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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Cycobi View Post
    It's fine; I can deal with "harsh" comments as it were; having someone who mains a different class coming into your forums and saying you didn't need a buff isn't exactly what people love

    But, believe me if I could link you logs of ScrubBusters progression from this tier; you'd understand where I'm coming from when I'm talking about DKs being "fine". Both Zoyt and Vyoh were actually competitive on DPS throughout the entire tier, in fact their lowest point was probably normal-mode week, whereupon gaining their 4sets they immediately started to scale pretty decently into the tier.

    Granted, "top-guilds" are an anomaly in statistical senses, but the reality is the potential for DKs to perform well is there, it's just not being used.
    I don't mean to be elitist or hell, say you can't play your class, but I am saying Frost in particular didn't require buffs. Unh I'm not particularly clued up on, at the time Festerblight was strong I had only just dinged one of my two DKs and was getting to grips with it and I'm aware it received indirect nerfs (as well as direct nerfs) through RPPM changes and Feather changes; DW I've had a lot more time with this tier and I can definitely say it's stronger than people here are making out.

    But, anyway. I'll leave you guys to discuss it amongst yourselves.
    This guy speaks the truth. If you are at the bottom of the meters in your raid as a Frost DK you either:
    1) aren't playing it right
    2) severely undergeared
    3) playing with people much better than you

    Any DK who plays at a high level in this game will tell you the exact same thing. Unholy I would say needed the buff. 2H Frost is gonna benefit from Icy Talons buff more than DW will, which I'm fine with. All 3 of them will be a lot closer now which will be nice.

  2. #42
    @jwx: Still waiting on your evidence.

    @Clash: Just tested mastersimple in simcraft and while it is a much larger loss than masterfrost, I would still ignore KM. The performance difference is small and of course that assumes perfect execution. I used Mendenbarr's action list and simply removed references to KM from the lines that had it.

    DW T16H Mastersimple w/ 45% Icy Talons: 395.3k
    DW T16H Mastersimple ignoring KM w/ 45% Icy Talons: 387.9k (-1.8%)
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2014-01-07 at 03:09 AM.

  3. #43
    DKs board hears about getting buffed: BLARG! Blah blahblahblah let's keep arguing!

    Shaman board hears about getting buffed: Cool.

  4. #44
    Deleted
    its funny to see all these posters come out the woodwork claiming dks were fine... "hey guys im doing fine in my 10 man normal runs!!! if your near the bottom in your raids you must be BAD!!!" please stop posting and read the 32 page long other post to see why yr wrong.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaliblaze View Post
    DKs board hears about getting buffed: BLARG! Blah blahblahblah let's keep arguing!

    Shaman board hears about getting buffed: Cool.
    it's cool to hate on dks

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    @jwx: Still waiting on your evidence.

    @Clash: Just tested mastersimple in simcraft and... you should still ignore KM. The performance difference is tiny. I used Mendenbarr's action list and simply removed references to KM from the lines that had it.

    DW T16H Mastersimple w/ 45% Icy Talons: 278.7k
    DW T16H Mastersimple ignoring KM w/ 45% Icy Talons: 276.7k (-0.7%)
    The priority you linked is for "Normal" Frost using Obliterate and Blood Tap. "Mastersimple" Frost utilizes a little more finesse in regards to KM. It's not a huge swing in numbers by any means because we don't have much room due to strict resource management. But, there is gameplay to be had there opposed to any other Frost play style.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by rerecros View Post
    its funny to see all these posters come out the woodwork claiming dks were fine... "hey guys im doing fine in my 10 man normal runs!!! if your near the bottom in your raids you must be BAD!!!" please stop posting and read the 32 page long other post to see why yr wrong.
    Yep. I raid 10 man normals.
    I'm honestly surprised Fnx and Mione even bother posting here still. They must really love the attention of the typical mouth-breather autist MMO-C poster.

    Infracted. Keep it civil
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2014-01-07 at 04:21 PM.

