Flex 2 problems

[Raugnaut]

9/10 times, a flex group falling apart is the fault of the raid leader. A flex is a raid. It requires coordination and effort. A leader is needed to direct coordination, and ensure that the group is giving its best effort. Should the leader fail at both, the group itself will be fail.

[Deleted]

You might be prepared to chat with 12yr olds to down a dragon but i only want to with guild members I actually know. It's not about 'ooooo new people are scary' it's about - do I really want to be in a conversation with Juan Carlos a 10 year old Boy that rages?

If that is the difference between ensuring a successful PuG then I take my hat off to you.

Also get sick of fail analogies 'let me use this in-game pixel argument, turn it into a real life situation and bingo, you are now to blame and an idiot'.

TL;DR - I just think it is a shame that a simple feature like Flex takes so much time to set-up and then fails after the first wipe. Enjoy those voice comms buddy.

Yes, cause clearly the majority of the players with a decent ilvl and achievements are 12 year old kids......

The fact that you don't understand how big of a difference a voice com can do, makes it clear why your groups are failing. The problem you're having, is that you don't screen the players you invite to the group properly. I don't remember the last time, I had someone leave one of my Flex groups. But I guess it's also about your reputation, if you only take people from your own realm at least.

I mean, if your groups often fail, the decent players will notice it probably be less likely to join your groups. I mean, the fact that some of you are QQ'ing about how bad the players you yourself invite to your groups are, just shows that you clearly failed at assembling a proper group.

[Deleted]

I'm 14/14 Heroic and I demand everyone to log on TS, when we do our weekly Flex run - even raiders. If pugs don't wanna log on TS, they can fuck off. I have to agree with others, when they ask if it may be the leader i.e you and the OP in some cases, that bares part of the blame though. You being 14/14 Normal means nothing, if you can't figure out how to properly assemble a group. Check achievements for instance or require a minimum ilvl.

To both you and the OP: If you bring people who do 80k dps, then clearly they're either bad or they're crap geared. If they're so bad that they can't push more than 80k, then the odds are they don't even have a Garrosh kill. If they're doing 80k cause their gear is that shit, you failed at checking them before you invited them.

On rare occasions I do join a pug Flex group on an alt. I always check people's HP and if it's below 600k, I inspect them.

This being said, I know that people will often say "LF 1M Tank Flex part 1 - good group" etc. but in reality they're just a bunch of failers. The moral of the story is, that if you want to be sure you get a smooth run, don't pug it. Do a run with your guild/friends or ask the decent guilds on your server, if you can join, when they're doing a run.

People derp around in flex. I tried to carry a friend in flex3 yesterday so we formed a group - people were mostly 550-560 ilvl and had normal mode achievements. Then we pull the boss...oh god. No implosion soaking is speak of. People stand in the group with debuff during blood rage phase. People die from breaths despite clear marking of the danger zones. And the DPS/HPS was nowhere near expected performance for their item levels. Hunter 562 ilvl - 160k dps. Shaman 560 ilvl - 170k. Mage 553 ilvl - 118k. Only me and the DK friend did not afk around and did 320k (570) and 289k (565) respectively. This fight is nearly patchwerk style on normal mode with occasional implosion run, 120-150k dps from people who killed Garrosh normal and even some heroic bosses is unacceptable. And the glorious mentality of leaving after 1 wipe. We re-filled the group about 5 times, resulting in more and more hilarious wipes. Then we just gave up.

Idk what happened to pug quality lately. Are these people all boosted? From my perspective I find it laughable to demand 550 ilvl to join flex group on my server, it can be done with like 500, maybe 520 for later parts. But looking at those people. Now i know why.

[Louis CK]

I don't typically have issues with Flex, even on my recent 90's. Usually one shot everything, every once in a while takes a wipe or two depending on the group. I think the only Flex I've ever left was one this week where we got to Immersesus on my brand new 90. I was topping DPS and nobody could seem to understand how to stay alive. Even the day I dinged 90 and hopped into Flex at 501 ilvl I was nowhere near last, but I sure as hell shouldn't be first. Gave it two chances to see if it was a fluke, but when an entire group out-ilvls me and still can't perform, it's not a group worth wasting my time with.

Other than that, though, I only run it on my main for another wep and thok trink, and even my Warlock and Monk who are only 508/511 ilvl don't really have issues in Flex runs.

