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  1. #241
    Field Marshal Amphicar's Avatar
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    Stopped reading after astral walker and dragonslayer titles were hard. Casual perspective attempting to be hardcore, 11/10 trolling

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    fixed that for you.

    It's worth mentioning I played games like shadow the hedgehog. I know what happens when designers try to make choices too important (and then tack an ending on afterwards wut), it ends up very shallow.

    Good RPG's have never been about worldshattering changes, but well implemented ones.
    So which games would you consider good RPGs? I agree they're not about that, but what I'm trying to say is that a lot of RPGs don't have well implemented or important changes, yet they're still considered RPGs. I also should have made my point clearer in the first place: I don't think WoW is a good RPG, but it's still an RPG, despite the disagreement of some people here.

  3. #243
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raego View Post
    So which games would you consider good RPGs? I agree they're not about that, but what I'm trying to say is that a lot of RPGs don't have well implemented or important changes, yet they're still considered RPGs. I also should have made my point clearer in the first place: I don't think WoW is a good RPG, but it's still an RPG, despite the disagreement of some people here.
    It's a few pages back now as this thread is moving fast, but I said RPG's are a bit of a grey area right now due to the constant moving goal posts of the industry. I covered there that I can understand people may consider it an RPG (legitimately), I personally feel it is too vague of an adventure game for that these days and what little argument it had for being called an RPG is gone. It's certainly an MMO though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  4. #244
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    Somehow, all I read is criticism towards difficulty, and not how many people the game has..
    Plus you are wrong with the claim how there is no difficulty and interaction required at all. Normal and Heroic Mode beg to differ, and the stats released here recently, as well as the stats over at Wowprogress vehemently disagree with your assumptions.
    Of course normal and heroic require interaction! I'm saying LFG and LFR should, too, because that would make them more enjoyable!

    Heaps of players that truly are not that good are unable to overcome the scenario hurdles. They struggle at the thunder forge. And more struggle at the celestial challenge.
    Pretty sure that'll be nerfed soon.

    Now you are not only silly, but judgmental. I do not know where you find the high ground to determine what is to be called effort or not. But the legendary cloak is definitely an item that is not just a give away. It requires to invest a LOT of time and patience. At least equal to the time investment for legendary raid drops.
    I'd be fine with it if you could tell who got the cloak from LFR and who got it from heroic raiding.

    First of all it isn't a myriad of mounts and pets... Secondly you are only assuming here.. People buying the store products to stand out is a gutsy assumption. This may be the case on the greater picture. Buying them to complete the collection, but I am very sure how people are a lot more intelligent as you make them out to be.
    You don't think someone goes to Walmart and buys clothes there, to stand out, do you? That's the same thing essentially.. Items that are sold in the Blizzard store are meant to be bought by millions of people. They are meant to be a mass product, not a special snowflake limited to few.
    Mounts are nothing but spells that increase your moving speed. If what you're saying was true, people would get just the horse mount from the vendor and be done with it. But that's far from the case. People resort to grinds and quests and yes, the store, because they want a mount that is different from what others have.

    How would you feel when you are new to the game, you worked your way through the content, you are kinda halfway through the progression line, and all of a sudden they remove the finishing line from you, by calling the race off. Wouldn't you be pissed? First they tell you how great of a game WOW is, and you should play. You do so, and then they pull the reward from underneath your feet....
    To that I can only say...tough. I wasn't able to get Celestial Defender, Herald of the Titans, Hand of A'dal or Champion of the Naaru and I'm perfectly fine with that. Also, those who had accepted the final quests for the latter two titles were able to obtain them post 3.0.2, so their reward was not yanked away from them.

    Another collection of complaints how to you the game just lost the ability for you to feel like a special snowflake.
    Or if not that, at least making my time spent in game worth while.

    Stopped reading after astral walker and dragonslayer titles were hard. Casual perspective attempting to be hardcore, 11/10 trolling
    You found killing Algalon and Sinestra level appropriate easy?
    Last edited by Santoryu; 2014-01-08 at 02:20 PM.

  5. #245
    Brewmaster DieFichte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    Or if not that, at least making my time spent in game worth while.
    If you feel your time is not spent worth while, why do you spend it at all?

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    You found killing Algalon and Sinestra level appropriate easy?
    Level appropriate, yes. With the right itemlevel? Not that hard either. Sinestra 10 man was hard, but in 25 man we rolled through there 1 day after we killed cho'gall HC.
    I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn, they will be gone - whispering their hidden song...

  7. #247
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    If you feel your time is not spent worth while, why do you spend it at all?
    I don't. I stopped playing a while ago.

    Level appropriate, yes. With the right itemlevel? Not that hard either. Sinestra 10 man was hard, but in 25 man we rolled through there 1 day after we killed cho'gall HC.
    I suppose for those who traditionally do mostly heroic content it wasn't that hard, but the percentage of people who had killed her in Cataclysm was precipitously low.

