WoW is no longer an MMORPG, but an MO (massively online game) - PvE perspective

[Madruga]

Multiplayer = you play with other players = check
Online = you play through the internet = check
RPG = you take the role of a character in a made-up world = check

It can be argued that the RPG part of WoW is a bit lacking, because you don't have that many choices with how you change the world like you could have with a tabletop game (instead the world changes and you go with it), but then again, the vast majority of console and PC RPGs are also like that. There are very very few games where your choices actually do change the world (Mass Effect, for example), nearly all of them the story is what drives you and you just enjoy the ride. So, WoW is not so different from your standard RPG experience when it comes to video-games.

Maybe the Massively part could be argued in dead servers, but still there are the Finders for evertyhing, still giving you sense of scale so...
Massively = Check.

And there you go, the entire acronym of MMORPG is still in WoW. So, I don't really know what the OP intends to argue against.

[Raiju]

Well, actually every game in which you play a fictional role is a RPG.

Except the genre of RPG is not a simple definition of playing a role in a game, as mentioned - COD is not an RPG.

[DieFichte]

Except the genre of RPG is not a simple definition of playing a role in a game, as mentioned - COD is not an RPG.

Yeah but you can expand that definition and put it up side down and look at it sideways, WoW is a RPG. /thread

[Deleted]

Carrying arrows certainly added to the role of being a hunter.

What I was saying with the armor is that a mage should not have the same armor as a warrior. Cloth should not come close to plate yet we have mages taking the bombs on Iron Jug because no longer does cloth mean weaker armor. We have plate wearing priests, theyre called paladins. The fact that a priest has nearly the same melee damage reduction as a paladin however, clashes with roleplaying elements. A sword doesnt cut through plate easily, it does slice through cloth.

I agree that a sword should cut easier through cloth, but I imagine the caster classes have a spell cast on them (passive buff) which increases their resistance to damage and it doesn't break roleplaying.

[Raiju]

Yeah but you can expand that definition and put it up side down and look at it sideways, WoW is a RPG. /thread

So WoW is an RPG but not an RPG? OK.

I wish people would stop saying "well wow is technically a game where you play a role". That's basically trolling, it's junior trolling.

[Deleted]

Except the genre of RPG is not a simple definition of playing a role in a game, as mentioned - COD is not an RPG.

Well, it is,

A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development. Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.

Would like to hear your perspective of what an RPG is though.

[DieFichte]

So WoW is an RPG but not an RPG? OK.

I wish people would stop saying "well wow is technically a game where you play a role". That's basically trolling, it's junior trolling.

What do I have to post my charactersheet for my WoW character now? WoW is a RPG, end of story (or if you are a roleplayer, a neverending story!) (I think there is even a subforum here with charactersheets and discussions, right?)

[Raiju]

Well, it is,

A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development. Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.

Would like to hear your perspective of what an RPG is though.

I disagree with bolded part. That has nothing to do with the game, and as such does not make it a roleplaying game. The bit right after the bold is what WoW lacks though. They are constantly stripping away any decision making process, so what little RPG was there to begin with is effectively gone now.

[Deleted]

Skyrim does no such thing, Mass effect was criticized for having the same ending and I believe were forced to change that. Dragon Age has small variances.

No I do not agree. I can immerse myself into COD and be all dramatic about dying, but that doesn't make it an RPG.

I'm talking about how people say WoW isn't a RPG because you play on a set path and yet in a lot of well known RPGs you do it as well, they just add an illusion of choice along the path. And yes, even Skyrim does that, one example would be the Imperial vs. Stormcloaks war, where no matter whose side you choose, in the end nothing much changes except for the leaders of the defeated faction.

[DieFichte]

I disagree with bolded part. That has nothing to do with the game, and as such does not make it a roleplaying game. The bit right after the bold is what WoW lacks though. They are constantly stripping away any decision making process, so what little RPG was there to begin with is effectively gone now.

What? The roleplaying experience didn't change since release. You have a setting (lore and the world around you), characters, quests, stories. The rest is what you make within that world, with your fellow friends (or enemies, sometimes roleplay leads to crushed faces ).

