1. #1

    Hard counter for rogue and mages?

    Just wanted to get a consensus of what are the hard counters for mainly frost mages and rogues this season in arenas and RBGs?

  2. #2
    I think the only true hard counter a mage has is a hunter. Rogues I'm not too sure about (for what it's worth, I feel relatively strong on my warrior against rogues). As for comps, anything super tanky (ele/afflic lock for example) should fare well against the super-burst of a mage/rogue comp.

  3. #3
    Yea, Ele/Aff is a good counter for Rogue/Frost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chubathingy View Post
    But anyway it's OK to be jelly of the tallest midget.

  4. #4
    Interesting, I've seen a lot of elemental shamans as of late but not that many affliction locks. Also I've seen some hunter CC a couple of rogues in arenas but that's because he had a decent healer with him.

  5. #5
    Hunter can single handely counter a rmp if he plays right.
    insta silence mage, start tranqing buffs to stop alter time huge burst
    wyvern rogue and throw a flare at him, if he trinkets have a team mate CC, and when you get a chance trap the healer.
    other than that, tanky comps screw over rogue mage pretty good, ele warlock, warrior lock shaman, etc.

  6. #6
    just go kfc with shman + goat. gg

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Peruh View Post
    just go kfc with shman + goat. gg

    Providing you don't let them abuse your shaman too hard in the opener then this is gg.

  8. #8
    better rogues and mages

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunterpower View Post
    Hunter can single handely counter a rmp if he plays right.
    insta silence mage, start tranqing buffs to stop alter time huge burst
    wyvern rogue and throw a flare at him, if he trinkets have a team mate CC, and when you get a chance trap the healer.
    other than that, tanky comps screw over rogue mage pretty good, ele warlock, warrior lock shaman, etc.
    you can do a scenario like that for both mage and rogue, so these kind of hypothetical just do..x,y,z is not very accurate.

  9. #9
    There's no such thing as a hard counter anymore, those are broken aspects of the game that are mostly fixed.

    Mostly the answer is just find a strong comp and play better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    There's no such thing as a hard counter anymore, those are broken aspects of the game that are mostly fixed.

    Mostly the answer is just find a strong comp and play better.
    Ill let my mage know that he wont die in 3 globals to unavoidable hunter damage if he believes hard enough.

    After the hunter buff I would not be surprised if mages fell off the map. They counter mages stupidly hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    Ill let my mage know that he wont die in 3 globals to unavoidable hunter damage if he believes hard enough.

    After the hunter buff I would not be surprised if mages fell off the map. They counter mages stupidly hard.
    everything can die in 3 globals, that doesn't mean its a hard counter. and what a hunter isn't that much different what mages pull off with lance spam

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    everything can die in 3 globals, that doesn't mean its a hard counter. and what a hunter isn't that much different what mages pull off with lance spam
    You must not play a mage cause lancespam does around 2-3k when not frozen. lancespam went away with cata. now we only "spam" it the 3 seconds u are deep'd.
    “What was God doing before the divine creation? Was he preparing
    hell for people who asked such questions?” - Stephen Hawking


  13. #13
    Seems like with some classes it's all about timing than mongo spamming.

  14. #14
    As a Rogue, I've found the following hard counters in general, in order (from a 2s perspective playing with an Ele Shaman or Resto Druid, 1700-1800mmr):

    DPS
    1. WW Monks - almost a guaranteed loss every time I see one, especially if they have a pocket healer in 2s (heaven forbid if it's a MW Monk).
    2. Frost Mages - Just WTF. Blink, double immunity with ice block (what ever happened to Hypothermia?), and absolutely insane burst, plus pet and pet nova. They also almost never hard cast now outside of Ring and Poly. Rogues had the upperhand against them for probably 1 season when Cloak and Dagger worked with Shadow Dance, and that's been about it.
    3. Warriors - Not nearly as bad as they used to be though. Probably got a lot of practice against them from the beginning of the expansion when they were absolutely ridiculous. Second Wind seems much easier to get through now, although if my Vanish is down and I didn't spec into something like Burst of Speed or get peels from my partner(s), they can just mash their keyboard at me.
    4. Very Good Hunters - plenty of bad ones, but a well played Hunter can just lock really anyone down for insane lengths of time, and with Flare they have the one ability that denies Rogues their only way of getting out of a root other than trinket/Gnome racial, which just makes the CC chain that much longer.
    5. DKs - Completely unpeelable initially with abilities like IBF and Desecrated Ground and they put out insane damage. More of an issue of them being able to just tunnel my partner though.
    6. Feral Druids
    7. Pets - Impossible to get behind them if they're not stunned (so already a massive DPS loss) plus Hunter pets can block/parry/dodge, and they're nearly impossible to get away from long enough to restealth. Plus trying to target a Spirit Link totem with Mirror Images, a Fire Elemental, and a swarm of UHDK pets on the screen all on top of it is just futile.


    Easy Kills
    1. Arcane Mages - Do these even exist in PvP? Never actually seen one
    2. Elemental Shaman - Sorry, but you're going to be tunneled until you're dead
    3. Other Rogues - No Trinket = Dead
    4. Fire Mages


    Healers
    1. MW Monk - Nearly impossible to stay with due to their mobility and their passive immunity during stun just destroys Rogue bursts. I've had some luck using Paralytic Poison to trigger their immunity and then landing a full KS since they don't DR, but Life Cocoon basically completely denies our strongest burst, especially since the talent allows it to be cast while stunned too.
    2. HPally - If you don't have a Mass Dispel or similar available, or especially if it's 2s and the Rogue is with a non-Priest Healer. Doesn't help you usually see them with a Warrior, Hunter, or both.
    3. Resto Druids - You should listen to me bitch about Faerie Fire in arena while fighting druids.
    Last edited by dak1; 2014-01-08 at 05:49 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    You must not play a mage cause lancespam does around 2-3k when not frozen. lancespam went away with cata. now we only "spam" it the 3 seconds u are deep'd.
    watching mitchjones the only thing he tends to hard cast is poly and ring, guess he's doing it wrong.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    There's no such thing as a hard counter anymore, those are broken aspects of the game that are mostly fixed.

    Mostly the answer is just find a strong comp and play better.
    While a bit closer to truth in Arena, outside it, I will tell my Warrior that he can chase down that Monk if he really believes in it, and then he can actually hit him, can get out of Frost Nova if he believes hard enough etc.

  17. #17
    Rogues I've seen tend to be countered by Warriors and Hunters, while Mages are countered by Death Knights and Shaman.

    Feral Druid's also good against both.

  18. #18
    Enhance punishes mages pretty well. Rogues can get ruined by hunters and warriors. But there isn't really such a thing as a "hard counter" anymore (except for poor shadow priests maybe).

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