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  1. #21
    I am not sure how you are 3 healing these fights? On Siegecrafter progression, we had 2 healers and both pulled over 25m damage each (going DPS cloaks, the priest going DPS meta).

    Siegecrafter took us about 130 or so wipes, Klaxxi took about 140, but that is not normal. We just had a night of wiping on Klaxxi due to not having 2 of our main raiders available which probably added about 50 unnecessary wipes.

    Even on Klaxxi, on 10 man, you need the dps. Still can't fathom how people are pulling these fights off with 3 healers.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by st33l View Post
    Even on Klaxxi, on 10 man, you need the dps. Still can't fathom how people are pulling these fights off with 3 healers.
    Well, we certainly did not 3 heal Siege. We were also using 2 healers for a majority of Paragons. But in the end we were having so much deaths to stupid shit. We realised we did not need the dps so we dropped a dps for a healer and just 3 healed it with monk and priest fistweaving and smiting their asses off. After we switched to that it died in 5 pulls or so since people were allowed to fail on mechanics with 3 healers without dying.

    If you are having problem with the dps on Paragons, your tanks are most likely not using the scorpion buff.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #23
    Mechagnome PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Well, we certainly did not 3 heal Siege. We were also using 2 healers for a majority of Paragons. But in the end we were having so much deaths to stupid shit. We realised we did not need the dps so we dropped a dps for a healer and just 3 healed it with monk and priest fistweaving and smiting their asses off. After we switched to that it died in 5 pulls or so since people were allowed to fail on mechanics with 3 healers without dying.

    If you are having problem with the dps on Paragons, your tanks are most likely not using the scorpion buff.
    Agreed with Firefly on that last bit. There's very little good reason for tanks not to be taking the scorpion buff considering the degree to which it trivializes the fight. We regularly have one or two people die to the first and only Choose Catalyst we get (durr how dodge orange catalyst?), but with the scorpion buff you can still easily kill it with 2 dead people and have over 30 secs left on berserk.

    If your tanks are taking the buff but you're still having trouble with the DPS check, your DPS are either underperforming, or your tanks are doing the scorpion wrong - there's a set rotation you should try to follow; you can't just blindly mash buttons when you're getting your arthropod on.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalira View Post
    After doing 25man for the first time today I have to say that for 25man Blackfuse is easier than Klaxxi but in 10man it's the other way around.
    This exactly.

    Klaxxi felt almost like a joke compared to the agonizing weeks of progression that we've had on Blackfuse.
    I believe we'ved wiped 3-4 times as much to Blackfuse compared to Klaxxi for our respective first kill.

    For Blackfuse, you mainly need a lot of wipes to figure out a tactic that suits your raid the most.
    Klaxxi is a lot more straight forward in that regard. There really isn't much that you can do differently.
    Last edited by Snuzzfizzle; 2014-01-10 at 04:16 AM.

  5. #25
    Grunt opbear's Avatar
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    From a raid POV, Klaxxi is easier... For tanking, my own opinion, Blackfuse was easier.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius View Post
    Guardian druid takes buff, pops Nature's Vigil (which lasts as long as the scorpion transformation), then goes scorpion. 25% of his DPS is now redirected to nearby allies as healing for the duration. The scorpion bursts for approximately 2 mil (probably more with lolcritoneverything bears), and so you now have a tank doing 2+ mil DPS and 500k+ HPS for the next 30 seconds.

    So, yeah. Druids. Other tanks can do it too, but the outcome is slightly (if only slightly) less pants-on-head retarded. Pretty sure tanks taking the scorpion buff was very much an oversight by Blizzard - it effectively makes Paragons on par with Malkorok in terms of difficulty, IMO, at least on 10-man.
    So do you 3 tank it or something? we're at 10% on blackfuse so might as well get prepared for the boss ahead.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    So do you 3 tank it or something? we're at 10% on blackfuse so might as well get prepared for the boss ahead.
    Nah. Most often it goes like.

