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  1. #1

    Siegecrafter 10H Burn

    I've seen people mention the 10H Burn Strat with 1 Heal, 2 Tank, 7 DPS. Can anyone who has experience please tell as much about it as you can to give me a feel for it so I can consider if my raid group is capable of it. It sounds interesting but just don't know enough about it for us to give it a shot.

  2. #2
    I've done it with my raid friday. After something like 280 pulls.
    We do regret this strategy. We have chosen this one because at the beginning we had 3 melee, and the mines strategy was difficult for us with only 3 ranged DPS (with a hunter on duty belt). But after we were 2 melee and did not change our tactics, that was our mistake.

    The zerg strat is good if you have 7 really strong damage dealer. Everyone needs to be above 300k during 4 minutes.
    And you can forget about fail, a fail is a wipe.
    Moreover I don't know if you can do without a disc priest, for 2 reasons. First the DPS, second disc can heal everyone with atonement (can heal people 80 meters from him if the wounded one is at the opposite side of the boss, which much likely going to happen).

    So it's a good strat if you have a disc and good dps.
    You raid does not fail often.

    2 days after killing him, I still think we should have done the grandpa way. 8 minutes long fight, killing the mines on the plateform and dps slowly

  3. #3
    Yeah, the zerg strat works better for some. I'd advice against it if you have a proper setup for the mines tactic.

    1 healer pretty much means zero mistakes allowed. And there are room for alot of mistakes on that fight.
    Last edited by Proberly; 2014-01-06 at 09:48 AM.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Anzen's Avatar
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    I had a friends guild attempting this strategy to simplify the fight; a couple of weeks of progression later and he tells me they are going back to trying to kill it properly.

    Good luck either way, please tell us what you do and how it goes!

  5. #5
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    Damn, we were hesitating between the FatBossTV strat : Kill the mines on the belt and the WarcraftAcademy (Evrelia) strat : kill the missiles and AoE the mines. And now we have another one that we could consider.

  6. #6
    We initially tried zerg but it had absolutely no room for mistakes, we're now resorting to doing it the old fashion way and are at 30%, I think it's better to do it normally because if you're missing someone or bringing in someone who wasn't in for most of progression it's probably not as harsh to redo the fight.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderTaco View Post
    Damn, we were hesitating between the FatBossTV strat : Kill the mines on the belt and the WarcraftAcademy (Evrelia) strat : kill the missiles and AoE the mines. And now we have another one that we could consider.
    If you are 10 man I would go with the Fatboss strat, the Warcraft Academy one is more geared for a 25 man raid. 25 man's have more variety of CC/Slows/Knockbacks avail to deal with mines and you will find in 10 man ensuring people with these abilities are on the platform really lowers your ability to mix and match good belt comps, which are the most important part.

    We started with killing Belt Missiles first and switched to mines for the above reason.

  8. #8
    Burn strategy does not make sense for me, if you can survive the first magnet phase you can (and should) survive 4min more. For 25m to kill bombs on platform is really easy, but for 10m is much, much more complicated. The easiest strategy for 10m is to kill bombs on belt. It's a harder fight on 10m (though klaxxi is easier than 25m)

  9. #9
    We tried to 'burn' it with our 25 man mains on 10 man but it didn't end too well, you're most likely easier off doing the normal strategy. Kill off the mines on the belt and if there aren't any mines then missile. I'd suggest killing the laser on double mine + laser wave.
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  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Although it's a farm boss for us now, I would actually be interested in trying - just for the fun of it. So you basically just burn the boss from the get go and ignore everything else? Obviously 1 tank would have to pick up the Shredder and kill it with 3 stacks to avoid getting killed by Overloads. But if everyone knows the patterns and don't get hit, I don't see why this tactic shouldn't be able to work. With a Bear tank using HotW to Tranq and Reju, a Paladin tank could BoP the Disc Priest and also just bring as many Hybrids as possible for the off healing.

    This actually sounds like fun.

  11. #11
    we did it for our kill as well.