- - - Updated - - -

People derp around in flex. I tried to carry a friend in flex3 yesterday so we formed a group - people were mostly 550-560 ilvl and had normal mode achievements. Then we pull the boss...oh god. No implosion soaking is speak of. People stand in the group with debuff during blood rage phase. People die from breaths despite clear marking of the danger zones. And the DPS/HPS was nowhere near expected performance for their item levels. Hunter 562 ilvl - 160k dps. Shaman 560 ilvl - 170k. Mage 553 ilvl - 118k. Only me and the DK friend did not afk around and did 320k (570) and 289k (565) respectively. This fight is nearly patchwerk style on normal mode with occasional implosion run, 120-150k dps from people who killed Garrosh normal and even some heroic bosses is unacceptable. And the glorious mentality of leaving after 1 wipe. We re-filled the group about 5 times, resulting in more and more hilarious wipes. Then we just gave up.

Idk what happened to pug quality lately. Are these people all boosted? From my perspective I find it laughable to demand 550 ilvl to join flex group on my server, it can be done with like 500, maybe 520 for later parts. But looking at those people. Now i know why.

I've actually been debating starting my own weekly PUG runs again. Back in Wrath I would do weekly pugs. After a couple runs the same people started returning consistently, because they knew they'd have a good run. I've hesitated recently after returning to the game just because I had been away so long. But it's nice to know the same people want to come to your runs each week, even if it is just Flex.

[thunderdragon2]

just got into a flexi 2 fresh and decent grp we had up 1st pull it was goign well untill 2nd tower tank and healer died inside so we couldnt rez them we wipe and the we have "the infimus ninja pull" tank dies imedatly coz no1s redy and grp falls awsome....

[Deleted]

What kind of shit groups do you join?

I've wiped like once on Galakras in flex over 15+ kills

[thunderdragon2]

What kind of shit groups do you join?

I've wiped like once on Galakras in flex over 15+ kills

tbh i dono but its my whole relm grp that seems to have aproblem wiht it also thok

btw do u even use the browser for flexi if not its hard to judge

[Normie]

You might be prepared to chat with 12yr olds to down a dragon but i only want to with guild members I actually know. It's not about 'ooooo new people are scary' it's about - do I really want to be in a conversation with Juan Carlos a 10 year old Boy that rages?

If that is the difference between ensuring a successful PuG then I take my hat off to you.

Also get sick of fail analogies 'let me use this in-game pixel argument, turn it into a real life situation and bingo, you are now to blame and an idiot'.

TL;DR - I just think it is a shame that a simple feature like Flex takes so much time to set-up and then fails after the first wipe. Enjoy those voice comms buddy.

Amen.

It creates enough stress for me just listening to random people that I do know talk. I am 100% uninterested in hearing what random unknown people sitting in front of their computers sound like or have to say when they play a video game (or pretty much any other time).

[Louis CK]

tbh i dono but its my whole relm grp that seems to have aproblem wiht it also thok

btw do u even use the browser for flexi if not its hard to judge

itz possubool that itz jus u

not tryn 2 sownd rood but cud b u, i dun haff prublums wit flx

[Marema]

It really is about who you get grouped with. Last couple flex 2's I've done we've cleared everything in around 40 minutes.

[thunderdragon2]

every grp ive been in galakras seems to be the problem and i dont get why but after him the run seems to be smooth

[Sonnillon]

every grp ive been in galakras seems to be the problem and i dont get why but after him the run seems to be smooth

Out of all the bosses in FLEX p2, Galakras needs the most "actual leading".
Everything else is don't stand in fire and kill all in sight ^^

I have lead 3 open raid FLEXs so far (will go more next reset) and all of those runs I have 1 shot every single of 14 bosses (last run was 2.30 hours in total). I demand voice com and I do my "homework" on people I take along. For a premade FLEX group, set in time having voice com makes it easier imho, for instant FLEX (taking some people here and now) getting voice coms up is an hassle for some, so I can order people around in instance or raid chat just as well.

Group failure or success, no matter which difficulty or which boss comes down to how good the leader is and how much the other raiders are listening to the leader. Good leader will have hell of a time leading 9+ other random people who just ignore everything being said and the group falls apart. Bad leader fails to organize the group of people and it falls apart.