  8. #48
    The Lightbringer Rizendragon's Avatar
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    I think this thread exemplifies why I've stopped reading too much theorycraft... You have people with "evidence" saying we need buffs and then you have others with "evidence" saying we don't. Pretty petty imo...

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizendragon View Post
    I think this thread exemplifies why I've stopped reading too much theorycraft... You have people with "evidence" saying we need buffs and then you have others with "evidence" saying we don't. Pretty petty imo...
    Could care less if the class is "buffed" or "nerfed". If you were at the bottom of the meters before you're still going to be at the bottom because you weren't playing optimally before.

  10. #50
    @Jwx: Still waiting on your evidence. I'm starting to think you don't have any!

    @Clash:

    I was using the wrong one! But using this actionlist instead:

    DW T16H Mastersimple try2 w/ 45% Icy Talons: 282.4k
    DW T16H Mastersimple try2 ignoring KM w/ 45% Icy Talons: 278.6k (-1.3%)

    These numbers can't be right as they are much lower than masterfrost. If you have a better actionlist for mastersimple I'm happy to test it. I got this one linked from Mendenbarr's blog.

  11. #51
    The Lightbringer Rizendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwx View Post
    Could care less if the class is "buffed" or "nerfed". If you were at the bottom of the meters before you're still going to be at the bottom because you weren't playing optimally before.
    I wasn't, but thanks for worrying about me. I actually agree with your last post... So much flaming here its hard to read through the garbage.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    it's cool to hate on dks
    Especially if you're a DK. Masochist class

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizendragon View Post
    I wasn't, but thanks for worrying about me. I actually agree with your last post... So much flaming here its hard to read through the garbage.
    but his posts are flaming?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Still waiting on your evidence. I'm starting to think you don't have any!
    Evidence of what? That we're competitive at the highest level of play? That we aren't bottom of the meters? Please be specific.

    Also, could you post your character? I just want to see what kind of mess we're dealing with here.

  15. #55
    Yes, please post evidence of both those things.

    Hahahah no. No armory flaming here, my friend. But please feel free to go on an elitist rant if you like, I do enjoy them.

  16. #56
    Stood in the Fire Praxis's Avatar
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    Can someone tell me why the hell a minor buff suddenly turned into a giant argument? This is the DPS circlejerk thread if you want to go talk about that, but seriously.. this is a buff. It is literally infinitely better than nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by scabobos
    Especially if you're a DK. Masochist class
    Hi Scabies, it's Ihriel.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Praxis View Post
    Can someone tell me why the hell a minor buff suddenly turned into a giant argument?
    Nothing to do with the buff, directly. Some people came in here saying "DKs were fine and didn't need a buff" but neglected to support those arguments in any compelling way.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Hahahah no. No armory flaming here, my friend.
    Exactly. You're a complete mess dude. I mean just looking through your post history, "I have a hard time keeping my diseases up". Like really?

    See the problem with people like you is that you sit there and cry that your class doesn't perform well, but in the end it's just you. Whether it comes down to maximizing your positioning for more cleave on HB/Xuen, optimally using PL/BT, or knowing how to use your CDs effectively.
    For the most part sims are a joke. There are so many variables and decisions you need to make in split-seconds that can easily be a couple thousand DPS difference. It also depends how your guild does the fights (stacking Protectors) and what roles you're assigned to (belt or killing mines).

    Unless you post something that shows everyone that you aren't completely shit (which your post history and this thread implies), you literally have no credibility at all.

  19. #59
    I asked for your evidence, you responded with insults. Is it too much to ask for you to productively contribute to the thread? Be an adult.

  20. #60
    The Lightbringer Rizendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I asked for your evidence, you responded with insults. Is it too much to ask for you to productively contribute to the thread? Be an adult.
    Except he just destroyed your credibility. If you can't just be sitting there during the fight and know where you messed up and glance at the meter really quick to see just how much it cost you then stop trying to say we're garbage atm...

    OT: It'll be interesting to see how this changes my personal DPS in raid this upcoming week.

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