Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,640
    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    You can't expect balance changes around 1500 bracket because the classes are not fully utilized.
    Why not? If a classes rotation or abilities are too convoluted in PvE, the class is overhauled, simplified. Why wouldn't we look at what the majority of players are capable of when balancing classes?
    Playing: WoW (11/14HC), BF3
    PC: i5 4670k @ 4.4GHz // GTX 780 // 16GB DDR3 // 750GB Samsung 840 EVO // 3x 27" 1440p
    Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why few engage in it. - H. Ford

  2. #22
    Pandaren Monk Darksoldierr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    1,791
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    1500 is literally where you /start/ MMR wise for arenas.
    Aka: They literally have no idea what they're doing.

    Also - Rogues are better than warriors.
    The only thing they don't have is sustained damage - and the absurd burst/cc they bring onto the field outshines warriors.
    It's obvious the people thinking warriors are currently better have never faced a decent rogue team. They will literally kill you in a bomb if you don't trinket from their own burst alone.

    Now pair that with a mage.

    inb4 "you're a warrior" - Warriors are stupidly strong and stupidly easy to play.
    Rogues are mages are in the uncanny valley.
    The difference is that rogue needs a mage to play with, to create the best opening.
    Warrior can literally play with anything, and because of better mobility and defensive CDs, has better synergy with everyone, specially with classes that can put out a decent pressure by themselves (mage, lock, good hunter, etc)
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  3. #23
    Titan apepi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Mostly harmless
    Posts
    11,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    The difference is that rogue needs a mage to play with, to create the best opening.
    Warrior can literally play with anything, and because of better mobility and defensive CDs, has better synergy with everyone, specially with classes that can put out a decent pressure by themselves (mage, lock, good hunter, etc)
    The only class I can not see warriors playing with is monk. They dr too much together.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    I've seen this touted tons yet I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how am SP can do anything against a warrior but lube up and ask him to be gentle.
    This is a two-fold problem. One is that Warrior's are designed to counter spriests. I can recall back in Cata when warriors were complete trash following the CS nerf with no buff to compensate, I could still guarantee myself a victory against a spriest. The other issue is with Shadow itself, it's just in a weak position right now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    The difference is that rogue needs a mage to play with, to create the best opening.
    Warrior can literally play with anything, and because of better mobility and defensive CDs, has better synergy with everyone, specially with classes that can put out a decent pressure by themselves (mage, lock, good hunter, etc)
    This is mostly true. However, I recall reading a thread and the conclusion was that while warriors advance into the higher ratings easier due to lower skill required to play, they also have a lower rating ceiling than a few of the other classes out there, like rogue, lock, mage, hunter and shaman.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    and what wrong with a 1.5k rated player replying tbh theres more people between 0-1.5k than there is a 2k rated + yet again the rating bashing comes in seriously its a game if u like to play for high ratings fine but dnt bash people who dont
    The problem is 1500 players don't know what they're doing. Lots of things can seem overpowered to 1500 players but in real play they aren't broken at all and are incredibly easy to deal with. It isn't bashing, it's just kind of how it is. There's a reason why WW Monks can 1v2 people at 1500 rating, but at 1800 ratings WW Monks have a harder time even with a good partner. It's just about knowing game mechanics and how to react to things, and when someone that doesn't fully understand PvP talks about PvP balance it's idiotic and a waste of everybody's time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    I've seen this touted tons yet I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how am SP can do anything against a warrior but lube up and ask him to be gentle.
    If you're playing the game without partners you're gonna have a bad time. Yes, Warriors beat SPriests 1v1, but so do Mages and Hunters and Rogues and Monks, and I'd wager a handful of other classes do too. If you're playing alone and trying to talk about balance just stop. Get your Rogue or Mage to help control the Warrior and you'll be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    You had me until you suggested that rogues are better than warriors currently. Warriors are far and away the best class right now.
    Rogues are significantly better at higher ratings. It's not even close. A skilled Rogue is far more useful to his team than a skilled Warrior, especially since the removal of Mass Spell Reflect pretty much (since you're forced into Safeguard now). Warriors have more comps than Rogues do without a doubt, but Rogue comps are significantly stronger. The best Warrior comp is what, KFC or War/Mage/Druid? But Rogue/Mage/Druid absolutely demolishes both of those because of how powerful Rogues are. Rogues are significantly harder to play than Warriors, and they run in less comps, but that doesn't make the class worse.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Another 1500 player making a post about PvP balance, shocking. Let's read through some things.

