Dps bg's only

[Syfy]

Balancing the game does not exist in Blizzard's vocabulary.

[Redlikemyrage]

Because BGs are about winning 1v1/2/3s. Now who is the scrub here.

You're serious? Equal gear and skill, no one wins 2v1 or anything, you even playing this game? Any time I've won 2v1 in arenas/random bgs/wpvp it is because the other players are BAD. Period. No class is capable of winning 2v1 (outside of imbalanced wpvp) if either of those 2 players have any ability at all. So in other words, there is no way currently one can be a "scrub" for losing 2v1. The only "scrub" that would exist are the two bads that lost 2v1.

And after that you realise that half of your team consists of backpedaling road-fighters and the other team has better gear.
Now what.

And this response is in any way relevant to the fact that # of healers usually decides the win, and nothing more? Pointing out that your team consists of backpedaling road-fighters and the other team is better geared is really irrelevant, because one team isn't even trying to achieve objectives, and no amount of healers would help them.

In a BG where gear/skill/class compositions are all even, the number of healers decides who wins a large majority of the time (I'm talking true random BGs, not half pre-mades that people try using as evidence).

[banur]

You're serious? Equal gear and skill, no one wins 2v1 or anything, you even playing this game? Any time I've won 2v1 in arenas/random bgs/wpvp it is because the other players are BAD. Period. No class is capable of winning 2v1 (outside of imbalanced wpvp) if either of those 2 players have any ability at all. So in other words, there is no way currently one can be a "scrub" for losing 2v1. The only "scrub" that would exist are the two bads that lost 2v1.

No, read what wiep wrote: "healers show up and interfere, thus denying you the possibility of winning any 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 fights [...] you might as well just stand still and die to scrubs" - it's totally not the objective of any BG to win 1vX and you would be the scrub if you tried this, regardless of healer presence.

And this response is in any way relevant to the fact that # of healers usually decides the win, and nothing more? Pointing out that your team consists of backpedaling road-fighters and the other team is better geared is really irrelevant, because one team isn't even trying to achieve objectives, and no amount of healers would help them.

It is relevant to the idea of removing healers from the BG because they are currently strong. If you follow down that path you will find the next thing that is too strong - so remove that as well. Where do you stop?

[Damsbo]

Sounds fun, I'm sure I'dd love it

[-Ethos-]

"Fun", I posted somewhere before: Is Flexible.

For you and others it might not be Fun.
For the Posters you responded to and others it might be Fun.

For me both are fun. When the Groups are somewhat balanced out it actual is fun, even with Healers.
But the way it is right now I'd rather take the mindless DPS-fests. Because most of the time this is the only chance you have to make a point. To show what you've got up your sleeve and just DESTROY some bads, who can't do shit without Healers. And no, I don't consider Classes who are worthless in PvP right now "bads".

Just taking precautions:

- In this case the following things won't help you to make a fucking point about whether it's Fun or not

-> Your High Rating in whatever Clusterfuck you choose to use.
-> Your obvious Skill and thus Right to tell people what's fun
-> Everything else that is used far too often around here, just to force some shitty personal Oppinion onto others.

- I don't know you, I don't know what your Intentions are, again: Just took precautions, because I know what the usual Scenario is in this kind of Threads.


Anyways, I'd be all for it. Actually all for both. Either fucking balance out Healers in Random BG's or make Only DPS BG's an Option.

I said it isnt fun because Blizzard themselves have stated thats one of their main reasons for being against it. It crops up every time someone makes a "Team Deathmatch BG plzplzplzplzplzplz!" thread.

[Redlikemyrage]

No, read what wiep wrote: "healers show up and interfere, thus denying you the possibility of winning any 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 fights [...] you might as well just stand still and die to scrubs" - it's totally not the objective of any BG to win 1vX and you would be the scrub if you tried this, regardless of healer presence.

Ah, I see. Perhaps put a ? mark at the end, as your post reads as if you were stating that not being able to win 1v2/3 made you a scrub.

It is relevant to the idea of removing healers from the BG because they are currently strong. If you follow down that path you will find the next thing that is too strong - so remove that as well. Where do you stop?

Except removing healers because they are grossly imbalanced isn't at all comparable to removing back-pedaling, road fighting, or undergeared players (which are issues of skill, caring and/or dedication, respectively). You are comparing apples to oranges.

[banur]

Ah, I see. Perhaps put a ? mark at the end, as your post reads as if you were stating that not being able to win 1v2/3 made you a scrub.

In hindsight, yep should have done that.

Except removing healers because they are grossly imbalanced isn't at all comparable to removing back-pedaling, road fighting, or undergeared players (which are issues of skill, caring and/or dedication, respectively). You are comparing apples to oranges.

Which is the point. At first one would take the next strongest class because they can stay alive longer while dealing more damage but in the end we can never have a balanced single game as it is only balanced in the big numbers. That is what most people forget when they complain about healers: those games you won because you had the stronger team and you can't fix that by removing a certain class or spec.

[Redlikemyrage]

In hindsight, yep should have done that.



Which is the point. At first one would take the next strongest class because they can stay alive longer while dealing more damage but in the end we can never have a balanced single game as it is only balanced in the big numbers. That is what most people forget when they complain about healers: those games you won because you had the stronger team and you can't fix that by removing a certain class or spec.

