1. #2041
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    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooGaming View Post
    Men should have the right to "Abandon" the Child, in such that they're not entitled to anything regarding the child. The Mother, if she wishes, can allow the Father to meet and see the child as often as she likes, but all Guardianship is stripped from the Father.

    The issue here is that Condoms do break, no contraception is 100% effective (Except Crocs), and I do know a few unlucky guys who've been dragged into a life they didn't want, because their partner lied or cheated them into having a Child.

    Neither Men or Women should be forced to have a Child they don't want. Obviously the Women has to deal with more of the issues directly, but ignoring the financial implications on the Father (and Mother, to be clear) is unfair, and claiming that Men have no right to that choice is just as sexist as saying Women are not entitled to any choice.
    Let me present to you the concept of responsibility.

    Your actions have consequences. When you choose an action, you choose the consequences of that action including any entailed risks, and you are responsible for the outcome of your choice. No-one is ignorant of the possibility of pregnancy as a consequence of sexual intercourse in this day and age, thus you make the choice on an informed basis, and you are responsible for the outcome.

    Trying to avoid your responsibility hurts the child, who did not ask to be born. As such, trying to have the fun and dodging the entailed responsibility when and if it arrives, is nothing but a selfish and immoral choice, which you are thankfully not allowed to make.

  2. #2042
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    Of course you did. There is no other logical explanation for you posting that image as a reply to that sentence. You saw 'screwing over', then posted an example of the current legislation being able to be abused, and pressed the post button without even hearing the whoooooosh sound above your head.
    Yes, the current legislation can be abused in some odd cases. Unfortunately, the alternative proposed, while fixing these odd cases of abuses for the most part, also leads to even more trouble, except this time it doesn't just concern monetary issues but civil rights as well. In your own words, 'how hard is it to understand ?'

    Weren't you the one making the thread about stupidity annoying you? Maybe if you actually tried to read/listen more carefully you could avoid yourself some anger issues.
    Which civil rights? Of the fetus, which has none?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Let me present to you the concept of responsibility.

    Your actions have consequences. When you choose an action, you choose the consequences of that action including any entailed risks, and you are responsible for the outcome of your choice. No-one is ignorant of the possibility of pregnancy as a consequence of sexual intercourse in this day and age, thus you make the choice on an informed basis, and you are responsible for the outcome.

    Trying to avoid your responsibility hurts the child, who did not ask to be born. As such, trying to have the fun and dodging the entailed responsibility when and if it arrives, is nothing but a selfish and immoral choice, which you are thankfully not allowed to make.
    We are talking about a fetus, not a child.

  3. #2043
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyana View Post
    I laughed and then wondered what the flip side would be...



    Edit: image was a little large...
    Last edited by cyndallis; 2014-01-05 at 01:13 PM.

  4. #2044
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    You giggled not over the example but about the content.
    Glad to have you deciding for me.

    Yeah, no. It was crude humor, but nonetheless meant as humor, not an attack. I'm sorry of your delicate sensibilities are that easily jostled.

    Oh, and the above poster reversed it. That's funny too. What's the problem again? I've always laughed at internet guides for RL stuff.

    And the example was funny, the subject is still taken seriously.

  5. #2045
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Your actions have consequences. When you choose an action, you choose the consequences.
    You had your body autonomy while opening your legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Yeah, no. It was crude humor, but nonetheless meant as humor, not an attack. I'm sorry of your delicate sensibilities are that easily jostled.
    Iam not sensible or offended its just revealing that you would laugh about people tricking others into parentage as long as the one tricked is male.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deyana View Post
    Not sure what's the deal then, IMO we're not being conservative, also my own views got nothing to do with the country I live in, I use my own head, not just following the ones around me.
    Social background has influence I try to not get influenced by it as far as I can but I have no doubt that I would be a religious nut when I would be born in Saudi Arabia instead.

    The education level of non native english speakers is probably higher than the mean that makes the evaluation harder.
    And the conservative thing is relative anyway.
    Last edited by mmocd79acbf389; 2014-01-05 at 01:20 PM.