    Shadow Priests were absurdly overpowered for the first season or two of MoP, they get nerfed down, and people freak up instead of adapting. SPriests are still viable, just run SPriest/RSham/Rogue and you're set, though there are other comps as well. Boomkins are pretty meh, but Boomkin/Ele/HPriest works and Boomkin/Rogue/Hpriest works pretty well.

    Warriors are more than manageable, and far from the most overpowered class currently. Mages and Rogues are both significantly stronger, and Hunters are about equal to Warriors, a little less damage but an absurd amount of CC.

    Warriors aren't hard to deal with, every class has a way to survive against them.
    You sound arrogant and like some sad person who believes that his achievements/rating in wow gives them a superior view over others. I actually feel sorry for you.

  7. #27
    I agree with many posts above...i mean every calsse has some strong side that is better against X and less usefull against Y.

    There is just no reason why a single class should have strong dps, strong def, strong interrupts, stron mobility and that in many ways...

    Warrior has more abilities to remove some kind of cc that some classes even posses to use

  8. #28
    Rating =/= skill. Skill= Skill, so how about people step off their high horses, and listen to peoples arguments, rather than going "pff low rating, they can't possibly contribute anything of value"

  9. #29
    Scarab Lord b2121945's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    EUSSR
    Posts
    4,196
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Another 1500 player making a post about PvP balance, shocking. Let's read through some things.

    Shadow Priests were absurdly overpowered for the first season or two of MoP, they get nerfed down, and people freak up instead of adapting. SPriests are still viable, just run SPriest/RSham/Rogue and you're set, though there are other comps as well. Boomkins are pretty meh, but Boomkin/Ele/HPriest works and Boomkin/Rogue/Hpriest works pretty well.

    Warriors are more than manageable, and far from the most overpowered class currently. Mages and Rogues are both significantly stronger, and Hunters are about equal to Warriors, a little less damage but an absurd amount of CC.

    Warriors aren't hard to deal with, every class has a way to survive against them.
    Yes, spriests have to adapt, I mean they can spam SW:P all day if some warrior fotm reroll is tunneling them, because they can't cast a single spell, that'll do it.
    I mean, shadow priests can't be that bad, representation above 2200 in 3s clearly shows that. Noobs (yes, people above 2.2k are clearly noobs) just have to adapt. 1.6% is enough.
    And then, 17.8% for arms warriors. It surely isn't because arms warriors are that good.

    You know, one thing I've learned from people like you is this: if they tell me that I'm some <insert random number> rated noob, they're <insert random number>+50 at best.

  10. #30
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    9,610
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    From a PVE perspective, Shadow Priest ranked dead last in DPS.
    Sorry, but every PvE Priest I played with did competitive DPS and earned their spot on the Raid Team. They were not amazing, but certainly not sub-standard.

  11. #31
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Victory Road.
    Posts
    5,204
    Quote Originally Posted by Wazzada View Post
    Rating =/= skill. Skill= Skill, so how about people step off their high horses, and listen to peoples arguments, rather than going "pff low rating, they can't possibly contribute anything of value"
    If a player is skilled why are they in the 1500 bracket?

    Doesn't really make much sense..

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    If a player is skilled why are they in the 1500 bracket?

    Doesn't really make much sense..
    Teammates, especially in 3v3 a single skilled player won't pull the team too high. "I made 2,2k+" isn't quite right, the right thing to say is "i finally found two good teammates, thank god for that".

    I do however agree that low-rated people might be a bad source of advice. You see plenty of dumb shit even on 1,7+ , there is a issue with valuing high rating however:
    You don't know if the high-rated players got their rating legit. Worst case you end up listening to people even worse than those 1,5 players.

  13. #33
    My m8 plays warr and had always mmr around 1550. now he has 2s and 3s 1900. within 2-3 weeks rating change of 300-400. and its not cause of dedication/time, cause he is mainly raiding. So when he makes a post now he suddenly is skilled and is right about stuff cause he has almost 2k? Hmm ok

  14. #34
    Blizz originally stated in some Blue Post that they want Arms to get a lot closer to Fury for PvE. I'm dying to see the change, since I know, If they buff Arms' Dmg there's probably gonna be a big outcry to Blizzard from the PvP Community. Though I would love to see it. I'm also dying to see the change because I love Arms, but sadly it's not that viable for Progress Raiding, when it comes to Single-Target DPS. If they screw PvP for the advantage of the Larger Group (PvE) I'd be very very glad. It's not like I don't play PvP, but it's just something to do as a side-thing for me. Still got to 2,2k and would hold that rating without "OP LolZ Warrior".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    If a player is skilled why are they in the 1500 bracket?

