WoD Heroic Raids easier than current Normal Raids?

[Louis CK]

I understand that Heroic Raids in WoD are just current Normal Raids with a new title, but based on the following tweets from the front page, it seems to suggest that Heroic Raids (aka current normal mode) are going to be easier than Normal is now.



Obtained from the above tweets:

-They make older raids xrealm because people overgear it and know the strategies
-Normal SoO fail rate would be too high for xrealm

So basically, the fail rate would be too high, because Normal mode SoO is too difficult for xrealm groups. While there seems to be a technical reason behind it as well, the biggest reasoning against this seems to be that Normal mode is too hard to make xrealm.

This leads one to believe that the only fix to this in WoD would be to make normal modes (or heroic, as it will be called) easier than they are now.

That is slightly disappointing.

Thoughts?

EDIT: For clarification, as noted by a poster below, all modes except Mythic will be xrealmable in WoD. Thus, Heroic Raids in WoD will be xrealmable, but based on the implications by these tweets, they will be easier than current Normal modes are.

[eillas]

Well flexible mode is the new normal normal is the new heroic and heroic is the new mystic I think

[Feali]

Or leave it like it is and let flex technology do all the magic.

[TheWindWalker]

Well flexible mode is the new normal normal is the new heroic and heroic is the new mystic I think

That's really all there is to it. They've repeated this so many times in plain English and not something translated from unsaid sentences in a twitter discussion of current content. Normal will be what Flex is now. Heroic will get flex technology added but be about where Normal is now and Mythic will be like current Heroic but with a set raid size (20).

[thunderdragon2]

I understand that Heroic Raids in WoD are just current Normal Raids with a new title, but based on the following tweets from the front page, it seems to suggest that Heroic Raids (aka current normal mode) are going to be easier than Normal is now.



Obtained from the above tweets:

-They make older raids xrealm because people overgear it and know the strategies
-Normal SoO fail rate would be too high for xrealm

So basically, the fail rate would be too high, because Normal mode SoO is too difficult for xrealm groups. While there seems to be a technical reason behind it as well, the biggest reasoning against this seems to be that Normal mode is too hard to make xrealm.

This leads one to believe that the only fix to this in WoD would be to make normal modes (or heroic, as it will be called) easier than they are now.

That is slightly disappointing.

Thoughts?

aoo flexi is too hard for pugs the fail rate of them using the browser is retardedly high, unless they nerf normal also whicjh no1 wants.

also id nerf flexi if they nerf normal, the amout of grps ive been in that cant grasp galakras or thok is unbeleveable.

[Dendin]

You are missing the point of the OP. He's concerned that the raid difficulty aimed at the people currently progressing in Normal Modes will be easier than they are now, come WoD. Meaning, that it will be easier for a Currently Normal guild to progress in WoD Heroic's, giving them a less fulfilling experience.

I don't agree, though. I think Zarhym is just saying that a) making normals x-realm now would be too much work and push back the next xpac and b) that it would deviate from the current xpacs expectation of difficulty when opening up "current" normals to x-realm.

[Louis CK]

I keep thinking about this, and I'm more confused.

Are Heroic Raids (current normal) going to be xrealmable in WoD or not?

[thunderdragon2]

You are missing the point of the OP. He's concerned that the raid difficulty aimed at the people currently progressing in Normal Modes will be easier than they are now, come WoD. Meaning, that it will be easier for a Currently Normal guild to progress in WoD Heroic's, giving them a less fulfilling experience.

I don't agree, though. I think Zarhym is just saying that a) making normals x-realm now would be too much work and push back the next xpac and b) that it would deviate from the current xpacs expectation of difficulty when opening up "current" normals to x-realm.

i issed that thanks for pointing it out

[Feali]

I keep thinking about this, and I'm more confused.

Are Heroic Raids (current normal) going to be xrealmable in WoD or not?

All raid modes except Mythic will be cross realm-able

[Krazzorx]

You are missing the point of the OP. He's concerned that the raid difficulty aimed at the people currently progressing in Normal Modes will be easier than they are now, come WoD. Meaning, that it will be easier for a Currently Normal guild to progress in WoD Heroic's, giving them a less fulfilling experience.

I don't agree, though. I think Zarhym is just saying that a) making normals x-realm now would be too much work and push back the next xpac and b) that it would deviate from the current xpacs expectation of difficulty when opening up "current" normals to x-realm.