  6. #2046
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Let me present to you the concept of responsibility.

    Your actions have consequences. When you choose an action, you choose the consequences of that action including any entailed risks, and you are responsible for the outcome of your choice. No-one is ignorant of the possibility of pregnancy as a consequence of sexual intercourse in this day and age, thus you make the choice on an informed basis, and you are responsible for the outcome.

    Trying to avoid your responsibility hurts the child, who did not ask to be born. As such, trying to have the fun and dodging the entailed responsibility when and if it arrives, is nothing but a selfish and immoral choice, which you are thankfully not allowed to make.
    So you're saying that people should only have sex, on the basis that they accept they're wanting / risk having a child? Nonsense. We're not in 1739, we don't need to have children to work the field, kids these days are a choice, not a requirement, and as such sex has changed from passing on the genes and producing enough kids to ensure you can feed the family, to being about fun and passion.

    If you disagree, fine, but sex isn't about kids. It is biologically, but we're no longer ruled by biological requirements. We're a species that is beyond that now.

  7. #2047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post


    We are talking about a fetus, not a child.
    No, we are not. The concept raised in this thread is that of the father being allowed to refuse any responsibility once the child has been born ( a "legal abortion"), not the father being allowed to demand an abortion pre-birth. The latter would be entirely disgusting, and would be tantamount to the woman being refused control over her body. Luckily, as I said, that is not the subject being discussed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooGaming View Post
    So you're saying that people should only have sex, on the basis that they accept they're wanting / risk having a child? Nonsense. We're not in 1739, we don't need to have children to work the field, kids these days are a choice, not a requirement, and as such sex has changed from passing on the genes and producing enough kids to ensure you can feed the family, to being about fun and passion.

    If you disagree, fine, but sex isn't about kids. It is biologically, but we're no longer ruled by biological requirements. We're a species that is beyond that now.
    Don't misrepresent my position.

    You know pregancy is a risk entailed in sex. If you chose to have sex (especially unprotected) you accept the risk of having a pregnancy result. You are more than welcome to have recreational sex, but you cannot refuse the responsibility entailed should it end in a pregnancy, since you knew the risk.

  8. #2048
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    You had your body autonomy while opening your legs.


    Iam not sensible or offended its just revealing that you would laugh about people tricking others into parentage as long as the one tricked is male.
    It takes a predator and a prey. The prey is never absolutely helpless. Unless you're implying that men are weak or intellectually underdevoped enough to smell foul play.

    It goes the other way too.

  9. #2049
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Don't misrepresent my position.

    You know pregancy is a risk entailed in sex. If you chose to have sex (especially unprotected) you accept the risk of having a pregnancy result. You are more than welcome to have recreational sex, but you cannot refuse the responsibility entailed should it end in a pregnancy, since you knew the risk.
    I fail to see your point. You know the risks of getting in your car, you might get in a car accident, you know the risks of using a knife to open a box, you might slice your finger off.

    The point is, just because you had a child doesn't mean you wanted it. What about all those men who are lured into having a child, or the condom breaks? Should those people who were having sex for recreational purposes be abused by this system and held accountable for a child they never wanted, for 18 years?

  10. #2050
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    If you chose to have sex (especially unprotected) you accept the risk of having a pregnancy result. You are more than welcome to have recreational sex, but you cannot refuse the responsibility entailed should it end in a pregnancy, since you knew the risk.
    Pregnancy doesn't mean a child. Pregnancy means a fetus. If one side decides to let this fetus grow into a child, it's her responsibility, since she made the choice.

  11. #2051
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    It takes a predator and a prey. The prey is never absolutely helpless. Unless you're implying that men are weak or intellectually underdevoped enough to smell foul play.

    It goes the other way too.
    The liar is always worse

    And please be carefull to not tripp over those double standards while you paddle back.

