be fun to have as well.

Aion's creation was pretty damn nice. It'd be great to see the future go towards that as a standard. The FFXIV loot system works, but I don't see it too far from the standard today, just a bit more tuned.

What I'd like to see as much as any of the technical stuff; is the proper, positive, helpful, and rpg (not RP) oriented players to be all you see. No more trolls, no more tough guys, no more loot whores, no more wanna be elite raiders (good raiders are great, I'm speaking of the ones who skip the core of the game then complain like at SWtOR launch). Just a helpful friendly community ... you know, like nostalgia makes people think of vanilla WoW, or how quite a few games trend back to being once the bullies/trolls leave after they are bored of being douchebags or want a bigger audience/more attention. Without the positive community aspect, a game will fail no matter how good it is (looking at you, WoW major sub drop). The PEOPLE make the game what it is more than just about any possible thing the developers can do other than hand you a piece of polished shit.

Grinding, grinding, grinding.

no different than 'end game' then, huh? The grind is only there if you perceive it to be a grind. Vanilla WoW was grindy, just much less so than EverQuest. End game raiding is extremely grindy. You literally raid the same X bosses for 6 months, get new raid, repeat. Assuming even IF you get BiS before that, most likely your entire raid hasn't and if you are not selfish, you continue for them (though as your group approaches it, your 'grind' starts to become minimal). Now, if you enjoy raiding, then it isn't a grind, it is fun. If you only 'like' to raid, not love it ... that 12th week of killing the same bosses trying to get a damn trinket might feel quite grindy. Perception. The same goes for dailies. The MoP launch dailies weren't the problem, it was the way they locked gear behind tiers without understanding the way the psychology of the players have changed.

You said earlier, what is the inspiration to play if you get fully geared (grossly paraphrased). The reason to play, should NEVER be strictly for loot or being 'first!'; but because of the people you play with and the world you play in. There is where the longevity of the game lies. Not about being in BiS or not; or even being given 'welfare epics' ... it is wanting to log on to play with friends; to go do content that is fun first, that may also be challenging depending on the people.

When you take away the world, the people, and the fun ... what you are left with is a bunch of selfish, gear lustful, lore/world ignoring, competition obsessive, fair weather players. They log on to do their 'job'; clear the raid and do what else is required, then log off. Once they finish the tier to their or their group's acceptance, they possibly unsub until next raid patch, because there is no gear, and no race to compete for. They don't log on much for friends or their guild; because their guild is strictly out of convenience or necessity (stepping stone guilds, progression guilds with no social aspect; respectively). They aren't bothered with exploring, questing, lore patches, or any other ancillary thing that doesn't either relate to increasing their power or proving their skill. Their relationship with the game becomes shallow and fleeting, instead of passionate and enduring (outside the few goals).


In Rift, I 'grinded' Rifts more than quested up to the low 50s on my last attempt playing the game. At low 50s, the xp return was so low, doing IAs, Rifts, and zone events became unrewarding overall and -that- is the moment it felt like a grind. I tried to quest, and because the amount of xp needed to get from say, 56 to 57 was so large, it felt like a massive grind. I just left instead of trying to leech off of GHRs which were considered the most efficient path (at the time). I didn't want to do it just because it was efficient, nor did I want to be involved in something I could make a minimal contribution to. I just quit playing.

WoW, I went about 2 months of doing all dailies available to me (until exalted), every day, working on alts ... and then one day it felt like a grind and I couldn't do it any longer. I didn't mind them up to that point. I just started to not like the feeling of a daily chore list in the game (farm, dailies, cooldowns, etc), which it began to feel like; add to that, the specs I enjoyed most on several classes had been changed and it killed my 'fun'. I actually enjoyed MoP at launch. I like the look and feel. I may not have liked the changes to my main spec and class overall; but I endured and tried to enjoy it, and for the most part I did (though not my old main spec). But that feeling of 'grind' that crept in, almost killed MMOs in general for me, and I'm quite sensitive to it now. I'm very careful how I approach things in game, especially since the genre is based around metered paced grind, you cannot escape it.

It would be better if you had a better grasp on the game you are discussing itself. I can respect you don't agree with the class/job system; but that doesn't mean it is wrong or bad; and it doesn't even mean you wouldn't like it if you gave it an honest chance; but it very well could mean you wouldn't like it, and not much would stop one from rolling a second or third character; though you'd still limit yourself and plan for at least setting up combos that work well together ... jobs that require the same supporting classes, that went after the same stats so you could use things like earrings etc between them, especially while leveling up.

Jobs only require level 15 in the second dependent class. Though most require that or a third class to be leveled moderately high for a near essential cross class ability (such as SwiftCast).

Remember, no mailing anything to alts. Working on the mount from scratch as well as your GC rank. Unlocking all the dungeons again ... etc. It seems silly when you start it, if on the same server. No, alts are pretty much when you want to play on multiple servers; and a great way for you to experience the story again and experience a different server community.

[Grym]

If someone took the questing from SWTOR, the Combat fluidity and art style of WoW (but with a more modern engine), the skill trees of RIFT and the multi-class system and loot distribution of FFXIV, and for good measure the character creation kit of both aion and champions online smacked into one...
Then that would be one hell of an MMO imho :P

Questing from SWTOR = arguable, but then from what I heard SWTOR do have some amazing leveling experience (not played it myself)
Combat Fluidity as WoW = agreed, that'd be rather amazing (including the latency)
Art Style from WoW = No thank you. If anything most people hated the cartoony art style of WoW. I used to play FFXI and it is the art style that stopped me from trying WoW. I played WoW for years now and I do like the game for what it is, but art style is certainly NOT one of them.
Skill Tree of RIFT = while not played RIFT myself, from what I heard, their skill are very similar to all classes no? Or was that GW?