View Poll Results: Is SoO getting nerfed?

Voters
439. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, 5% when pvp S15 arrive.

    34 7.74%
  • Yes, 10% when pvp S15 arrive.

    113 25.74%
  • Yes, but afterpvp S15 arrive.

    31 7.06%
  • Yes, but close to the release of WoD.

    133 30.30%
  • Yes, but after the WoD launch.

    36 8.20%
  • No, is never getting nerfed.

    92 20.96%
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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Sellest View Post
    keep getting gear upgrades until content is easy enough for you to overcome. \
    problem is there comes a point when guild is farming 9-10/14 HC for some time with no visible progress when your people get nearly all possible slots on HC which they could have got and then what ? stay on this boss for month 2 months ? have seen already few guilds crumble on my server for exackly this issue and many more incoming when they wont have enough recruit possibility of already pre geared people -_- yes gear is quite easy to get but what my guild has sadly had to overcome in last month if u replace half of your team due to holidays/sub run out-taking break - sudden guild jumps - u can forget about a progres untill new recruits get some gear and learn the encounters -_- what is funny we lost a disc priest to higher progressed guild - 3 weeks have passed and the guild he joined stoped raiding due to people saying "just no more" and now he begs to take him back -_-

    i know few people who have already taken a break "untill WoD or nerfs hit" cause of how bored with the raid they are already and for whom 9-10HC boss kill in this tier is just enough they dont feel any presure to kill garosh on hc -_-
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2014-01-17 at 03:50 PM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Sellest View Post
    Sorry average Joe but by getting better gear is basically content being nerfed for you. With better gear you are able to overcome harder challenges. I honestly think that Blizzard did very good job with ramp up of difficulty from normal to heroic and also heroic progression seems to be really good. So my advise - keep getting gear upgrades until content is easy enough for you to overcome. Content should be challenging, not faceroll. If some difficulty is too hard for you, well maybe it means you are not supposed to beat this difficulty.
    The problem is if people hit the point where "due to your raid's skill level, you are not supposed to beat this", then they are done and unsubscribe from the game. Who knows whether they will be back for WoD or not. That's not in anyone's best interest: world becomes more empty, friends stop coming around, Blizz sees subscriber drops and decides to cut back the development budget, etc.

    Basically, once people have capped out on upgrades and are reaching the point where they just don't have the skill to move forward, it is in everyone's interest that content is nerfed gently. This lengthens the amount of time that the raiding content remains relevant, and makes it easier to prepare for next tier.

    I don't think we've reached that point yet. People are still slowly getting bosses down, for now. But it won't remain that way for too much longer.

  3. #103
    Siegecrafter is getting his ass handed to him with these upcomming nerfs. Wha? Why this much?
    If he was FAR too hard then sure... apply ONE of those changes. Not all at once. They've had a long time to think about these nerfs, but they decide to do the exact same disaster that the Firelands nerfs were? Really?

    Also I am hearing from other sources that Paragons was easy on 10 man. Did it have to suffer those same nerfs, even if the 25 man version had to be adjusted?

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    Yeah at this point normal modes are a joke, let the casuals have 30%.
    I love posts like this.

    Did you actually see the stats where out of a 3.5 million player sample only 10% of WoW players are past Normal Thok?

    If normal modes are such a joke would the stat not be close to the number of people that have killed Thok LFR?

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Siegecrafter is getting his ass handed to him with these upcomming nerfs. Wha? Why this much?
    If he was FAR too hard then sure... apply ONE of those changes. Not all at once. They've had a long time to think about these nerfs, but they decide to do the exact same disaster that the Firelands nerfs were? Really?

    Also I am hearing from other sources that Paragons was easy on 10 man. Did it have to suffer those same nerfs, even if the 25 man version had to be adjusted?
    Until we see the updated tooltips I will reserve my judgment on these nerfs but hopefully my guild downs it before they're enacted.

  6. #106
    I would say something around the new season. They will see what affect the nerfs next week have on completion numbers, and see from that point how they should move forward.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Until we see the updated tooltips I will reserve my judgment on these nerfs but hopefully my guild downs it before they're enacted.
    Yeah this was first reaction type of stuff. If we see a 5% adjustment I won't really care, but at that point... why even bother at all. It just feels like a LOT of nerfs for what is being called the pinnacle of raiding. Anyway... we're definitely one heal and burning that boss now.

  8. #108
    And people tried to argue that nerfs weren't happening this tier lol.

    What you see on the front page is only the beginning. More will come in the future.

  9. #109
    The Patient PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    I believe a bit of reason is in order as pertains to the recent "nerfs" to Thok and beyond. My guild is currently 13/14 HC. Our GM has played in Envy, our DPS routinely rank in the top 50 (and on occasion the top 10) on WoL. We downed every one of the bosses in question before the slated fixes (and that is exactly what they truly are - fixes, not nerfs), and while I understand that these fixes may in some sense cheapen the feeling of accomplishment guilds that are within few percentages of a kill would have felt otherwise, let me assure you that the only unreasonable thing about them is that they were not enacted months ago.