    It's a pain because any mess up is a wipe and just when you think you get it down, your hunter misses a disengage. Biggest tip i can offer is to spend some time watching videos and placing raid markers for where the "safe zones" are during OP lasers. Make sure not to cover these areas with non-op laser beams so the raid can move without getting the fire debuff. More than 1 stack on a raid member is a LOT of damage to heal when the boss is wailing on the tank, plus the shredder is overloading.

    Focus on not taking damage for a few tries. Then work on increasing your boss damage. If you don't have the DPS to kill it in 4 minutes then not worth trying it because you have a mandatory mines spawn then. We used engineer EMP belts to stun them right before boss died.

    Other than that, nuke the fk out of the boss. Every bit of boss damage counts so tank the boss not too far from the pipe.

    Anyway, have your hunter solo the first platform, then alternate with a DPS for every other one.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Danishpsycho View Post
    Although it's a farm boss for us now, I would actually be interested in trying - just for the fun of it. So you basically just burn the boss from the get go and ignore everything else? Obviously 1 tank would have to pick up the Shredder and kill it with 3 stacks to avoid getting killed by Overloads. But if everyone knows the patterns and don't get hit, I don't see why this tactic shouldn't be able to work. With a Bear tank using HotW to Tranq and Reju, a Paladin tank could BoP the Disc Priest and also just bring as many Hybrids as possible for the off healing.

    This actually sounds like fun.
    You just need extra healing if your tank are not able to kill the shredder quick enough.
    The 4th tick of overload is really dangerous.
    Moreover first add is killed with 3 charges, second with 4 (the first tank takes an extra stack) and the last one with 5.

    The burn strategy has a berzerk, it's 4 minutes and 5-10 seconds. Because the last belt (double mines) you don't sent anyone and burn the boss while a shitload of mines and running to you.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Okay I see. Well, we can kill the Shredders with 3 stacks and when the Russians did it the first time, it was late October. We have way more gear and people can burst out over 1 mil damage. So the way I see it, it's about not fucking up and taking damage from Sawblades etc.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderTaco View Post
    Damn, we were hesitating between the FatBossTV strat : Kill the mines on the belt and the WarcraftAcademy (Evrelia) strat : kill the missiles and AoE the mines. And now we have another one that we could consider.
    Its all based on comp... :P
    Do you have lots of aoe stuns and slows ? Deal with mines.
    No aoe stuns and slows ? Cant deal with mines.
    Have enough dps and skill to "zerg" it ? Might aswell do it the proper way, its not easy, you cant avoid learning belts, you cant avoid learning platform, all it does is adding stress and a false sense of it being easy.

    We did solo heal for a while, but that was more due to doing belts in 558 gear with double mage, boomkin and spriest and we added a ret lol..

  15. #15
    There is very little room for extra damage. If you do this strat, and it sounds like everyone is against it, make sure you have your disc priest (you need one) get that invis with fade thing. They can fade the saw blades and lasers so they pick someone else so they can continue to heal. Everyone else needs to be on their game dodging missiles and making sure every saw blade is put in a good spot, we ran them in to the fire so careful with stacks.

    When all the fire comes out we had all the ranged stand about where the boss is before the pull and had the boss about 30 yards away from us and the shredders in the middle. After the second wave of overpowered missiles we would rotate everything up, have the ranged stand where the boss was and the boss moved up another 30 or so yards.

    I think you try and beat the 7th belt but if you are at about 10% before a belt spawns just skip that one. I think we killed it during the 6th but we also have 25 man gear. It is very unforgiving and if you can control the mines I would just suck it up and take the long and safe approach.
    Last edited by Kamswow; 2014-01-06 at 09:49 PM.
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  16. #16
    On 10 man I'd say it's easier to dance the missiles than the kill waves of adds unless you have some absurd comp like double destro or something.

    I have not tried the zerg strat so I can't comment.

  17. #17
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    If you're doing the burn you want to destroy mines on the assembly line and at least the first magnet. Most burns use one healer and doing a magnet with one healer is pretty tough. Disc priest is probably the best healer to do this with as well. It relies a lot on your tanks (and what type of tank you have) because getting a 4th overload gives you such little room to pull it off properly. The second and third shredders 4th overload comes at really critical times, so it's best that you try to avoid that if possible.

