Women in Combat, One mans opinion

[derpkitteh]

Standards shouldn't be lowered but women aren't mentally incapable of serving in combat roles.


I think the perfect score for women's pull-ups is 8 vs. 20 for men. I think they only have to do a 15 second arm hang now.

are pull-ups really so hard for people? i've always been able to do like 12 or more without a problem, and i'm 98lbs.

but yeah, i think women should have to meet every standard a man can if they want to get in. and feel like a fucking champ for probably making future drafts include females too, jerks... >.>

[Windfury]

On the 3 pullups that nearly half of the women failed, the issue I see there isn't one of ability, it's of raw, unbridled laziness and entitlement. That's a very, very easy task that they knew they were going to have to perform and they didn't bother to prepare for some reason.

Yeah, I'm not super fit, but I'm positive I could do 3+ pull ups, idek how it's possible to not be able to do that.

And yes, as everyone rational will say set some relevant objective criteria and pass people of either gender that meet it.

I sincerely hope the same people complaining about women ruining the military aren't the same people who also complain that men do the larger share of dangerous jobs/suffer more workplace deaths. Somehow I suspect they may be though ^.^

[Deleted]

Uninteresting read. I disagree with pretty much everything in that rant.

"Here’s a funny thought: if women can fight in combat roles, then all-male conscription must assuredly be unconstitutional."

i'm 98lbs.

Thats alot

and feel like a fucking champ for probably making future drafts include females too, jerks... >.>

That would be stupid but fair. How can fairness make people jerks?

[Dispraise]

Even assuming that women are less "combat ready" than men, there's enough force multiplication in play that this is no longer a gender equality issue. Just set a standard, and hold it. If she can do the work, there's no problem. If she (or he) can't, they shouldn't be in the military.

Seems ridiculously simple to me. Honestly, why does the orientation of a person's fiddly bits even need to come into it?

[Spectral]

Just because they can't lift the same amount of weight (or whatever the requirements are, I dunno) doesn't mean they can't be in great physical shape and perform in modern combat roles.

That's almost exactly what it means. A pullup is a simple test of upper body strength intended to show functional strength relative to body size. Failing at it indicates a lack of functional strength. Likewise, a 3-mile run (which the Marine PFT uses) tests speed and endurance. Being weak or slow or lacking endurance knows no gender.

[Deleted]

The guy just oozes bias and ignorance right from the start of his diatribe. It's kinda hard to take seriously.



I've often wondered that. If the requirements are there to measure a general sense of fitness and ability, then perhaps different requirements for women aren't a bad idea. Just because they can't lift the same amount of weight (or whatever the requirements are, I dunno) doesn't mean they can't be in great physical shape and perform in modern combat roles.

Then we need to establish exactly why those requirements are there and what they represent and gauge.

I mean, would you really want some 100lb chick weighed down by equipment almost the same weight as her trying to pull you out of the line of fire if you were hit? Would she even be able to?

Pretty sure the average soldier carries between 50-70lbs of gear on a patrol, more in some cases, especially so in some roles.

[Spectral]

I mean, would you really want some 100lb chick weighed down by equipment almost the same weight as her trying to pull you out of the line of fire if you were hit? Would she even be able to?

What's striking is that pullups are actually a test that's biased in favor of a 100 pound person. Measuring a skinny guy like myself (~134 pounds), I look stronger than I actually am if you just let me bang out 20 pullups and call it perfect.

[GreatOak]

I bet both numbers here are low.

Well CNN said 99% of men in the marines passed the test and the 50% number is just a ballpark guess by me.

[derpkitteh]

Thats alot


That would be stupid but fair. How can fairness make people jerks?

i didn't mean i weigh a lot, i mean i'm a human stick-bug. if i can pull up 98lbs with my lack of mucle, certainly a 120lb, physically fit woman could do more.

and it makes them jerks because i am NOT a fighter. i don't want to ever have to go to war, i'd shoot myself first >.>

[BatteredRose]

An ignorant little man with an ignorant and misinformed little opinion. Nothing to see here, folks.

[Shelly]

Can't achieve "gender equality" because the femenists just want total dominance & there's a reason why we call some male and others female. A difference, that is.


Anyway i don't want a skinny girl attempting to save me from a burning building, i want a muscly macho man that can lift me with one arm, that's my view.

Ok, go look up Ladies of Crossfit and tell me they can't carry your tubby neckbeard out of a building.

Also as an FYI Crossfit is fast becoming established as the fitness doctrine for many military branches starting with the marines.