    Doesn't really make much sense..
    Makes a lot of sense if you're not some shitty PvP Elitist Dumbass who thinks that all PvE'ers are shit. Not saying you are. It's just not the way were it doesn't make sense. Players not being interested in PvP doesn't mean they are shit most of the time. I play like once a Month with some friends and I know I could do better than 2.2k. It's just that I for example don't want to be part of today's PvP Community. It's where most of the Toxic Players come from, because everyone thinks he's got a higher E-peen. That's my honest oppinion. PvP just is not what I play WoW for and it's only a Major thing because there are some Players doing it for real, if you ask me. Enough to make some money off it. Back in the day I remember people doing PvP because the Warlords gear was fucking awesome in PvE too, in some cases. High Warlords 2h's, anyone?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PPN View Post
    My m8 plays warr and had always mmr around 1550. now he has 2s and 3s 1900. within 2-3 weeks rating change of 300-400. and its not cause of dedication/time, cause he is mainly raiding. So when he makes a post now he suddenly is skilled and is right about stuff cause he has almost 2k? Hmm ok
    In that case I don't see him getting any higher than 2k at all. If you really want to play Warr "right" in Arena, holding your pressure up for most of the time, it takes far more than just some PvE/Raiding experience with your class. Which he likely lacks if he only reached 1550 before the big "Warrior Inflation".

  15. #35
    TBH as long as there are booms and Spriest above 2,2k rating means they are viable, only hard to master. But if you see a warrior or mage in 90% of teams, that means something is wrong.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by lockdown1 View Post
    You sound arrogant and like some sad person who believes that his achievements/rating in wow gives them a superior view over others. I actually feel sorry for you.
    You... What? I'm tired of bad players talking about balance. Your opinion *doesn't matter* simple as that. Things are "overpowered" because bad players don't want to learn how to counter it, even if it's not that strong in reality. It isn't arrogant, I'm just really really tired of people complaining about things.

    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    Yes, spriests have to adapt, I mean they can spam SW:P all day if some warrior fotm reroll is tunneling them, because they can't cast a single spell, that'll do it.
    I mean, shadow priests can't be that bad, representation above 2200 in 3s clearly shows that. Noobs (yes, people above 2.2k are clearly noobs) just have to adapt. 1.6% is enough.
    And then, 17.8% for arms warriors. It surely isn't because arms warriors are that good.

    You know, one thing I've learned from people like you is this: if they tell me that I'm some <insert random number> rated noob, they're <insert random number>+50 at best.
    If you're getting tunneled all day your partners aren't doing their job. If you're playing alone of course you're gonna lose.

    Representation means far less than you think. Are Spriests bad right now? Eh, yeah probably, they aren't very good, but they aren't unplayable. But the thing about representation, is it has less to do with the strength of one class and more to do with the synergy between classes. Warriors, for example, can run Warrior/Hunter/Healer, Warrior/Mage/Healer, Warrior/Enh/Healer, Warrior/Lock/Healer, etc. They have a lot of comps, is my point. SPriests, on the other hand, can run SPriest/Rogue/Shaman and Spriest/WWMonk/Shaman (sort of). So, which is going to have more representation? The class with tons of comps, or the class with only one or two? The answer is obvious. And just because a class synergizes with lots of things doesn't mean it's strong, just means it works well in lots of comps.

    Mage/Rogue/RDruid is the strongest comp in 3s right now, nothing else is even remotely close, but yet the ladder isn't full of Rogues. Why? Because Rogues can't run many other comps, they're incredibly strong right now, stronger than almost anything else, yet there's only a couple of comps Rogues work in because of the way the class works. So trying to use representation to talk about balance is foolish, because the two are only loosely related at best.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    You... What? I'm tired of bad players talking about balance. Your opinion *doesn't matter* simple as that. Things are "overpowered" because bad players don't want to learn how to counter it, even if it's not that strong in reality. It isn't arrogant, I'm just really really tired of people complaining about things.
    Honestly, whether you agree with how Rucati put it or not, this is the truth. You are simply not in a position to complain about balance in a game where even if everything was balanced, your skill would hold you back ("you" is no one in particular, just in a general sense). One honestly can't come up with a reasonable and logical argument as to why this shouldn't be true. If you balanced everything around the average player, can you imagine how OP some classes would become in the hands of the great players?

