Are brewmasters squishy? Only tank alt to get squished by Ordos

[Promdates]

The fact that you only have 5k crit is very bad. Higher crit means more Elusive Brew procs, which means you get a higher avoidance rate, meaning you're going to take less damage. If you can replace your Rook's trinket, you'll probably be better.

Now, having said that, for Garrosh 10N, your gear isn't bad. Drop the Glyph of Guard, as Garrosh himself will do more damage than the Whirls and the tank dot would. Pick up the 3m Orb glyph so that all of your Gift of the Ox orbs last 3 minutes, giving you a bunch of healing orbs on either side of you. Take the tank (stamina+20% DR proc) meta, as the proc will be very helpful. I can switch your gear around a bit and you'll gain 16% crit, which would increase your EB and would lower your damage taken.

You don't need that additional 4500 stamina that you have gemmed for though, as it is actually having a negative effect on you and your tanking requirements.

[Solial]

The fact that you only have 5k crit is very bad. Higher crit means more Elusive Brew procs, which means you get a higher avoidance rate, meaning you're going to take less damage. If you can replace your Rook's trinket, you'll probably be better.

Now, having said that, for Garrosh 10N, your gear isn't bad. Drop the Glyph of Guard, as Garrosh himself will do more damage than the Whirls and the tank dot would. Pick up the 3m Orb glyph so that all of your Gift of the Ox orbs last 3 minutes, giving you a bunch of healing orbs on either side of you. Take the tank (stamina+20% DR proc) meta, as the proc will be very helpful. I can switch your gear around a bit and you'll gain 16% crit, which would increase your EB and would lower your damage taken.

You don't need that additional 4500 stamina that you have gemmed for though, as it is actually having a negative effect on you and your tanking requirements.

I disagree with the guard comment, I think glyph guard is great on that fight.

[Art3x]

Why not use diffuse for the whirls and drop guard glyph?

[allaiva]

I disagree with the guard comment, I think glyph guard is great on that fight.

For normal it's a whatever. I used it a couple times and had guard actually expire without using the full absorb due to only absorbing magic damage =/ Stopped using it after that.
For Whirls Diffuse Magic and Zen Med are much better options imo.

[chezwickcheese]

It's most likely a gear issue. While I don't play a BrM Monk I have healed them and those with less than average gear tend to die in a blink of an eye. More mastery and crit seems to make a big difference.

[Téuntjûh]

don't pull boss with less then 35 people, so u have people to share splash dmg,

On Ordos, most tank deaths are due not enough people being in range for the splash damage.
If you have a group with not many melee dps, the damage can't get split and this will result in first some dead melee and then 1-shots on the tanks. This has nothing to do with your gear, it's just boss strategy.

So next time if you die with your monk, check what the source of the death was.
If you got 1-shot by an ability that was supposed to be shared damage, blame the ranged dps and healers for not hugging the boss.

[Deleted]

For normal it's a whatever. I used it a couple times and had guard actually expire without using the full absorb due to only absorbing magic damage =/ Stopped using it after that.
For Whirls Diffuse Magic and Zen Med are much better options imo.

That's a large reason why i like it so much, every guard cast means i get 30% more healing out of 2x chi waves and expel harms on non-magic fights. Rolling chi waves between Elusive brews can cover a lot of damage. With a chi wave macro to target yourself first and expel harm triggering on low HP 400-500k+ Expels are not uncommon.

Physical guards are only really good for expected large hits like Execute on nazgrim, since otherwise you'll just absorb 100% of the damage for 1-2 hits off Garrosh and then go back to taking full damage again. I'd rather be able to take the physical damage head on through Stagger and deal with magic damage it via increased healing off the high uptime guard. In the case of Garrosh you can also smooth out the damage of the DoT quite a bit with the glyph. I haven't gotten to the last 3 heroic bosses in SoO yet so i might be biased ^^

All in all it's a matter of taste, and depends a bit what kind of healing you roll with. But i really like the glyph because of the increased healing as it gives a more reaction based playing. Non-glyphed guards are just flat out 250-500k absorbs causing irregular damage intake. Each to his own =)

[Promdates]

That's a large reason why i like it so much, every guard cast means i get 30% more healing out of 2x chi waves and expel harms on non-magic fights. Rolling chi waves between Elusive brews can cover a lot of damage. With a chi wave macro to target yourself first and expel harm triggering on low HP 400-500k+ Expels are not uncommon.