  12. #2052
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    That has to be one of the most stupid things I've read in this thread.
    Maybe you're ignorant or just don't care, but you can buy fake brands of birth control. Hell these days you can buy positive birth control tests!

  13. #2053
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by igniter View Post
    Maybe you're ignorant or just don't care, but you can buy fake brands of birth control. Hell these days you can buy positive birth control tests!
    So what? What is your point?

  14. #2054
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    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooGaming View Post
    I fail to see your point. You know the risks of getting in your car, you might get in a car accident, you know the risks of using a knife to open a box, you might slice your finger off.
    And if I do that, it will be because of my actions.

    The point is, just because you had a child doesn't mean you wanted it. What about all those men who are lured into having a child, or the condom breaks? Should those people who were having sex for recreational purposes be abused by this system and held accountable for a child they never wanted, for 18 years?
    To read this forum, you would think that the world is full of wily women who are all trying to entrap the poor, uninformed and incapable men. I regret to inform you that this is not the case.

    Responsibility means that you are responsible for the results of your actions. You know that no contraceptives works 100% of the time, you know that intercourse may result in a pregnancy. Knowing that, you make an informed choice and thus you are responsible for the outcome. So yes, you should be held accountable for the child whether you wanted it or not, because your actions created it.

  15. #2055
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    To read this forum, you would think that the world is full of wily women who are all trying to entrap the poor, uninformed and incapable men. I regret to inform you that this is not the case.
    Don't cherrypick where you apply abuse as the default assumption if you do it based on gender well.............

    Abortion? Only to get rid of children.
    Legal Abortion? Only to get rid of children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    So yes, you should be held accountable for the child whether you wanted it or not, because your actions created it.
    You know that you debate against abortion and pro victim blaming?
    I hope that is clear.

    If you drag fairness out of the closet you lose.
    You can sell it as necessary Evil but not as fairness.

    The only thing that demands responsibility is control over the situation there is nothing to debate.
    Last edited by mmocd79acbf389; 2014-01-05 at 01:31 PM.

  16. #2056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    Don't cherrypick where you apply abuse as the default assumption if you do it based on gender well.............

    Abortion? Only to get rid of children.
    Legal Abortion? Only to get rid of children.
    A fetus is still not a child.

  17. #2057
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deyana View Post
    Pregnancy doesn't mean a child. Pregnancy means a fetus. If one side decides to let this fetus grow into a child, it's her responsibility, since she made the choice.
    No. Women carry the risk of the pregnancy alone, thus they are the only one who have the right to end it. Men and women are however equally responsible for taking precautions if they do not want a child, and both know the risks entailed, so neither is absolved of responsibility (economical or otherwise) when and if a child is born.

  18. #2058
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    The liar is always worse

    And please be carefull to not tripp over those double standards while you paddle back.
    Mhm, I'm a liar because you fail to see nuance. Arright.

    What double standards? You failed to read what I said in my recent post?

  19. #2059
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    Don't cherrypick where you apply abuse as the default assumption if you do it based on gender well.............
    Informing someone that their idea of how the world works is wrong is not "cherrypicking".

    Abortion? Only to get rid of children.
    Legal Abortion? Only to get rid of children.
    "legal abortion" does not get rid of the children.

  20. #2060
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    Either the mother's (by forcing her to get an abortion that goes against her original choice, that was made without external influence), or the child's (who will inevitably get born if she doesn't)

    Pick your poison.
    As opposed to her having to make a decision under external support? There is no external pressure in this context. There is only a withdrawal of external financial support which she should never have been entitled to in the first place, because expecting fatherhood of a random guy you hook up with is the height of folly. There is no proverbial poison here.

    Brb while I get off to some gag-job pornos because my SO pressured me into it by not having given me a surprise blowjob in a while.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    "legal abortion" does not get rid of the children.
    Children are a red-herring. Their needs can be taken care of without involving an unwilling party.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    In fact, I quite like it and I would consider it an abuse to inflict my child with a foreskin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    You don't appear to understand how it works...they don't stick it on when the baby is born.

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