    Warriors are a great example of this. Before Cataclysm, and even into Cataclysm a bit, playing a warrior required quite a bit of skill to play at maximum potential. Blizzard listened to the average players on this one (IMO), because they made warriors that much more accessible to a player of mediocre skill.

    Now warriors are possibly one of the easiest classes to pick up and play well in a PvP environment and the majority of the community (read, mostly average players) are up in arms (lol) over arms warriors.

    This may or may not be as a result of listening to the average player, but it is a great example of what would happen with other classes if Blizzard began to design around average player flaws.

  18. #38
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    64
    While Blizzard don't have competitors on organized PvP scene you will face the same shit every season: some spec will always be on top, some will always suck. Why does it happen? Because they want ppl to level new classes on different servers, means stay in-game as much as possible. Pure business, nothing personal. How to deal with it? Dlete your account and make Blizzrad know why you do it. But you won't do this. So its dead end, get ready to have new classes-specs rule in WoD, cause I don't think TeS online will bring anything intresting in PvP

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by nightstalkerr View Post
    TBH as long as there are booms and Spriest above 2,2k rating means they are viable, only hard to master. But if you see a warrior or mage in 90% of teams, that means something is wrong.
    Being able to play with certain classes that have gotten glad, and can carry easily doesnt mean a class is viable.
    sorry

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Another 1500 player making a post about PvP balance, shocking. Let's read through some things.

    Shadow Priests were absurdly overpowered for the first season or two of MoP, they get nerfed down, and people freak up instead of adapting. SPriests are still viable, just run SPriest/RSham/Rogue and you're set, though there are other comps as well. Boomkins are pretty meh, but Boomkin/Ele/HPriest works and Boomkin/Rogue/Hpriest works pretty well.

    Warriors are more than manageable, and far from the most overpowered class currently. Mages and Rogues are both significantly stronger, and Hunters are about equal to Warriors, a little less damage but an absurd amount of CC.

    Warriors aren't hard to deal with, every class has a way to survive against them.
    I am a 1750 rated played but I understand balance probably just as good as you do. Why because I still play the game as much as you I know mechanics and I know what works. Rating means absolutely nothing when it comes to first time meeting someone. I could easily break 2.2k if I found another competent partner that doesn't piss me off. Seriously elitism is annoying as fuck.

    In Bold I agree with in Italic I disagree and ill explain why I disagree.

    Warriors are indeed more manageable and easier to kill then say a very good Frost mage or rogue. The problem is the skill cap to play warrior decently well is absurdly low. Not only that they can run with almost any comp and get 2k rating fairly easy. Frost mage you atleast have to time up Alter time with your CD's correctly and hope for the crits. Warrior GG SWIFTYYOLOONESHOT macro initiated with wreckstorm on a healer and its pretty much good game. Rogues I really have no say because I don't play them and never have but from friends who have played and competed in 2400+ brackets they do require a form of skill. Hunters equal to warriors yea thats about right in fact I will even go to say with the right comp hunters are more brutal then warriros.

    On to your warriors are not hard to deal with, every class has a way to survive against them. Please give me a talent/spell/glyph from the 10 other classes that helps them easily escape a warrior or "deal" with it. Then come back to me.

    Elitism is not a pretty sight. Especially PvP elitism when all it takes is 500k gold and a team on Tich to carry you to Grand Marshall or Gladiator

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    If a player is skilled why are they in the 1500 bracket?

    Doesn't really make much sense..
    I have been stuck in and around the 1800 bracket on my Resto Shaman this whole season. Why because I get shit for partners I have played with and against numerous people during the start of the season that are now R1's I have beaten numerous R1's in 2s and 3s and I have played numerous times with people who are 2200 rated play. The reason why im so low in rating is A I cap my friends because im a good guy. B consistent partners this seasons is extremely hard to find. I had one but he was not the best of PvP'ers so I dropped him. C In case you don't know 2200=2500 of prior seasons 2k=2300 1800=2k 1500=1700. We are going against 10x the amount of PvPers this season since last. Plus Gladiator as of now is about 2.2k rating in 3s and less if im not mistaken in 5s.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •