1. #2001
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    No, he's respomsible for the child, along with the woman
    He is not he didn't have a say. The only way to get responsibility is to have power over the situation.

    Its her decision alone its her responsibility alone. Can he opt in? Yes he can. Is it the right and sensible thing to do? Yes again but to make it mandatory by law well that is as asinine as blaming rape victims.

    You can call it a necessary evil at best. Its utterly unfair.

    It gets absolutely ridiciulous when you factor in that woman can even opt out with a simple lie even after pregnancy.
    Last edited by mmocd79acbf389; 2014-01-05 at 11:53 AM.

  2. #2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    Tell me when woman need a men to raise children.
    it is actually the other way round. tell me when women can raise children without a man.
    children of single mothers are the most likely to have or cause problems.

  3. #2003
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    No, I am arguing that BOTH genders have that option.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Pregnancy isn't mandatory.
    Neither is unsafe sex.

    Both genders do not have the right to pregnancy decisions because it is SOLELY affecting the woman, and it's HER bodily autonomy.

    Rights:
    Sex - both. They both have responsibility for what happens or doesn't happen during this event.
    Pregnancy - ONLY the woman is pregnant, her bodily autonomy, she decides, and he has no right to decide over her and her body.
    Child - Both parents decide and share the burden of caring for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    He is not he didn't have a say. The only way to get responsibility is to have power over the situation.

    Its her decision alone its her responsibility alone. Can he opt it yes he can is it the right and sensible thing to do yes again but to make it mandatory well that is as asinine as blaming rape victims.

    You can call it a necessary evil at best. Its utterly unfair.
    No he can't. And morally, and logically, he shouldn't be able to opt out of helping to care for it at least minimally after it's born, against his wish or not. Tough luck, but both him and her had equal say in how the sex that lead to the pregnancy would go down. They weren't protected, he didn't cover his own base, jumped the gun, and takes the consequence. That's how life works, get used to it.

  4. #2004
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    No he can't. And morally, and logically, he shouldn't be able to opt out of helping to care for it at least minimally after it's born,
    Its out of your control you have no responsibility thats the point there is no moral obligation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Tough luck, but both him and her had equal say in how the sex that lead to the pregnancy would go down.
    Tough luck not wearing a Burka you made your choice there.

    Bonus points if you didn't ask your Husband if hes fine with you wearing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilbergrape View Post
    it is actually the other way round. tell me when women can raise children without a man.
    children of single mothers are the most likely to have or cause problems.
    Tell that feminist.
    Last edited by mmocd79acbf389; 2014-01-05 at 12:00 PM.

  5. #2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    Its out of your control you have no responsibility that the point there is no moral obligation for charity and its nowhere codified in law.
    Charity? What charity? You're paying to help ensure the quality for the child. Children are expensive. In Denmark, like the OP, the isue is less then say America, were it's most definately justified to demand the father to pay. The only one who can legally waive that right is the mother, and that does happen around here (I'm from Denmark) that doesn't remove the man's decision to have unprotected sex with an untrustworthy partner.

    Tough luck not wearing a Burka you made your choice there.


    Tell that to feminist.
    I lol'd. What does that even mean...

  6. #2006
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    The only one who can legally waive that right is the mother.
    Bullshit law. Codified sexism.

    Chivalry is the nice dressed brother of chauvinism who beats his wife without leaving marks.

  7. #2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Neither is unsafe sex.

    Both genders do not have the right to pregnancy decisions because it is SOLELY affecting the woman, and it's HER bodily autonomy.

    Rights:
    Sex - both. They both have responsibility for what happens or doesn't happen during this event.
    Pregnancy - ONLY the woman is pregnant, her bodily autonomy, she decides, and he has no right to decide over her and her body.
    Child - Both parents decide and share the burden of caring for it.
    No, only one parent gets to decide. The female has full control. Thats what we want to change.

  8. #2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    No, only one parent gets to decide. The female has full control. Thats what we want to change.
    Learn how to become pregnant then. When that happens, you can have the sole right to decide, until then, just employ proper thought processes. Tall order maybe, but you can do it...

    Bullshit law. Codified sexism.
    For irresponsible, vindictive men, yes.

  9. #2009
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    For irresponsible, vindictive men, yes.
    Safe haven law? Abortion? Not criminalising to lie about the existance of a father?

    Thats the absolute minimum that you have to do to make it remotely fair.
    Make it highly criminal if a woman lies about not knowing the father or talking international equally as criminal as not paying alimony.

