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  1. #1

    All These Different "Tiers" of Gear Are the Worst Thing WoW Has Ever Done

    Seriously, we have LFR, Flex, Normal, Normal Warforged, Heroic, Heroic Warforged - where does it stop?

    I took a break early on in ToT from just being burned out, recently some friends convinced me to come back and play, and getting geared up for the content I want to do has never been more difficult. I've taken breaks like this before and I have never, ever had this much trouble getting back into the game. All these options to make the game more casual and new exciting ways Blizzard has decided to hand out gear has done nothing but throw up extra walls for returning players.

    When I left I was getting top 50 ranks fairly regularly on World of Logs. So, I come back, pick up whatever new freebies are available, and decide to start looking for normal mode pugs. Just kidding, you need full Flex gear before they'll take you. Fine, I guess. Flex seems alright, sort of like what LFR always should have been. I start trying to find Flex groups. I get laughed out of the ones that will even take me for my "pathetic" 110k dps. What the fuck? I mean, really, what the fuck? People are pulling over 200k dps now without even trying thanks to all these different flavours of gear. We started this expansion doing 50k and now top logs are over 500k.

    So, here I am, used to fully clearing heroic content pre-nerf and I can't even get into a normal mode group. Not because I'm not skilled, but even with all the skills in the world I can't outplay someone with warforged normal mode weapons because they're like 50 ilvl's higher than my HEROIC EMPRESS mace. Give me a break.

    Maybe all these different tiers of gear are great for some people. But for me its fucking cancer, I'm relegated to LFR for the next two months to play catch up on my gear to do any sort of interesting content. I've always been able to skip a tier, come back, and be competitive on the pick up group level with my old gear. Sure, I was never getting parses or topping meters, but I've never been a liability or a carry like I would be in any group now. What were they thinking when they made the game like this? I'm shelving WoW until WoD.

    Thats my rant. Has anybody else had this issue?
    Last edited by crunk; 2014-01-06 at 06:39 PM.

  2. #2
    In my experience, this is also the cause of alot of burnout for some people in my guild. Just too much of the same thing. Every week some people kill the same boss 3+ times.

  3. #3
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    I thought we had already seen all the "worst things that WoW has ever done"

    As for "I can't get in a normal group" - how about you set one up yourself? There is Oqueue and Openraid to help.

    Meh..others will pick your post apart. Kinda annoyed at this "It is always somebody elses fault" attitude here lately.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk
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    In honesty, I'd rather see 6 bosses rather than 3 modes for 2 bosses, but hey, it's how it is?
    zzzz
    but I do understand why.
    WoW is in SOME ways, becoming the world of diablocraft.
    We already picked up the 'flavor trees' for talents.
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    Proof that the mmochamp community can be a bitter and lonely place. What a shame.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer slime's Avatar
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    You should head out to the timeless isle and get some burdens and some welfare epics. Forget gearing in LFR serious pain in the ass. Oh and free Celestials and Ordos gear too.
    Last edited by slime; 2014-01-06 at 06:46 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    I thought we had already seen all the "worst things that WoW has ever done"

    As for "I can't get in a normal group" - how about you set one up yourself? There is Oqueue and Openraid to help.

    Meh..others will pick your post apart. Kinda annoyed at this "It is always somebody elses fault" attitude here lately.

    Why would I set up my own group? Is dragging 9 other people into a dungeon to carry you your idea of a good time? This isn't a "wah I cant find a group" post, this is a "wah Blizzard has set up their gear treadmill to make my character absolutely useless even though he has, what should be, passable gear" post.

    In the past all I've had to do to get a group is say "Hey man I'm a little undergeared but I've read the fights and I have this, this, and this achievement from other patches..." and they take me. Or, like suggested, I just make my own group because I know I have the skills to play and lead a PUG raid. Now, its all irrelevant, because its mathematically impossible to do respectable numbers because of the absolutely insane power creep this expansion.

    And, yeah, it is 100% Blizzards fault. The only reason the game is like this is so scrubs can pick up new gear from LFR and see a power increase without ever learning how to play their class. The game has never been like this until Throne of Thunder.
    Last edited by crunk; 2014-01-06 at 06:52 PM.

  7. #7
    High Overlord F4ulty's Avatar
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    Only thing I will say is that warforged gear inflated the numbers more than they should have been, just like they did with hard mode gear in LK, and that OF COURSE someone with a weapon two raid tiers above yours has the better weapon, that's just a silly thing to complain about

  8. #8
    I agree with you. Not sure it is "the worst thing WoW has ever done", but these tiers of gear (or difficulty even, although gear is the worst) just suck.