It wouldn't surprise me if Zahrym is also misunderstanding the original person asking the question. Twitter not very effective for asking multi-faceted complicated questions.

[Tyrgannus]

Every tier wildly fluctuates in difficulty, and what Zarhym posted was related to SoO difficulty. Every single tier since tier 1 has had at least 1 pathetically easy fight, and at least 1 fight that gave the large majority of raiders trouble (even if hardcore world class guilds still face rolled, 95% didn't). I never believe true overall difficulty changes until I play it because every things been so across the board since launch and probably always will be.

Ignis and Yogg-Saron were in the same raid for crying out loud.

[meroko]

Yes they are cross realm able, the only difficulty that isn't is mythic

[Yuyn]

I expect it may partly be related to expectations. If you make the current tier crossrealm-capable in normal right now, people may be expecting to be able to do it... But if you make WoD heroics crossrealm-capable from launch, you might be able to head off people's expectations of them being easy (both from the name change and from whatever early experiences people have with them).

In other words, right now there's an expectation of success in anything crossrealm. In WoD, they may be trying to minimize or remove that expectation.

[Louis CK]

All raid modes except Mythic will be cross realm-able

Okay, that's what I was thinking.

So, given that current Normal (wodheroic) is too difficult to be xrealm, the only solution to make normal (wod heroic) xrealmable is to make them easier.

Correct?

That's what I'm not overly excited about. I was actually debating dropping out of HM (wod mythic) raiding for WoD (been back and forth a lot on this decision since I came back to WoW) and just doing normal (wod heroic), but if it's even easier than it is now...

[Dnusha]

He said about teh failures of random groups from trade channel. Not about what you are talking OP. There is nothing about "Normal(new HC) will be easier in WOD".

[Dendin]

I expect it may partly be related to expectations. If you make the current tier crossrealm-capable in normal right now, people may be expecting to be able to do it... But if you make WoD heroics crossrealm-capable from launch, you might be able to head off people's expectations of them being easy (both from the name change and from whatever early experiences people have with them).

In other words, right now there's an expectation of success in anything crossrealm. In WoD, they may be trying to minimize or remove that expectation.

This, I think, is exactly what Z was getting at. I think that now that Flex is in game, there is a nice step up in difficulty between Flex and Normal (was rough when it was LFR to Normal with that damn Dino as boss #2), and I don't see them changing that, especially with early Mythic no longer being accessible to most guilds with the fixed roster requirement.

[Louis CK]

He said about teh failures of random groups from trade channel. Not about what you are talking OP. There is nothing about "Normal(new HC) will be easier in WOD".

Yes, and in WoD, the same random groups will be using the xrealm system. So, if it's too hard for xrealm groups to do now, it will be too hard for xrealm groups in WoD. Thus, the implication here is that they will be easier.

- - - Updated - - -

I expect it may partly be related to expectations. If you make the current tier crossrealm-capable in normal right now, people may be expecting to be able to do it... But if you make WoD heroics crossrealm-capable from launch, you might be able to head off people's expectations of them being easy (both from the name change and from whatever early experiences people have with them).

In other words, right now there's an expectation of success in anything crossrealm. In WoD, they may be trying to minimize or remove that expectation.

This makes a lot of sense.

[TheWindWalker]

That's what I'm not overly excited about. I was actually debating dropping out of HM (wod mythic) raiding for WoD (been back and forth a lot on this decision since I came back to WoW) and just doing normal (wod heroic), but if it's even easier than it is now...

Either way it goes, if you're in a vaguely decent raid group you'll progress out of WoD Heroics in a couple months at most. (Barring a Dogs/Elegon kind of situation.) I doubt they're just going to make them easier. Honestly, my interpretation was more like not opening the flood gates on random pugs from all over the world and causing confusion in the middle of a tier rather than having that be the standard at the beginning as it will be in WoD.

[Dendin]

So, given that current Normal (wodheroic) is too difficult to be xrealm, the only solution to make normal (wod heroic) xrealmable is to make them easier.

Correct?

The only solution if they were to do it within this expansion with it's overhead of expectations based on previous tiers going x-realm. In WoD, with the full revamp, expectations won't exist and they can start from scratch, and I just don't see them making anything easier.

[Feali]

My biggest problem with Zarhym's response is that he doesn't seem to realize that with a bigger pool of potential members there's potentially more "good" randoms.