  8. #248
    What I would count as a lacking RPG element though is how we can't choose to be a different faction than the one our race belongs to and how we are sometimes forced to hate the opposite faction for no reason. I know this is WARcraft, but that doesn't mean we should all be warmongers.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    I don't. I stopped playing a while ago.



    I suppose for those who traditionally do mostly heroic content it wasn't that hard, but the percentage of people who had killed her in Cataclysm was precipitously low.
    T11 was prob. the hardest tier ever. I dont mean it by a single boss but only because there were so many tough fights and BoTs council and chogall were pain in the ass at the time.

  10. #250
    Even if World of Warcraft has become less and less about playing with other players, it's pretty much still an RPG and Multiplayer.

    But the game has become more of a lobby game where you que up, and instant teleportation menus will take you to your destination.

  11. #251
    The shill brigade came out in force for this one.

    It's simple. Older MMO's, the ones that actually separated themselves from any other genre going at the time, did so by generally making your onscreen avatar have a certain level of management, on both the social and gameplay side. There was downtime. There were setbacks associated with risk and failure. There were situations where your behavior might get you shunned or embraced by your peers, and your name would certainly be remembered for either.

    The last is pertinent, because that is something that few other forms of game can actually offer. Sure, there are games where you can become an enemy to a specific town, etc, but that's all coded into ai, rather than actual social interaction, and the many many variables that can come with it.

    There's far more solo-ability in this game than in any other I've experienced, and that capacity increases with various new additions rather than decreasing (brawlers guild and proving grounds, for example.. and wod's garrisons, a significant part of the gameplay, will be a solo venture). And the rest of the game can be experienced without speaking a word to anyone, with the exception of more difficult raid and pvp tiers, which constitute an ever-dwindling sliver of overall game content.

    It's for these reasons that some feel that the game isn't a true MMORPG at this point, but something a bit different altogether.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  12. #252
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    The shill brigade came out in force for this one.

    It's simple. Older MMO's, the ones that actually separated themselves from any other genre going at the time, did so by generally making your onscreen avatar have a certain level of management, on both the social and gameplay side. There was downtime. There were setbacks associated with risk and failure. There were situations where your behavior might get you shunned or embraced by your peers, and your name would certainly be remembered for either.

    The last is pertinent, because that is something that few other forms of game can actually offer. Sure, there are games where you can become an enemy to a specific town, etc, but that's all coded into ai, rather than actual social interaction, and the many many variables that can come with it.

    There's far more solo-ability in this game than in any other I've experienced, and that capacity increases with various new additions rather than decreasing (brawlers guild and proving grounds, for example.. and wod's garrisons, a significant part of the gameplay, will be a solo venture). And the rest of the game can be experienced without speaking a word to anyone, with the exception of more difficult raid and pvp tiers, which constitute an ever-dwindling sliver of overall game content.

    It's for these reasons that some feel that the game isn't a true MMORPG at this point, but something a bit different altogether.

    This is part of what I'm trying to convey. Thanks for contributing

  13. #253
    Field Marshal Amphicar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    I don't. I stopped playing a while ago.



    I suppose for those who traditionally do mostly heroic content it wasn't that hard, but the percentage of people who had killed her in Cataclysm was precipitously low.
    Can you get me the actual numbers of Yogg+0 vs. Algalon (25) kills during relevant content?
    Can you get me the actual numbers of Ascendant Council Heroic vs. Sinestra (25) during relevant content?

    You clearly didnt/have never raided at this level, please stop making up things.

  14. #254
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphicar View Post
    Can you get me the actual numbers of Yogg+0 vs. Algalon (25) kills during relevant content?
    Can you get me the actual numbers of Ascendant Council Heroic vs. Sinestra (25) during relevant content?

    You clearly didnt/have never raided at this level, please stop making up things.
    I'm not sure if there are many around on this forum if we're using people who raided on a level to kill Yogg 0 as an indicator. Yogg 0 was killed by the first guild legitimately during early July I believe, with ToC then releasing in august. Many considered it impossible up to that point.

    And just because there was a harder boss on each respective tier means the bosses don't count for anything? Algalon was extremely stressful with the 1 hour timer, and T11 as Santoryu mentioned was a very difficult tier overall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  15. #255
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphicar View Post
    Can you get me the actual numbers of Yogg+0 vs. Algalon (25) kills during relevant content?
    Can you get me the actual numbers of Ascendant Council Heroic vs. Sinestra (25) during relevant content?

    You clearly didnt/have never raided at this level, please stop making up things.
    http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier8

    http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier11

    I didn't raid at this level, but I'm not fabricating anything.
    Last edited by Santoryu; 2014-01-08 at 06:00 PM.

  16. #256
    Brewmaster DieFichte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    It's for these reasons that some feel that the game isn't a true MMORPG at this point, but something a bit different altogether.
    You can call it a halfMMORPG if you feel beter about it. Or a ChoiceMMORPG, or does it change what WoW is because I choose to play it with others and roleplay and you prolly don't?

  17. #257
    "The differnce in stats are not profound"?

    Forgive me, but as a caster that cloak proc does anywhere from 10-20% of my dmg on fights.... thats a "profound" effect

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