View Poll Results: 4 months out, how many players should've been able to defeat H Garrosh?

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  • <.25%

    524 32.27%
  • <2%

    545 33.56%
  • <5%

    266 16.38%
  • <10%

    136 8.37%
  • >10%

    153 9.42%
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  1. #221
    Dreadlord MeHMeH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Einsz View Post
    "The data used today is a sample made up of 6.2 million characters from 2.2 million accounts"

    I have 15 lvl 90s, 1 main that killed him guess thats 14 counted as not killing him, which is dumb since most of the people don't commit to raiding on alts yet due to that data is completely inaccurare and is more likely at around 2,3%
    I don't think it works like that, it looks if the account has killed it, not the char itself.
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  2. #222
    The problem starts when you think all 7 million players are even interested in heroic raids (or raids in general) and therefore 0.23% of 7 million is too little.

  3. #223
    Dreadlord MeHMeH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabsy View Post
    The problem isn't how raiding is exclusive. The fault lies in the skill of the community.
    Really... lol, of course not, it is not that the community does not want something and therefor they do not have the skill to do it. No, people just CBA to spend that much time on something they have already done on other difficulty levels.
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  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeShmo View Post
    My point still stands though, that even If the resources are cut in half, if only a very very small % of people are doing it then its wasted content (however "Epic" it may be ). But It could definitely lessen the strain that putting resources into 1% of the population would create, a mark-able improvement.
    Oh, I agree they put too much resources into content that so few will see. Even at this point less than 6% of guilds have cleared Ra-Den. Raid guilds are already a fraction of the game population. I think, considering Ra-Den is not even a last-tier-of-xpac boss, completion rate should be closer to 10-15 percent. 6-7 months after it went live, we'll probably have one or two percent of raid guilds having cleared heroic garrosh. I think that should be closer to 5 to 10 percent. That's still damn exclusive, considering how much gear you could have by that point, and the amount of attempts you could get in.

    I'm not even asking for things to be just easier enough for me to do them. Not by a long shot. My guild's probably gonna have around 5 heroic bosses in SoO cleared by the time WoD launches. I just think it'd be best for business, and the overall quality of the game, if they didn't put a disproportionate amount of resources toward the activities of such a small amount of the playerbase. Don't get me wrong -- I think it's healthy to cater at least somewhat to even the most niche (but still measurable) audiences ... but top 500 raid guilds simply get more love, dollar for dollar, than anyone. Their preferred activity gets subsidized by the casual playerbase, the overwhelming majority of which will never clear a heroic encounter, and most of which won't even full clear normal mode. And probably a plurality of which won't even step inside a normal-mode raid ever.

    Imagine what it'd be like if the major content of WoW were soloable quests. Major content patches designed around quest content ... with every raid being Trial of the Crusader / Firelands / Dragon Soul size, and only having maybe two or three of even those sized raids per xpac. That'd be much closer to proportional investment of resources based on player participation. I'm not at all saying it should be that way, but folks just really don't have proper perspective ...
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  5. #225
    Scarab Lord Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    Don't think it's only because people were unable to clear it, but because the entire game has been in decline and less people even bothered trying. There's also the fact that since the entire journey to the raid has become so godawful easy players are awful when they're actually able to try the HC raids and get destroyed. It's a mess, hoping WoD improves the numbers.
    Content is best consumed when it's challenging, but doable - not too hard, not too easy. Now average raiders can choose between too easy (normal) and too hard (heroic), that's not a good situation. They end up clearing normals quickly, then getting bored OR banging heads into hc bosses, progressing very slowly, while getting burnt out by the slow and hard progress.
    We need more difficulty levels, some gradual stuff - flex is already showing that it's possible. This should be the future.

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  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    Content is best consumed when it's challenging, but doable - not too hard, not too easy. Now average raiders can choose between too easy (normal) and too hard (heroic), that's not a good situation. They end up clearing normals quickly, then getting bored OR banging heads into hc bosses, progressing very slowly, while getting burnt out by the slow and hard progress.
    We need more difficulty levels, some gradual stuff - flex is already showing that it's possible. This should be the future.
    There is barely any notable difference between normal mode bosses and the first 10 heroic bosses. I highly doubt a guild that finds normal "too easy" is gonna find the first heroic bosses hard.
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  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    LFR is good for subs!
    One of the worst ideas blizzard has ever had for subs lol.
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  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    16,000 of 7,000,000 finishing last boss on a 4month old patch seems like a bit much? Opinions are opinions I guess. If I was developing this game, I'd want at least 100,000. At least.
    The hardest difficulty is supposed to be the hardest for a reason. Blizzard balances content for difficulty, not for "We want this % of players to be able to down it."

    If I was a game designer, I would try to make the final FINAL boss of an xpac as difficulty as possible while not being impossible. Seems like they hit a pretty good number this time.

    I don't see the point anyway, why not use the number of people who downed garrosh on normal? He's the same boss after all. The hardest boss in the game should only be downable by a relatively tiny amount of players. If you are going for the experience then you should be fine with normal. If you are going for the challenge then you should be glad it's so difficult. If you are going for the glory of downing it then it's all the much better when you actually do.

  9. #229
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    So few have killed Garrosh because the problem of the tier isn't Garrosh, it's Siegecrafter and Klaxxi. Both are very tedious bosses that require Lei Shen-like raid awareness and a fuck up early on will cost you the fight.

    Siegecrafter I find way more tedious because there are SO many things that can cause you to call a wipe, like: Belt failing for whatever reason, Tank dying(Losing stacks -> Can't kill Shredder -> Wipe), sawblade through raid, laser through raid.