  9. #9
    OP: Your problem is that you took a break early in the ToT tier, probably leaving you with mainly 522 pieces, and you rejoined late in the final tier of the expansion. You're going through the same thing that people went through if they stopped in early Firelands and rejoined at late DS... except you apparently haven't acquainted yourself very well with the catch-up mechanic (timeless isle burdens).

    Kill the new world bosses, join some heroic ToT pugs and farm Burdens on the Isle and finish off your legendary questline. After a couple weeks of that, you should have no problem getting into Flex raids and then normal groups.

    Remember: Being a "top 50 parser" at some point before you took a break doesn't mean anything to the people inviting you to groups. There's literally no reason to even mention something like that. If you take a break, you fall behind. Once you catch up, you can continue raiding.

    TL;DR: You're dealing with typical left-behind-late-expansion stuff. It's easy enough to get over the hurdle if you put some effort in. If you don't like it, then I suggest returning to the game at the start of a tier instead of at the end (or not playing so much that you burn yourself out).

  10. #10
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    OP, I feel your pain...

    I was also a pre-nerf heroic progression raider, and I quit in April (a few weeks into ToT) for some RL issues. I came back near Blizzcon, and since my guild had stopped raiding, have been trying to find a new one at the same level of play I was used to.

    Good luck with that. Because of my gear (which I've managed to eke up to 546 ilvl through a regular flex group I had to practically prepare a brief to convince to let me in), none of the guilds with what I'd consider a similar skill level will take a look at me despite having solid logs (for my ilvl). I'm pretty much at the max ilvl for what I have access to, unless I get lucky with some Ordos drops. Forget even slightly lesser quality guilds...I'm getting interest from 1-4/14H guilds, which is well below where I should be. And to an extent, I can understand guilds not wanting to dump gear on an unknown quantity, and *then* evaluate them, especially if they're still progressing (as I've been looking mainly for 12+/14H guilds.

    So now we're both stuck with the same option: guild/group hop, which I will have to server transfer for, or work your way through a shitty guild to get the gear you need just to be considered by the better guilds. Both options are shitty, to me, because I hate guild hopping, and I don't think its fair to the stepping stone guilds I work my way through, who want to have long term raiders. At this point I'm probably just going to do normal modes in a friend's guild until WoD when gear is equalized. When I quit in April, I had a 518 ilvl, which I killed H-Durumu with during our guild's progression (the world first guilds had an average of 520ish ilvl, we had much higher, I was just behind in gear).. Now heroic guilds want all 565+ which is basically full heroic gear. It's frustrating, and I'm applying a RL strategy of filling out a few applications a day since the New Year.

  11. #11
    "Worst thing WoW had ever done"

    You are writing it likes this system isnt in place since the first raid tier of WoW. And as for killing the same boss 3x a week.. how about you dont just do it? I raid heroic and kill all my bosses there, no reason to do anything else than Flex 4 for the extra chance on pets and BoA weapons.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans crakerjack's Avatar
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    There's nothing wrong with tiers, there's just an issue with having tier gear for everyone setting. IMO, there should only be 2 tiers, one for reg and one for heroic. Flex/LFR should only award badges or valor points or w/e they currently use... You shouldn't get a single piece of loot and if you do, it should be entry level into the first tier of MoP. WoW needs to revert to the TBC days where gear isn't just handed out... unlike back then, you could use PvP gear, but now it wouldn't be viable due to PvP power... so this time around we wouldn't see people getting PvP gear... instead we'd see people doing the old raids and progress through each tier until they were finally at the last one.

    This is how I see it, you don't deserve loot unless you put in an effort and doing LFR/Flex is like playing any typical campaign game on the easiest setting... not insulting you if that's what you prefer to do, but you willingly chose the easiest setting, setting yourself up for the least challenging events... and you then assume you deserve the same gear as others? Pft, you deserve badges at best. You want to put in little to no work, here's your little reward. If you want to do 25H, then here's your gear w/ high ilvl because you earned it.

    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by F4ulty View Post
    Only thing I will say is that warforged gear inflated the numbers more than they should have been, just like they did with hard mode gear in LK
    I think this is my main problem with the gear inflation of the expansion; you essentially triple your stats going from the first tier to the last, which was only two tiers more of content. The character progression feels really nice (I would disagree it's LFR heroes that are the only ones enjoying the immense power creep), but it does create a bit of a barrier for entry for people to be able to jump into.