Physical guards are only really good for expected large hits like Execute on nazgrim, since otherwise you'll just absorb 100% of the damage for 1-2 hits off Garrosh and then go back to taking full damage again. I'd rather be able to take the physical damage head on through Stagger and deal with magic damage it via increased healing off the high uptime guard. In the case of Garrosh you can also smooth out the damage of the DoT quite a bit with the glyph. I haven't gotten to the last 3 heroic bosses in SoO yet so i might be biased ^^

All in all it's a matter of taste, and depends a bit what kind of healing you roll with. But i really like the glyph because of the increased healing as it gives a more reaction based playing. Non-glyphed guards are just flat out 250-500k absorbs causing irregular damage intake. Each to his own =)

It was determined back in T14 that using Glyph of Guard for the healing increase was less beneficial than just using Guard itself on the physical damage hit. Preventing damage > healing the damage taken. It's like saying that you should glyph for Guard on Malkorok if you're solo tanking so you can heal yourself instead of just preventing the 1m+ damage with the guard. You're going to mitigate more damage than you would heal.

But like you say, to each his own.

[rhapso]

Similar question to follow-up on: I was tanking Garrosh 10N yesterday on my brewmaster alt (545) and had to tank Garrosh in P1. On one pull, the first 2 hits killed me as they came back to back and I couldn't get Shuffle up so fast. Is it that you should usually pull with DH / FB? I felt this at multiple points starting an encounter that BRM can get wrecked before shuffle is up.
Healers weren't that good either, in the end I was on 2nd place (in healing) with 75k hps so I wasn't just sitting in the fire getting crit to death Still, I don't think a healer can do much in between two swings.

[allaiva]

Similar question to follow-up on: I was tanking Garrosh 10N yesterday on my brewmaster alt (545) and had to tank Garrosh in P1. On one pull, the first 2 hits killed me as they came back to back and I couldn't get Shuffle up so fast. Is it that you should usually pull with DH / FB? I felt this at multiple points starting an encounter that BRM can get wrecked before shuffle is up.
Healers weren't that good either, in the end I was on 2nd place (in healing) with 75k hps so I wasn't just sitting in the fire getting crit to death Still, I don't think a healer can do much in between two swings.

Should be able to KS->BoK before 2 swings come in. If you're really in that big of a mess you could KS->Guard, but that's definitely not ideal. KS->BoK->EH is probably your best bet, probably with Chi Wave in the mix.

[Promdates]

You can pull with Dampen Harm if you need to. You can also game your Chi in Tiger stance so that when you swap to Ox you have 1 chi, hit Expel Harm to go to 2, then do Blackout Kick as your first ability so you have Shuffle up right away.

[Art3x]

Chi Brew prior to pull and open with KS > BoK > BoK

[PowerOfTwo]

well there's no denying that brm are ... different, nwm the "dps holding aggro" feeling but even the whole tanking with energy thing feels so bizzare to me. I mean pallas are just DDR, wars and dks you're still constantly doing stuff like spam devastate or dump RP, with my monk alot of times i feel like i just have dmg coming in and have nothing to press to at least seem like im reacting.

Its not realy a problem of not having energy but BoK just stacks a buff that at 1 sec or 10 minutes does the same thing, guard will absorb a hit or two and elusive brew is built through white hits (maybe a haste buff tied to jab?). Maybe its just me that feel this way tho, i would say however that if they made jab free / tiger palm have a chance to proc something or build some kinda stack it would help me be more comfortable.

