Different view on item squish and old content

[khallthas]

Don't worry, I'll try not to make this the same thread I've seen about 100 times about how old content will be harder to solo with the squish, I am well aware that blizz promises to make it as similar as possible by scaling everything down appropriately.

However, what made soloing level 80 content at 85, or 85 content at 90 so easy was that we were exponentially more powerful, nearly increasing our health and damage by about 5 times that of the previous expac. With the squish in place, I would assume blizz would not want us to go back to our current HP/dmg we have now in MoP, so I expect a small, by steady increase with every level. Maybe twice the health and damage at level 100 than we WILL have at 90 AFTER the squish.

My whole point is this.. the reason why soloing old content is so easy now is because we have literally 100 times the health pool and damage as we did at level 60. Will the item squish make soloing level 90 content much harder at level 100 due to small increases in dmg/HP??

[Levaustian]

From what I read, they're just pushing where the linear growth in power ends (which was 60) to a higher level (possibly around 85). After that, exponential growth takes over again.

Their choice after this is to either keep increasing the final level of linear growth each expansion or wait until it becomes an issue again.

[khallthas]

From what I read, they're just pushing where the linear growth in power ends (which was 60) to a higher level (possibly around 85). After that, exponential growth takes over again.

Their choice after this is to either keep increasing the final level of linear growth each expansion or wait until it becomes an issue again.

Ahh.. so we will still see an exponential increase from 90 -> 100 the same we saw with 85 -> 90? Then just re-squish if they feel it is needed? My concern is that I would still need 4-5 people to clear out level 90 10 mans and about 10-12 people to clear 25 mans for mounts and such.

[Deleted]

There will still be exponential growth in WoD. They just want to smooth out the way our power increased in past expansions.

[Levaustian]

Here's the source: https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...89824296398848

My concern is that I would still need 4-5 people to clear out level 90 10 mans and about 10-12 people to clear 25 mans for mounts and such.

Probably not, I'd imagine it would be similar to cata content at 90
(depending on whether or not the jump from 90-100 is the same as 85-90, if it's like 80-90, then wotlk at 90).

[khallthas]

Thanks for the reassurance guys!

[Srg56]

Don't worry, I'll try not to make this the same thread I've seen about 100 times about how old content will be harder to solo with the squish, I am well aware that blizz promises to make it as similar as possible by scaling everything down appropriately.

However, what made soloing level 80 content at 85, or 85 content at 90 so easy was that we were exponentially more powerful, nearly increasing our health and damage by about 5 times that of the previous expac. With the squish in place, I would assume blizz would not want us to go back to our current HP/dmg we have now in MoP, so I expect a small, by steady increase with every level. Maybe twice the health and damage at level 100 than we WILL have at 90 AFTER the squish.

My whole point is this.. the reason why soloing old content is so easy now is because we have literally 100 times the health pool and damage as we did at level 60. Will the item squish make soloing level 90 content much harder at level 100 due to small increases in dmg/HP??

You do make a good point. And if they would be doing only that, meaning only reducing our hp/damage, it would indeed make it so much harder to kill bosses in older raid content, however they stated that they will be balancing old content in such a way that our ability to solo it would not be impeded. Basically, they're nerfing old content by a huge chunk also.

[Tirilka]

Imagine it like this: they will nerf old raids exponentially too, so in the end, relative boss/player power will remain the same.

[khallthas]

Srg56 and Tirilka

Nah, I understand that EVERYONE'S HP will decrease, not just ours, my question was that it was so much easier to solo old content because we were exponentially (about five times the HP/dmg as last expansion) stronger. I didn't know if they would keep level 90-100 linear, meaning only increase our HP slightly like they would be doing for lower levels making level 90 content close to what level 100 content would be if that makes sense.

So if that were true, soloing 90 content at 100 would be very difficult, but a few people cleared that misunderstanding I had.

[BrerBear]

Imagine it like this: they will nerf old raids exponentially too, so in the end, relative boss/player power will remain the same.

Yes, but that's not the issue.
The math you described only explains how same-level content difficulty will remain unaffected after a squish. It does not address the gap between higher and lower levels which allows soloing to work. That differential gap is exactly what is being reduced by switching from exponential to linear increases post-60.

I get that Blizzard is saying that soloing is going to be preserved, but I wish they would just come out and say how they are going to preserve it. That they haven't explained how more than six months later leads me to believe they just don't know yet.

[Kuja]

They need to buff player power massively, but maybe less so if the level increase is 10 due to the increased hit rating needed. Not sure how PVP is affected tho.

Otherwise if a heroic ilvl MOP raider went into a WOD raid, he would be only half as good as an equally skilled player with full WOD raid gear on, almost eliminating the need to gear up if it's a casual non-heroic guild. And would still possibly be many times better than your average "donald" in a raid.

The ILVl also needs to jump noticeably between content patches or one could skip a tier completely, as the changes in performance would not be noticeable otherwise. As there's also many different variants of each item (LFR, Normal, Mythic... or something similar D, it creates even a bigger increase.

[TheWindWalker]

I get that Blizzard is saying that soloing is going to be preserved, but I wish they would just come out and say how they are going to preserve it. That they haven't explained how more than six months later leads me to believe they just don't know yet.

The closest thing to a mechanic we've heard is "probably a buff upon entering the instance." Otherwise it's just the same "if it takes you 30 seconds to kill Onyxia at 90, we'll try and make it the same after 6.0."

[BrerBear]

The closest thing to a mechanic we've heard is "probably a buff upon entering the instance." Otherwise it's just the same "if it takes you 30 seconds to kill Onyxia at 90, we'll try and make it the same after 6.0."

An instance buff would be an awkward way to handle it, as it wouldn't affect world bosses or mobs. World mobs might not seem important, but it would be annoying for things like rep farming out in the world.

The best idea I can come up with is:
1) Remove the concept of a "Skull level" raid boss. The idea of a boss which dynamically changes its level for the sake of calculations doesn't really seem necessary anymore. So, for example, Ragnaros would be level 63 instead of "skull level". This wouldn't fix the problem itself, but would allow for part 2.
2) Allow players to obtain a buff which increases their power exponentially against lower level enemies. As in, the higher level difference between you and the mob, the more damage you do against them and the less damage you take from them. Like the the normal level differential, but amped up. It could come from an item, a spell, whatever. That would also allow it to be turned off.

Whatever they come up with, I hope it isn't clunky.