[Deleted]

What's striking is that pullups are actually a test that's biased in favor of a 100 pound person. Measuring a skinny guy like myself (~134 pounds), I look stronger than I actually am if you just let me bang out 20 pullups and call it perfect.

Indeed. Me and my friend do pull-ups and rope climbs at the gym when we work out and he's always able to do it easier, faster and for longer because he's so light.

I suppose it's almost like putting a larger engine in a small, light car.

Conversely I can lift a lot more and for longer than him.

I suppose it depends on the individual tests. I'd very likely pass the fitness tests for the military, but I would undoubtedly be less efficient at various tasks than some and more efficient than others at times.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, go look up Ladies of Crossfit and tell me they can't carry your tubby neckbeard out of a building.

Also as an FYI Crossfit is fast becoming established as the fitness doctrine for many military branches starting with the marines.

You're missing the mark.

People that are physically capable of performing all of the tasks to a minimum standard that is expected by the men they will serve alongside should be welcomed.

We shouldn't be lowering the standards for women just to bolster the ranks, increase percentages and ratios, just so some politician can tout he's increased equality for women in the armed forces. It's downright dangerous.

[twelvethirty]

Basically the whole pull up thing boils down to this. If you cant pull your own body weight, how can you be expected to do combat missions? Infantry soldiers are expected to a certain degree to be self sufficient. Carrying 80+ lb packs isnt uncommon and its likely more if youre going out for a few days or more. Men have a hard enough time with it, I wouldnt even want to imagine a woman doing it. Hoops arent created for men, and they sure as hell shouldnt be made for women just so some policy makers in washington can score political points.

Here is a female marine officer, who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and her first hand opinion of what its like to be a woman in combat over the course of a combat deployment. I suggest people read it.

http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/a...-created-equal

[BatteredRose]

Can't achieve "gender equality" because the femenists just want total dominance

Stopped reading there. Educate yourself on the difference between feminists and femi-nazis before you open your mouth... or rather, hunt and peck at your keyboard.

[Waalt]

I agree with everything in the OP. Men and women are different, and I predict no improvement on anything "equality"-related, before this has been accepted and incorporated.

[Deleted]

Stopped reading there. Educate yourself on the difference between feminists and femi-nazis before you open your mouth... or rather, hunt and peck at your keyboard.

It's very much like saying "Not all Muslims are terrorists. But the majority of terrorists are Muslim".

Sure, feminism on the whole shouldn't be attacked, despite the fact it's relatively redundant in the West, but I don't think it's a cheap shot to generalise the majority as the nutjob morons we typically suffer the misfortune of seeing on the news.

[Deleted]

and it makes them jerks because i am NOT a fighter. i don't want to ever have to go to war, i'd shoot myself first >.>

That you would get an opt out based on gender would make them jerks too.

You are capeable enough to assume everything else would be an insult.

Ok, go look up Ladies of Crossfit and tell me they can't carry your tubby neckbeard out of a building.

Also as an FYI Crossfit is fast becoming established as the fitness doctrine for many military branches starting with the marines.

It's very much like saying "Not all Muslims are terrorists. But the majority of terrorists are Muslim"..

I would say the majority of humanity are incosistant hypocrits and egoist and hence most woman support some ideas of feminism if it supports their particular view.

The whole I would rather not have anybody to die naivity if called out for doesnt work forever. See Norway.

Against the majority of woman they made military service gender neutral.

[BatteredRose]

I agree with everything in the OP. Men and women are different, and I predict no improvement on anything "equality"-related, before this has been accepted and incorporated.

Yeah, you big strong men should take away our voting rights, reproductive rights, and hell, everything! I should just be happy staying at home cleaning house and making sandwiches.

Yeah, no.

It's very much like saying "Not all Muslims are terrorists. But the majority of terrorists are Muslim".

Sure, feminism on the whole shouldn't be attacked, despite the fact it's relatively redundant in the West, but I don't think it's a cheap shot to generalise the majority as the nutjob morons we typically suffer the misfortune of seeing on the news.

Generalizations are just plain fucking ignorant.

[Deleted]

Yeah, you big strong men should take away our voting rights, reproductive rights, and hell, everything! I should just be happy staying at home cleaning house and making sandwiches.

Yeah, no.

I... I'd be happy sitting at home cleaning and making sammiches...

...Sorry mankind, i've failed you!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Recruits? 1% fail

General Public? Probably 50%

Be worse if it was pushups. Then again I'm out of shape >_<