Can't place my finger on it, maybe its lack of experiance on the BrM but its like say on a dk or warr when i hit that DS or shield barrier its not even that they're superior to guard or anything, but its mostly that they're spamable, you can technicaly plan them and pool rage and track incoming dmg for big blood barriers, but like i said when im taking 230-250k hits (1/3rd of my hp, when geared for ehp, if i geared crit accroding to Mr. Robot i loose 65k hp and taking bigger hits from loosing 6% mastery) the 30 second cooldown on guard isnt cutting it. And with EB i just don't feel safe at all , avoidance hasn't been the paradigm since like bc / wrath? Going back to that garrosh 10, i had 1 or 2 times while i was tanking him allmost no incoming dmg, avoided alot of hits and it was chill, the other 8 or so times our disc priest was spamming me and only me and then we start to loose raid memebers..... That and i was assuming the haste / crit build was to purify more often besides EB more often yet you're telling me there's no point in purifying yellow stagger and my head just explodes how some BrM are having fun and are awsome....

If anyone has a kind of commentray video on a brm run (not just random trash or proving grounds), like a comented raid run / harder boss where a brm is explaining what he does and why that would prolly go a massive way, guides and stats and priority lists will only get you so far (it seems, wich is anoying tho, i got 8 90s at this point and the only 2 specs i can't wrap my head around after a 15 minute trip to icy veins is BrMs and Disc priests).

[Promdates]

Yet again, you're underplaying the effectiveness of Elusive Brew. This is from the first minute of 25H Siegecrafter the other night. Over the course of a 6:35 fight, Siegecrafter meleed me 117 times. He only hit me for 36 of that, 4 were fully absorbed, the rest were either dodged or parried. That's the huge benefit of having Elusive Brew. Granted, I'm like 30 ilvl above you and sitting at 45xx haste, 20% raid buffed mastery, and about 13k crit rating.

Different tank mechanics just requires you to play monks differently than other tanks. We have a slightly different learning curve.

[Ailylia]

Brewmasters are not squishy at all if played correctly.

[DirewolfX]

You should really run DeathNote or a similar add on. You can easily use it to figure out why you died (or at least give a mini death log so the forum can).

[Rockets]

EB's a lot better than you're giving it credit for. I mean, yeah, it's not burst protection -- that's what mastery is for, after all. There have been around eight billion threads talking about the crit vs. mastery gearing strategies already (hint: if you are regularly dying to physical damage, get more mastery) so I'm not gonna go into detail on that again at this point. But our base avoidance is already so high that adding another 30% onto it can really make a huge difference.

Base parry for monks is 8%. You probably have like 18-20% unbuffed dodge just from agility at this point. Mobs at +3 levels reduce those each by 4.5% (and completely negate your base chance to be missed) so you're looking at ~18% base avoidance against raid bosses, or a bit more with raid buffs. Shuffle adds another 20% parry that you can assume will always be there if you are playing correctly, so in regular combat you're going to be seeing around 40% avoidance.

EB is 30% more dodge on top of that. 70% avoidance is a lot. Your chance to be hit drops from 60% down to 30%, so on average EB is worth about a 50% damage reduction against avoidable attacks. Especially in cases where you're tanking a big pile of adds (Galakras, Garrosh P1, Spoils to some extent, H-Immerseus, etc), you're taking a lot of small, fast hits and you'll hit that average pretty reliably.

So I mean, yeah, you can still get burst and die through EB. But the chances of that happening are a lot lower than without it, and on average it's REALLY GOOD.

Seriously though, as has been said already, we can't really tell you what you're doing wrong without logs. But uh, 95% of the time when inexperienced brewmasters come in here and go "I feel squishy, why is brm so bad at tanking?", it's because they are letting shuffle drop and not noticing it. Most of the remaining 5% is because they're not using CDs correctly for the fight mechanics.

[Atomicfelony]

That sounds like very few people were in range near you for the Magma Crush, it 1 shot me when I tanked him at 487 on my BM.

Told the raid to stack on melee, never dipped below 50% again. Shuffle wasn't even up for most of the fight as I was doing laundry at the same time.

[Musta Kyy]

At low gear levels BMs are kinda squishy, you could go for mastery until your gear is better. Also make sure you keep suffle up and elusive brew as well.