    That being said, as others mentioned Burdens will give you moderately solid gear (personally I hate random enchant rolling), and even if LFR isn't your thing exactly it does function very well as a catch up mechanic. If you want to just get better at numbers (and that's what's completely holding you back), then obtaining the gear to up the numbers is easier now than it's ever been even with the gear inflation.

  14. #14
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    I don't mind the LFR/Flex crap but I really really hate Warforged/Thunderforged. They add nothing positive to the game IMO..just more gear inflation and a little carrot on a stick to artificially extent the raid tier.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Zka's Avatar
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    It's not the worst, but certainly retarded and harmful. 100% spot on except the exaggeration in the title

    Retired raider coming back for WoD.
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  16. #16
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    Don't act as if Warforged is an extra tier of gear / content. It's just a random chance to get more. If you get it, it's a nice bonus, but it's nothing to strive for and pass on items until the Warforged item drops.

  17. #17
    I may be seeing something weird here, but if you were in full KZ + Mag + Grull gear would guilds gladly take you in for Sunwell Plateau without knowing who you are?

    On another note, there are plenty of High End guilds actively recruiting now that they have cleared Heroic Content already. If you can write a good apply, show logs and have a good, serious talk with any decent Guild Leader / Recruiter they will see that you'll be worth the two weeks of being rushed in Heroic content to get gear upgrades.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    There's nothing wrong with tiers, there's just an issue with having tier gear for everyone setting. IMO, there should only be 2 tiers, one for reg and one for heroic. Flex/LFR should only award badges or valor points or w/e they currently use... You shouldn't get a single piece of loot and if you do, it should be entry level into the first tier of MoP. WoW needs to revert to the TBC days where gear isn't just handed out... unlike back then, you could use PvP gear, but now it wouldn't be viable due to PvP power... so this time around we wouldn't see people getting PvP gear... instead we'd see people doing the old raids and progress through each tier until they were finally at the last one.

    This is how I see it, you don't deserve loot unless you put in an effort and doing LFR/Flex is like playing any typical campaign game on the easiest setting... not insulting you if that's what you prefer to do, but you willingly chose the easiest setting, setting yourself up for the least challenging events... and you then assume you deserve the same gear as others? Pft, you deserve badges at best. You want to put in little to no work, here's your little reward. If you want to do 25H, then here's your gear w/ high ilvl because you earned it.
    Thanks for blogging your outdated POV on an MMO.

  19. #19
    What about actually making your own group with good people?
    I level my warrior to 90 and after couple of weeks i was running flex. People just wanna take there people with 530/540 ilvl so they can be sure they have done them before and can make solid dps/heal and tank properly. There is nothing bad with that and yeah it is kinda lame to have so many different types of gear but they too bad. If you really wanna run those flex or even normals just try harder or make own group. Crying here wont help you

  20. #20
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    Why would I set up my own group? Is dragging 9 other people into a dungeon to carry you your idea of a good time? This isn't a "wah I cant find a group" post, this is a "wah Blizzard has set up their gear treadmill to make my character absolutely useless even though he has, what should be, passable gear" post.

    In the past all I've had to do to get a group is say "Hey man I'm a little undergeared but I've read the fights and I have this, this, and this achievement from other patches..." and they take me. Or, like suggested, I just make my own group because I know I have the skills to play and lead a PUG raid. Now, its all irrelevant, because its mathematically impossible to do respectable numbers because of the absolutely insane power creep this expansion.

    And, yeah, it is 100% Blizzards fault. The only reason the game is like this is so scrubs can pick up new gear from LFR and see a power increase without ever learning how to play their class. The game has never been like this until Throne of Thunder.
    Maybe you just need to read a class guide and play better ? Cause the bolded part is not true.
    Or perhaps you're not utilizing all the gear up's available to you ?

    Leading your own normal pug, even if only for the first 4 bosses.
    Flex
    Timeless isle, burdens.
    LFR
    BoE gear.
    20% nerf to TOT in addition to crossrealm.
    Heroic scenario's.

    If you started this expansion doing 50k, you were not only doing low dps, you were not getting any ranks either, talking msv first week heroics.
    If you don't bother to replace a tier old weapon you shouldn't really complain about dps, read above for advice on how to get said weapon.

    I was doing flex first week of dinging on my last alt. 512 ilvl. Reset day of 2nd week i did 8/14 normal pug. 522 ilvl. Ended the week at 532.
    Sure, i bought all boe's and pushed it but its been the same for all my alts give or take a few ilvls depending on luck / rng drops.

    If you had the skilled you claimed, skipping a tier is still as easy. Just sayin'
    Last edited by santa666; 2014-01-06 at 08:51 PM.

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