I don't think anyone wants that. Removing a strong class isn't the same as when Blizzard is clearly unable to balance healers for large scale PvP. Imbalances are going to exist between classes, and there's never going to be a change for something like that. It's damn near impossible to balance 11 classes without dramatically gutting the identity of every class. But healers aren't even balanced in 3s ffs. Or rather, they are balanced around the the fact that you better be running a comp with a near infinite CC chain or you are gonna struggle to get past 1900. But that's a different problem in itself. I despise that Blizzard doesn't do more to make more comps viable (like reduce DR categories, and reduce all the damn CC) or that they continue to ignore the fact that not playing your character for 30+ seconds out of every minute IS NOT COMPELLING GAMEPLAY.

But yeah... back to my point. You are still ignoring that removing healers is in no way the same as removing players because of skill or philosophy differences (aka, "My $15 blah blah, I do wut I want!" while ignoring all objectives and road fighting). Nor is it even the same as wanting to remove a strong class or spec. Why is it not the same? Because having a strong or overpowered class isn't going to sway the results of the fight as much as number of healers will. Nothing currently affects your chances of winning more.

Still, I can't deny that I'm sure some people would want to take it to extremes if Blizzard were to start doing stuff like this, but I really don't see where they would be opening up a can of worms or anything. Bottom line though, healers should not be so valuable to a team. In fact, there should be a trade off. One team has 4 healers the other team has 2? Team with 4 healers shouldn't have a blatant advantage. But as the game is, they currently do. With no penalty for not having as many damage dealers as the other team (or at least, a penalty that puts them in any kind of disadvantage).

I just think people have real issues currently with how healers are, in essence, more valuable in BGs than anything else. I remember in Cata even (and more so in Wrath) not having a healer in a WSG didn't mean an automatic loss like it does now (barring extremely bad team play, but again, player skill isn't really important to this discussion). Yet even then, healers were still fine in 3s, and desired for almost all comps (never ran triple dps, but I don't want to say that it wasn't viable at those times, cause I honestly can't remember), and were able to contribute to their team in a meaningful and effective way. Fast forward to now, and healer power has gone through the roof with no real reason other than Blizzard adding too much CC, which wasn't needed in the first place, which created the need for battle fatigue, blah blah blah... It's a vicious cycle Blizzard forced themselves into for no reason. It's really time they fixed their glaring mistakes.

[Deleted]

Because BGs are about winning 1v1/2/3s. Now who is the scrub here.

I rarely do BGs, and when I do, I most definently focus on my own enjoyment, and that involves killing people. I do not care for objectives or for winning in that matter. Thats the way I enjoy myself in BGs, and has nothing to do with my skill level. If you don't like players who play like that, so sue me. I'm the person who spammed BGs as one of 3 pocket healers together with a Full heroic PvE shadowmourne warrior.

[banur]

I rarely do BGs, and when I do, I most definently focus on my own enjoyment, and that involves killing people. I do not care for objectives or for winning in that matter. Thats the way I enjoy myself in BGs, and has nothing to do with my skill level. If you don't like players who play like that, so sue me. I'm the person who spammed BGs as one of 3 pocket healers together with a Full heroic PvE shadowmourne warrior.

So you join BGs without the intention to win but to pwn and think that facerolling with pocket healers and the best possible gear is impressive or something. Yet you complain about todays healers?

[Deleted]

While we are at it, remove warriors and hunters also. This is how bad this thread sounds.

Healers are fine.

[Golden]

I rarely do BGs, and when I do, I most definently focus on my own enjoyment, and that involves killing people. I do not care for objectives or for winning in that matter. Thats the way I enjoy myself in BGs, and has nothing to do with my skill level. If you don't like players who play like that, so sue me.

This is the reason right here why I wish they would merge rated BGs back together with random BGs. The personal rating does a good job of forming even teams (though the healer to DPS ratio might still need to be forced), and to keep people interested in working together. The better you do, the better teams you are allowed to be placed on, etc.

This guy would eventually have such a low rating that he could hang out with all the AFKers and bots and farm HKs to his heart's content - safely quarantined away from the rest of us who actually try to work as a team.

[Tumble]

I don't see why they don't just use your mmr for random bgs. I know it wouldn't be perfect, and I know the queues would increase a bit, but I think overall people would be happy. Oh and also make it so you are automatically put into the spec in which you signed up for. That way there is less ability to cheese the system.

[edmorte]

Or they could just, you know, balance healers.

This!!! The game needs it urgently.

[NickCageFanatic]

As the system works now, every bg is rng based on the amount of healers one team gets. And good equipped healers are worth x dps. They are just too good.
Im just going to say it; I want pure DPS bg's only! I want fast paced, live in the moment-crazy dmg , die like a man bgs. Or close to the feeling bg's gave me back in vanilla when you actually could kill stuff with CD's.

I may be asking for something impossible here, but all i want is to acutally think i matter in a bg. Not watch that they have 3-4 healers vs our 1,sit down and wait to get raped.

BGs would then become nothing more than what team has the average superior gear. Right now with healers you can have 1-2 people with 350k hp and still win but with a system where you have 1-2 people that low hp with no healers, while the other team is all 430k+ you're gonna be screwed. Unless you make up for in with extreme skill while the other team is flat out bad.

In short no, BGs would become WAY to fast paced. It sounds like you want something like CoD where you can rambo your way through the enemy base and take a head on 5v1 match and win. Such gameplay does not exist in World of Warcraft.