    It doesnt matter how hard it is to prove.
    You have to first admit that it is wrong at all and equaly as morally flawed as not paying alimony if not more.

    Responsibility is absolutely stacked on the male side while control is absolutely stacked on the female side.
    Socially not so much but legally.
    Last edited by mmocd79acbf389; 2014-01-05 at 12:09 PM.

  10. #2010
    pregnancy is a complex matter. it means life. and people want a say about that life.
    in the end all want to have a say. the fetus, the women, the man.

    if not, it means oppression of the others involved. nothing else.

    there are people that say, the fetus alone has the say.
    there are people that say, the women alone has the say.
    there are people that say, the man alone has the say.

    and there are people that say, all have a say.

    in the end, there will be a temporary solution, but it will never be one where everyone agrees that it is the correct solution.
    it is going to stay messy (as reproduction is), and best is, for everyone, to have sane people making sane decisions, as otherwise, there will be a mess to deal with that cannot be dealt with in a reasonable manner.

  11. #2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Calzaeth View Post
    I wouldn't oppose such an option, but my thinking is that if you don't want a kid, then don't have unprotected sex.

    It is gloriously simple, no?
    Unless a man gets vasectomy done, no method of contraception is 100% safe.

  12. #2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Learn how to become pregnant then. When that happens, you can have the sole right to decide, until then, just employ proper thought processes. Tall order maybe, but you can do it...
    Or, fight to change bullshit, unfair laws.

  13. #2013
    No, only one parent gets to decide. The female has full control. Thats what we want to change.
    By giving the male full control and the option, to screw women over with no consequences. Great. Really great.

  14. #2014
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    By giving the male full control and the option, to screw women over with no consequences. Great. Really great.
    So its about woman and not children well thats the core that I assume all of the time.

    If you want to handicap males for not having the same sexual reproduction costs you are absolutely ignorant.

  15. #2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    Safe haven law? Abortion? Not criminalising to lie about the existance of a father?

    Thats the absolute minimum that you have to do to make it remotely fair.
    Make it highly criminal if a woman lies about not knowing the father or talking international equally as criminal as not paying alimony.

    It doesnt matter how hard it is to prove.
    You have to first admit that it is wrong at all and equaly as morally flawed as not paying alimony if not more.

    Responsibility is absolutely stacked on the male side while control is absolutely stacked on the female side.
    Socially not so much but legally.
    Go make some lawsuits against biology then. Pregnancy is sexist, that ain't nobody's fault. Your responsibility is to avoid getting anyone pregnant, and it's really simple and easy if just 1 partner has ground rules that is not to be changed, unless it's exceptional circumstances.

    You get her pregnant, you screwed, figuratively speaking, and it's just as much your fault as it is hers, own up to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Or, fight to change bullshit, unfair laws.
    How is it unfair? (look above)

  16. #2016
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    You get her pregnant, you screwed, figuratively speaking, and it's just as much your fault as it is hers, own up to it.
    Maybe people deserve getting raped for wearing skimpy clothes too.
    Its equaly your fault even if your husband allowed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Go make some lawsuits against biology then. Pregnancy is sexist, that ain't nobody's fault.
    Pregnancy stops after 9 month. Its not sexist.

    Its sexist when you try to tax men for not having the same reproduction costs.
    Woman can opt out after conception, during pregnancy and afterwards without any legal consequences.
    Last edited by mmocd79acbf389; 2014-01-05 at 12:16 PM.

  17. #2017
    What if I got a woman's free given eggs, and inseminated them and implanted them in a surrogate mother. If the woman decided she didn't want the child but I did, would she be on the hook for child support?

    Just thought up that crazy scenario. I have no idea.

  18. #2018
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    Maybe people deserve getting raped for wearing skimpy clothes too.
    Its equaly your fault even if your husband allowed it.
    Dress doesn't affect being raped or not. And there's that vindictiveness I was talking about, you're slipping.

  19. #2019
    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    So its about woman and not children well thats the core that I assume all of the time.
    But this is, what the entire nonsense is all about. It is about guys, who don't want to bear the consequences for their actions. Those guys now want the option, to have revenge on women.

  20. #2020
    Deleted
    Having sex with the chance for unwanted pregnancy = both chose it, both share the responsibility (and the abortion bill).
    Letting that pregnancy evolve to a child = just woman can choose it, so she gets the full responsibility.
    Is it that hard to understand?

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