    Let us look at them in detail, one by one:

    Thok: Fearsome Roar and Shock Blast damage nerfed - having only done this with 2 tanks, I question the necessity of the nerf to Fearsome Roar (presupposing, of course, that they do not in fact mean Deafening Screech, which would make far more sense), but the nerf to Shock Blast is entirely warranted. Either the frequency or the size of the blasts had to be reduced, as pre-fix, you had the choice between making the first 4-6 stacks dodgy (by solely using personals until stack 7) or getting shat all over if you tried to push beyond 20 stacks. We were fortunate enough to have extremely proficient healers that could very well have 2-healed it with enough practice, and even we had pulls that went tits-up before the 10th stack in phase 1 because Shock Blast+Screech took someone from 100-0% in the space of a global. I would have expected a nerf to Cave Bat HP as well, seeing as rotating stuns on them simply is not a "thing" on 10-man, and for most guilds, this forces a very short Poison phase as raid CDs have not come back up, which can make the overall DPS check tight.

    Siegecrafter: Don't get me started on this idiotically tuned boss. I love the encounter design, I love the theme - hell, I loved progressing on it for the 50 of the almost 400 pulls it took us where I was in, but the tuning of this boss in 10-man was completely out of whack from day 1. Lets have a look at the specific fixes and go from there.

    Magnetic Crush and Shredder Overload damage nerfed: I don't quite understand the former, but the latter is entirely warranted. Stack 3 hurt like a sonofabitch, and stack 4 was usually a one-shot through all but the strongest of personals or raid CDs - stuff that was needed elsewhere. I would perhaps have preferred that they simply fixed the issue of the shredder being nigh-unkillable for non-paladins and warriors with less than 4 stacks, but this will also work.

    Superheated damage nerfed: Superheated may seem like the most avoidable of things (don't stand in teh fire, gaise!!!!), but during Empowered Laser, anyone that had to go on belt and wasn't a hunter, ret paladin, rogue or druid was going to get stacks. Considering what each stack ticked for, some classes were simply SOL.

    Disassembled weapon HP nerf: Didn't stack hunters, rets, or rogues? Had bad luck with CDR trinket drops? Good luck reliably killing these things. We had at least 150 wipes down to one of our belt teams (out of necessity, not choice) being an Ele shaman and a Boomkin. If said laserchicken got bad crit RNG, we'd be up to 2 mil short on the weapon, and the Ele shaman suffered mightily from neither being able to immune Superheated, nor having spare globals to heal himself while trying to keep up on weapon damage.

    10-man Crawler Mine HP nerf: Ever seen a 10-man kill vid do more than the one mandatory wave of mines? Didn't think so. Considering that outside of some very, very restrictive raid comps (double druid, ele sham, warlock, mage, DW DK or some ridiculous comp like that), mines were absolute chaos, it forced 10-mans to constantly deal with drills instead. Outside of tuning issues, double drills is the only wildly difficult part of the fight, so I'd say that this particular fix should bring 10-man difficulty far closer to being in line with 25-man difficulty.

    Paragons: Hilariously undertuned joke fight on 10-man. The Multi-Shot and Fiery Edge fixes should have been 25-specific, or they should have made the Scorpion buff DPS-only, because as it is, this will take the fight from being slightly easier than Thok to being on par with Spoils in terms of 10-man difficulty. The fixes were absolutely warranted on 25-man, however - having watched double-digit hours worth of Paragons progress streams at this point, there's no doubt in my mind that this fight is the 25-man equivalent of 10-man Blackfuse.

    I decry the very idea of blanket nerfs. They're dumb, they break fights, they cheapen accomplishments, and they skew guilds' self-images. 8/8 HC DS guilds wiping to Stone Guards Normal was ridiculous, and it should never happen again. "Nerfs" like this, however, that in truth simply fix parts of fights that quite frankly are broken and overtuned to begin with, are the sort of balancing I hope Blizzard continues with, if in a more expeditious fashion next time around.

  10. #110
    I voted no. The "nerfs" that just happened were justified as tuning balance. For instance, 25m raids can roll around 6-7 healing cooldowns on thok, whereas a 10m might have only 3.

    They've said before that nerfs won't be needed now since we have the flex difficulty. Knowing Blizz, they could change their mind easily.

    Note: I would be in favor of an SoO nerf like ICC's. I think it progressively allows people to make some accomplishment.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Sellest View Post
    Sorry average Joe but by getting better gear is basically content being nerfed for you. With better gear you are able to overcome harder challenges. I honestly think that Blizzard did very good job with ramp up of difficulty from normal to heroic and also heroic progression seems to be really good. So my advise - keep getting gear upgrades until content is easy enough for you to overcome. Content should be challenging, not faceroll. If some difficulty is too hard for you, well maybe it means you are not supposed to beat this difficulty.
    You should totally make a hardcore game like this. You can call it "where the fuck are my customers!?"

    There comes a point where despite gear upgrades people hit a wall. Now if you were a company whose livelihood was dependant on people playing the game do you
    a) Stick by your principles and watch subs haemorrhage
    b) Make some aspects of fights easier to encourage people to stay subbed

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    You should totally make a hardcore game like this. You can call it "where the fuck are my customers!?"
    this comment totaly made my day a bit better thank u mr ^^ and +1 to it ofc

  13. #113
    Probably already been mentioned, but I do believe they're going to stray away from the blanket percentage nerfs and begin leaning towards the 'targeted difficulty adjustments' that we've recently witnessed. I'd personally prefer simple, flat reductions for the sheer sake of time saved opposed to going in for each boss and reducing/re-tuning a couple of things.

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