    Burn makes the fight really short (like 4 assembly lines) but it's pretty hectic after the second assembly line. You have zero room for error because you will probably die and there is literally fire everywhere.

    We tried it when a couple of people were missing for like 30 minutes and went back as soon as we got our regular crew. We normally do 5 (or 6) assembly lines (I forget) with a traditional 2 healer comp, and we always deal with the mines. Very little risk as long as the assembly line doesn't fail we win after the first magnet phase is over with.

    You don't need a very good composition to do the mines on 10 man. We have 3 range DPS do it with no consistent AoE snare and it typically isn't a problem. Lock, mage and elemental shaman on the mines. Pretty standard. I can't think of a poor composition for mines TBH. Priests have void tendrils, hunters (though they should be on the belt) are amazing, and obviously balance druids have snares in addition to multiple knock backs.

    We had over 300 wipes and flip flopped a lot on strategy (probably nearing 400). We just dealt with mines on the platform in the end and killed it *shortly* after. Depends on what you want to do though. Zerg strategy isn't really a traditional zerg in which it makes the encounter easier, it just makes the encounter shorter. Opting to do it that way REALLY front loads the difficulty and puts a huge emphasis on like zero mistakes. If you don't mind wiping in the first two and a half minutes a lot of times, by all means try it.

  18. #18
    So, I have seen a lot of opposition to the burn strategy, but we have used it every week for almost a month. It does depend on having classes that can maintain a high amount of DPS for the entire duration. Our raid comp is:

    Tank: Blood DK and Prot Pally
    Healer: Disc (we also killed it this week with a MW Monk as well)
    DPS: 2 rogues, hunter, ret pally, enhancement shaman, Mage and warrior. The mage, hunter and shaman stay on the platform the entire time and we rotate between the 2 rogues going up and our ret pally/warrior.

    Having a Disc priest definitely makes it easier simply for the fact of healing players who are OOR. Whenever I had to go grab the shredder, the MW had to stay behind to toss me some heals which really spread the heals thin on the rest of the raid. Having markers down helps immensely, but that is simply to mark the safe zone in OC Fire and also to prevent the ranged from dropping saws on top of the area I tank the 2nd shredder. Killing the shredder before the 4th overload is a necessity, especially if you aren't solo healing with a Disc priest. If you see a 4th overload coming, either pop a Devo or pray no one gets one shot.

    Also, as people have mentioned this is a "No mistake" strategy. A couple individuals in our raid sucked at dodging simple things like saw blades during OC Magnet and killing mines was out of the question. We stuck with this strategy and it works, but requires the right DPS make up. As for belt targets, we always killed mines and if there wasn't a mine to kill, we killed the magnet. The boss has to be at 12% when the 6th belt ends otherwise you won't make it.

    Things that will cause a wipe:

    - Not killing something on the belt (obviously)
    - Any player lagging pretty much makes the night a living hell
    - Someone gets really stupid and drags a fire line over where the belt dps land when they get pulled off
    - Really shitty OC Drill spawns because it decided to choose the players coming off the belt to place the first one on.
    - The list can go on

    Really, the list of cons to doing this strategy is quite long and obviously if your raid can handle OC Magnets and one round of mines, go for it. However, if your raid has some special individuals, give the burn strategy a shot. The obvious benefit is that the fight is over in roughly 4 and a half minutes.

    Edit: If you click on the stream link and go to 1:18:00 you will see the beginning of this weeks Blackfuse kill. I know the recount is showing Healing, but if you want to see a damage recount let me know and I'll post the link to last weeks kill.

    http://www.twitch.tv/slyfie/b/493032196
    Last edited by Nerieana; 2014-01-07 at 02:58 AM.

  19. #19
    Link for the zerg strat:

    youtube.com/watch?v=EFXw0axTp-Q

    Too few posts to link directly sry.

    Pretty much sums up everything mentioned on this thread.

    GL

  20. #20
    Only bringing 1 healer would just make the fight overly more complex. We killed it today with 2 healers and had the boss at 15-20% when the first mines spawned, then we failed the last belt (7th) and the boss died right after the shield expired. Unless you find the mines extremely hard to handle (like if you have 4+ melee lol?),there are not really any benefits of 1 healing it.

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