[slime]

WoW is the definition and gold standard for an MMO, this thread is ridiculous.

I could see that, in the same way that mcdonalds is the standard for a burger. Both seem to have the same appeal as well, very fast service and an "okay" product.

[Deleted]

I disagree with bolded part. That has nothing to do with the game, and as such does not make it a roleplaying game. The bit right after the bold is what WoW lacks though. They are constantly stripping away any decision making process, so what little RPG was there to begin with is effectively gone now.

I agree that WoW lacks decisions that alter your "personal story". Would love to see them inplant quests with different endings.

[Raiju]

I'm talking about how people say WoW isn't a RPG because you play on a set path and yet in a lot of well known RPGs you do it as well, they just add an illusion of choice along the path. And yes, even Skyrim does that, one example would be the Imperial vs. Stormcloaks war, where no matter whose side you choose, in the end nothing much changes except for the leaders of the defeated faction.

In Skyrim you can physically kill people, stop story lines from being available, etc. and even in dragon age you can lose out or gain options in story line based on options in the game. Skyrims character progression isn't *hugely* tied to the story either, just the shouts.

You don't have to be a good guy in skyrim, basically.

There's only one dual option quest I can think of - you can choose to kill or let live the harpy in hyjal. This has 0 effect on anything, though. You can't even see her again.

[Deleted]

In Skyrim you can physically kill people, stop story lines from being available, etc. and even in dragon age you can lose out or gain options in story line based on options in the game. Skyrims character progression isn't *hugely* tied to the story either, just the shouts.

You don't have to be a good guy in skyrim, basically.

There's only one dual option quest I can think of - you can choose to kill or let live the harpy in hyjal. This has 0 effect on anything, though. You can't even see her again.

But killing people in Skyrim still doesn't affect the story at all, because you can only kill people that the game allows you to. And even if you decide to be the most evil person in Skyrim, you still save the world from Alduin.

[Raiju]

But killing people in Skyrim still doesn't affect the story at all, because you can only kill people that the game allows you to. And even if you decide to be the most evil person in Skyrim, you still save the world from Alduin.

Well no, and no. Most core story NPC's are unkillable but not all of them. I know I couldn't do the werewolf chain because I killed a crucial npc on my first playthrough.

[Deleted]

Well no, and no. Most core story NPC's are unkillable but not all of them. I know I couldn't do the werewolf chain because I killed a crucial npc on my first playthrough.

But the werewolf chain is a side story, not core story. And explain the second no, please.

[Raiju]

But the werewolf chain is a side story, not core story. And explain the second no, please.

skyrim is very sandboxy, you there's no real obligation to do the main story, you pick and choose the stories you do and this (the important bit) affects how npc's react to you in the world. Your role has an affect within the game.

Corrupted Ashbringer was an example of RPG elements, to me.

[Santoryu]

WoW is engineered so that playing it as an MMORPG yields the best results, while giving players other limited gameplay options. That is all.

What does someone who does raid and 5 man premades gain compared to someone who uses LFD and LFR? Slightly better gear and an achievement and in fact they gain less because doing premades gives more VPs.

So not only do you not know what role playing means, but you don't know what multiplayer means either. Log onto your game go into Org and/or stormwind and look at those people moving around. Those are what we call PEOPLE. This is a game with PEOPLE in it...multiple player.

Sure they are people, but there is no need to interact with them any more - they might as well be normal NPCs.

You really can't do much without grouping, which means multiplayer and you are your class and use class abilities, which makes it RP.

Without grouping, no. Without interaction, yes.

Bu what did WoW have before that made it a better RPG than it is now?

You could tell people apart and you could build up a reputation on your server.

Poisons? Gone
Regents? Gone
Ammo? Gone
Noticeable armor difference between cloth and plate? Hardly
Nighttime? Gone
Traveling the world? Gone

I forgot to mention these in my OP. Thanks

Theres a lot of people = Massive
We can group with people = Multiplayer (a 2 player game is a multi player game)
Online = Yes
Roleplay = You play a character with stories, its a roleplaying game.
Game = I think its a game yeah.