[thunderdragon2]

Out of all the bosses in FLEX p2, Galakras needs the most "actual leading".
Everything else is don't stand in fire and kill all in sight ^^

mabybe im missing somthing but do explain.

most of the grp wipes ive been in are either to tower grp failing or adds not being picked up or ninja pull...

a ninja pull after a wipe usualy leads to a disband

[Deja Thoris]

mabybe im missing somthing but do explain.

most of the grp wipes ive been in are either to tower grp failing or adds not being picked up or ninja pull...

a ninja pull after a wipe usualy leads to a disband

Tower groups fail because they go up at the wrong time or the wrong people go up. Leadership helps here. Very occasionally the tank gets thrown off or something stupid like that, leadership can't help here.
Seriously, saying something as simple and obvious as "don't sprint ahead of the tank" can save deaths.

Ninja pull is leadership too, if you vet people you approve you won't have retards like that in the group. If he did slip thru the cracks because he had a lucid moment comms helps to sort out who pulled and you can kick.

[thunderdragon2]

Tower groups fail because they go up at the wrong time or the wrong people go up. Leadership helps here. Very occasionally the tank gets thrown off or something stupid like that, leadership can't help here.
Seriously, saying something as simple and obvious as "don't sprint ahead of the tank" can save deaths.

Ninja pull is leadership too, if you vet people you approve you won't have retards like that in the group. If he did slip thru the cracks because he had a lucid moment comms helps to sort out who pulled and you can kick.

sadly ive seen grps falling due to not paying attention to the leader when i lead i even spell things out but people just dont pay attention sadly, then when i try to replace people other leave im guessing due to lack of patience which dosnt help either

[Ryuda]

I've never really had any experiences in Flex like these when I form my own groups, and I don't think I ask anything unreasonable.

1) I rarely use Voice Chat of any kind, unless communication is becoming an issue.
2) I don't usually put ilvl requirements, I only ask that people have the reg Garrosh FoS (Maybe I'll put on a 530+ for wing 4 sometimes, but that's it)
3) I don't ask for volunteers for important roles, I assign them, if one of the assigned people says they are not familiar with the role, I explain it, if they fail at it, I'll ask if they understood, or prefer to use Voice Chat, if they fail after that, I remove them.
4) In league with the above, I'm not afraid to take time refilling, and will remove people who aren't paying attention/underperforming

Now, a run like this doesn't fill up in 10 mins., it usually takes me close to an hour to get 10-16 people usually, sometimes more, depending how many DPS come. (Because breakpoints are nonsense, really.), but in the end it's usually worth the wait, I don't remember the last time I've had one of my Flex groups actually fall apart, the initial "waiting an hour or so to fill" usually vets the "leave after 1 wipe" people.

[Snaige]

Interestingly enough, I had the same problem of having many miserable wipes on Galakras flex lately as well. I have geared characters, 550+ ilvl and I only do flex via oqueue, joining groups that have minimum ilvl of 550 to join, hoping that with similar ilvl people the run will be nice and painless. However most of the time, raid leader invites many geared players from oqueue and then fills the remaining spots with his/her fresh lvl 90 buddies. When, after a wipe, looking at dps meter I see 3 people below a tank and they aren't healers, I inspect them. Oh look, ungemmed unenchanted 496 timeless isle items. Heal meter: go to tower, everywhere down dies. Hmm why am I healing alone, inspect people who are supposed to be other two healers - shaman has some poor healing items, rest 496 agility mail...... Disc priest heals with renew. Yes, renew...


Out of ideas what to do now, it is kinda lame even a supposedly high ilvl requirement doesn't give some chances of success and when I complain about low ilvl people in a high ilvl group, I get kicked.

What to do in this situation? I want to do flex, I am a decent and geared player Oqueue is out of the question because of the above, openraid=same thing happening. The only raiding guild on my server doesn't do flex.

[Hattey]

I admittedly haven't had that much experience with openraid, but I agree that oqueue lately has had many horrible pugs masquerading under "FAST FLEX PRO NO BADS 550+ ONLY," but the few times I've gone and done it in openraid I've gone for the runs that look like they happen every week and have regulars who return, and not been disappointed by them. Especially if you look at the lead's prior history with putting raids together and the feedback they receive, I've not been pointed wrong thus far. If most comments are shining, and they state concrete details like voicechat req/btag invite times/etc in the description, it usually goes well. Likewise, the bad runs often have the red flags in the feedback section.