    Scorpion tank takes the hardest hitting guy alive (most likely Ka'Roz) to get vengeance.
    Other tank taunt hard hitting guy and tanks all bosses.
    Scorpion tank pops scorpion and kill bosses.

    You do not really want a hard hitting boss on the scorpion tank as he cant use any defensive while scorpion. It is okay having a soft boss on him, but due to have vengeance works, this often lowers his vegeance which makes it kinda bad.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  8. #28
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by archkiller View Post
    Having a conversation within my guild as to which boss will end up being easier.

    Our raid comp

    blah blah blah...

    Windwalker monk
    I'm actually surprised and quite impressed you listed a windwalker monk as part of your 10 man roster.

  9. #29
    Mechagnome PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    So do you 3 tank it or something? we're at 10% on blackfuse so might as well get prepared for the boss ahead.
    Tee-hee. We were at 10% on Blackfuse for what, 100 wipes? The last 10% are by far the hardest IMHO, assuming you're running the "Drills, Drills Everywhere!"-strat, because the double-mine belt appears around then and mines just suck ass.

    At any rate, no, we don't 3-tank it. The entire reason you're giving the buff to tanks is because of vengeance - everything the Lolscorpion does scales with AP, so it's a massive boost to raid DPS when you give it to a tank that'll be sitting on 300-400k vengeance at some points during the fight. Does the tank get molested? Absolutely. That's what defensives and externals are for.

    Ideally you have a paladin in the raid - this lets you HoP the debuff from Xaril off (yes, you can in fact do this), which means both your tanks can safely tank all the Paragons beyond Skeer and Rik'kal. If for some reason your tanks can't manage (read: can't use their defensives right before they transform, can't call for externals) getting dat sweet arthropod on without dying, the next best choice IIRC is an assassination rogue, given that the scorpion poison scales with their mastery. I think.

  10. #30
    nah we never experience missiles, just endlessly doing mines and lasers with magnets every third belt.

    Ok that makes sense, tank just cooldowns and then I pain supp him after while he tanks the paragon with 500k ap, seems simple enough esp with 3 healers.

  11. #31
    Mechagnome PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    nah we never experience missiles, just endlessly doing mines and lasers with magnets every third belt.

    Ok that makes sense, tank just cooldowns and then I pain supp him after while he tanks the paragon with 500k ap, seems simple enough esp with 3 healers.
    I'd strongly recommend against 3-healing it. It may have been optimal for Firefly when his guild did Paragons (read: with 10-15 lower avg iLvl than you probably have), but at this point gear-wise it'll just make the fight harder. It'll most likely force you to pop hero/lust on the initial Skeer burn, which means you can't pop it for Xaril, which means you'll probably get 2 x Choose Catalyst. It may also make the Korven burn sketchy. None of these things are good.

    With the gear you have now, you're better off relying on the extra ilvls worth of stam to be the derp-buffer that 3-healing was for Firefly's group, and just generally relying on not fucking shit up incessantly. Mechanics on Paragons seriously aren't particularly hard on 10-man if you pay so much as a modicum of attention.
    Last edited by PraisetheSun; 2014-01-10 at 09:27 AM.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlanckEnergy View Post
    I see a bear in your banner so I'm not sure if you play one or not... but bear tanks in Scorpion vaporize any attempt at a DPS check in that fight.

    Anyway, Siege is definitely harder in 10. If you can kill him Klaxxi will inevitably follow shortly. The reverse is true in 25. Siegecrafter is far less random with the popular 25 strats. Paragons requires a lot more random personal responsibility and the fight is very very long so there are many failure points. I would like to say it's more of a DPS check in 25 but it's really not if you have a tank in a scorpion (or even if everyone alive, but there are a lot of gibs). On our last kill our bear did nearly 900k DPS. Pretty much solos the final two bosses and any kunchongs with 30 million mangle crits.
    Honestly, we've always had a dps in the scorpion. When I'm tanking it, I'm always tanking Locust who's up almost to the end. Guess we have to try that, dem Mangle crits