I'm arguing semantics here, not syntax.

Actually the OP is wrong and not wrong. WoW is an MOG (as you put it) and at the same time a MMORPG. Blizzard didn't take away the community experience, the multiplayer aspect or the roleplaying, they just gave out alternatives. You choose to not play it as a multiplayer, you choose not to go into the roleplay aspects of warcraft, it wasn't blizzards choice, they just followed the community.

Very true. But those alternatives are a lot more appealing than meaningful cooperation in premade groups and are the de facto path of least resistance, which most players will take. My argument boils down to the fact that in a game classified as an MMORPG you can pretty much reap the same benefits if you play solo as if you play with your friends.

Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.

Except that in WoW you can't really fail. You have to try really hard to fail.

[Deleted]

So WoW is an RPG but not an RPG? OK.

I wish people would stop saying "well wow is technically a game where you play a role". That's basically trolling, it's junior trolling.

Really? Let's take a look at CoD and measure it against the things that we can typically expect to find in a RPG . Customisable avatar (havnt played CoD myself besides a foray into SP MW1 so feel free to correct me on any point), some sort of progression whether it be unlocks earned by points gained or levels, a story with various locations(though this does exist only in SP), inventory management, perks or talents to enhance your character.
It's not the fact that WoW isn't a RPG it's the fact that in modern online gaming where devs and publishers want the players to play their games for as long as possible they have incorporated many of the elements of the game type which has traditionally been the biggest time sink for players which are RPGs. Just as you have listed criteria which demonstrate for you why WoW is no longer we can list practically any online game and list the qualities which do make it RPG-like. With the ever increasing focus on grinding, unlocks, rewards and customisation the term RPG has taken on an amorphous quality and describing a game as an RPG by a set criteria of qualities and features is increasingly redundant because these days an RPG is just something that looks like a RPG and plays like a RPG which WoW still clearly does as opposed to CoD even with it's focus on grinding and unlockables and even story.

[Thage]

Skyrim does no such thing, Mass effect was criticized for having the same ending and I believe were forced to change that. Dragon Age has small variances.

Three of the four endings in Mass Effect 3: Extended Endings Cut still have the same end result: the Reapers are defeated and Shepard saves the galaxy. In two of them, at the cost of her own life. In one of them, she becomes the ruling AI over the Reapers. In a high-EMS Destroy ending, she survives and, Bioware confirmed after the Extended Cut release, is found by the Normandy crew and recovers to go on more missions with them. Even the Refusal ending added in still amounts to the galaxy being saved, this time by Liara's black box being discovered and work on the Crucible starting earlier in the next cycle than in Shepard's.

Dragon Age literally only has one ending: You destroy the Archdemon. Whether it's you, Loghain, or Alistair doesn't really matter. The same cutscene is used regardless, just with a different Grey Warden dealing the killing blow. Dragon Age 2 has all of two endings: you side with the Templars or with the Mages.

WoW as an RPG is constrained to one story path as a development necessity, considering its persistent status, the online environment, and ongoing storyline. Each expansion stretches the storyline further, and the single storyline makes it easier to build off of (retcons aside). But you still take on a role to play--that of an adventurer for the Alliance or the Horde, making your way through the world and earning the attention and respect of your faction's leadership and that of neutral parties as a problem-solver of the highest degree. The quests tell a clear story that involves you (increasingly, as the expansions went on, rather than just painting you as a one-of-many nobody who just happens to be really good at your job), and the usual fantasy stories of war and raiding enemy strongholds is told while you engage in the typical RPG mainstays of growing in power by gaining levels and enchanted gear, learning new skills as you level and lay waste to your enemies.

Just because WoW is a gameplay-first RPG doesn't change the fact that it's an RPG. It just means the devs happen to favor roll-play over roleplay as a necessity given the millions-strong playerbase and the forum majority that would rather bitch about class balance than discuss and engage in the story. Roleplayers are a stark minority in this game. It's a fact we've come to accept, but it doesn't change WoW's status as an RPG.