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    We were 2 healing it for a majority of progression, we got to the last paragon but wiped (due to having like 4 people alive and no healers when actually getting there). After that we just had people dying on shit like not moving properly from amber or charges. So we decided the add a third healer since we realised we did not need the dps. That allowed people to fail without dying. It just made killing the boss more reliable as you would wipe less on the early paragons on people playing bad. I think we beat the enrage by about 6 seconds, so was close, but you can survive the enrage quite long since we killed Iyyokuk last. It probably would not have been possible though without the scorpion buff, the scorpion is just so OP for 10 man. In hindsight I think I mixed up the item levels though, sadly cant double check since it is not saved on wowprogress anymore, but think i556 was the ilvl we had for siege, so was probably up on like 560~ for Paragons.
    Stop standing in fire

  13. #33
    Epic! Anzen's Avatar
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    I heard most 10 man guilds pull Paragons with the trash and just AoE it all down?

    From what I've heard about both bosses from friends, Blackfuse is harder.

  14. #34
    Mechagnome PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danishpsycho View Post
    Honestly, we've always had a dps in the scorpion. When I'm tanking it, I'm always tanking Locust who's up almost to the end. Guess we have to try that, dem Mangle crits

    - - - Updated - - -



    Stop standing in fire
    If you've ever watched Tova of the US guild Memoirs stream Paragons, it gets pretty dumb. So long as he's arthropodding it up, there's no way for anyone in the raid to die unless Aim globals them. In fact, the healing from Nature's Vigil + Lolscorpion is so high, I'm rather confident it could heal through someone AFK'ing in an Amber Pool with plenty of room to spare.

  15. #35
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius View Post
    If you've ever watched Tova of the US guild Memoirs stream Paragons, it gets pretty dumb. So long as he's arthropodding it up, there's no way for anyone in the raid to die unless Aim globals them. In fact, the healing from Nature's Vigil + Lolscorpion is so high, I'm rather confident it could heal through someone AFK'ing in an Amber Pool with plenty of room to spare.
    It's been a while I watched his stream tbh. But I was sitting out on our first Klaxxi kills, so didn't really spend that much time watching strats/videos for that fight. But I can't wait to try this though. Amg so much dibs, can already hear the dps QQ^^

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Danishpsycho View Post
    Stop standing in fire
    We tried to tell that to our non-raider stand in and emergency trial due to players quitting. In the end, healing through the fire was easier then teaching them to move out from it.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    We tried to tell that to our non-raider stand in and emergency trial due to players quitting. In the end, healing through the fire was easier then teaching them to move out from it.
    I feel sad for you. It's frustrating beyond everything, when people for whatever reason can't figure out how to move out of fire:/ With a whole bunch of new trials in the guild, we're back to progressing on Siegecrafter. Watching people panic, forgetting the running pattern just to go straight through fire makes me cry a little lol.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Danishpsycho View Post
    I feel sad for you. It's frustrating beyond everything, when people for whatever reason can't figure out how to move out of fire:/ With a whole bunch of new trials in the guild, we're back to progressing on Siegecrafter. Watching people panic, forgetting the running pattern just to go straight through fire makes me cry a little lol.
    Well, its not easy as a trial joining on a difficult fight that you have not killed, maybe not even progressed, and the guild you joined have it on farm. Easy to make mistakes then. Kinda easy to take the high horse if you wiped 350 times on siegecrafter before
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  19. #39
    Klaxxi, tank with scorpion buff trivilises any dps requierment and litterly melts mobs.

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Well, its not easy as a trial joining on a difficult fight that you have not killed, maybe not even progressed, and the guild you joined have it on farm. Easy to make mistakes then. Kinda easy to take the high horse if you wiped 350 times on siegecrafter before
    True that, but standing in fire is a basic mechanic tbh, everyone should know not to do that^^ And even though we had around 200 wipes, I still see raiders make noob mistakes though.

    But about that scorpion, how exactly does it work then. People saying you get insane Mangle crits but can you use your own abilities in the scorpion at all?

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