    Klaxxi is a very buggy boss(pun intended), we have so far reached Xaril with our group and the amount of times Skeer hasn't cast 2nd Bloodletting or Hisek not casting 1st Aim or it just doesn't do anything(not counting Mage/Priest/Hunter/Rogue negating it with vanish mechanics) or maybe Korven's Amber not actually healing after it expires.
    It's just silly how many bugs this encounter has and it can sometimes screw you up or make you laugh.

    Garrosh is a gear check only. There is literally nothing that changes other than numbers(or at least things you should pay attention to), only new thing is P4 which can take a few actual tries to get a hang of.

  10. #230
    Altho - atm - I am no heroic raider, when I'm checking statistics I'm pleased with how gradually the % goes down, previously we had some content where X (x being kinda big)% of heroic raiding guilds were stuck on last boss, making it feel like hitting a brick wall, when I'm checking out % now, it seems like guilds can actually progress steadily through content without hitting that brick wall on the end.

  11. #231
    WoW is so easy now, not like the great vanilla or TBC, when it was so hard, dude!!!111 lol

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981 View Post
    The hardest difficulty is supposed to be the hardest for a reason. Blizzard balances content for difficulty, not for "We want this % of players to be able to down it."
    They've actually said multiple times that success/failure rates have a lot to do with how they re-balance (buff or nerf) encounters after they've gone live.
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  13. #233
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Going off the stats on the front page, 0.23% of players (not characters) have defeated Heroic Garrosh. Of the 2.2 million sampled, that comes out to be like 5,000 players. Also keep in mind we are exactly 4 months out from this patch's release and the final boss has been killed by a quarter of a percent of players. What do you guys think? Is this too much, or too little? At 4 months out, how many players do you think should've been able to defeat the last boss on heroic?
    I think it is pretty accurate and consistent also concerning older content like in WotLK and Cata pre-LFR, but while we had normal and HM raids.

    I have no numbers for TBC and Naxx, maybe somebody has, I believe pre-3.0 the amount of guilds that cleared SWP or pre 2.0 Naxx would be similar (approx 250 guilds in SoO HM on wowprogress). Possibly even less? Especially in Naxx?
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  14. #234
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    I often read 16.000 out of 7 Million, I think those stats on the frontpage are weird. Sure, it might be .23% out of 7 Million, but according to Wowprogress, only ~500k are raiders:

    Total amount of unique players that killed any boss in Tier 16 Normal: 492,898
    Active unique players that killed any boss in Tier 16 Normal: 466,490 (94.64%)

    Total amount of unique players that killed any boss in Tier 16 Heroic: 173,489
    Active unique players that killed any boss in Tier 16 Heroic: 169,454 (97.67%)

    http://www.wowprogress.com/stats

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by dabsy View Post
    The problem isn't how raiding is exclusive. The fault lies in the skill of the community.
    The problem is that the "skill" doesn't fall from the sky. You need a LOT of time and dedication to reach that level of skill, not to mention having 10 or 25 people reaching the skill together. Please don't tell me that anyone of those 0.23% is playing 2 hours a night, 3 nights a week. This "skill" argument is crap

  16. #236
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    Can it be that with raid finder they stay subbed 1 week longer?
    Sure. It might even be two or three weeks. And that time period may extend over a payment date causing them to extend for one mor month than they would have otherwise. It all counts.

    My point is that people are going to leave when they feel they've wrapped up whatever it is they want to do regardless of whether Raid Finder is there or not. The notion that Raid Finder is making masses of people leave earlier than they might otherwise is suspect since the typical user of Raid Finder probably isn't really doing normal/heroic raiding and likely hasn't in some time if at all. Flex may change that equation but I don't think it's been around long enough for people who normally never raid and have never pugged to get all that excited by it (although I think they should be). The typical entrance requirements for a flex pug are something of a turn-off and if you've not seen the raid at all, starting your own flex group is probably an intimidating thought.

    Social acceptance is a big deal for Flex--it's off to a decent start, stupid pug requirements aside--and the thread that turned up over on the Blizz boards inviting people without the achievement and a 520 ilevel is a good thing and hopefully that sort of thing will spread with the new group finder in WoD.

    I'm not surprised by the low rate for heroic though and don't consider that a bad thing either.
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  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    They've actually said multiple times that success/failure rates have a lot to do with how they re-balance (buff or nerf) encounters after they've gone live.
    With that I do think they mean the successrate between differnt bosses. Say Boss 4 is killed by 10000 guilds, boss 5 by 4000 guilds and boss 6 by 3900 guilds, then obviously boss 5 is kinda out of place in terms of difficulty relative to the other bosses.

    The addition of different itterations was basically so that they could have different modes with super high and super low successrate without giving 5 cents about how low or high it was.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #238
    The problem is that the "skill" doesn't fall from the sky. You need a LOT of time and dedication to reach that level of skill, not to mention having 10 or 25 people reaching the skill together. Please don't tell me that anyone of those 0.23% is playing 2 hours a night, 3 nights a week. This "skill" argument is crap

    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    I often read 16.000 out of 7 Million, I think those stats on the frontpage are weird. Sure, it might be .23% out of 7 Million, but according to Wowprogress, only ~500k are raiders:
    Does it matter? Blizzard is making the game for the 7 million, not for the raiders. 7 million pay for the game, oh, well, 2.2 million, so their interest is too not spend to much time catering for 16.000, otherwise the other 7 million - 16.000 will get angry... That's why there is LFR

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    ... and if they are just at 0.30% at 5.5 months, will we need to wait for another 3 months before they are accurate?

    Am I the only one that finds it a bit odd that we, as a playerbase, have come to accept that content that we pay a subscription for is just expected to last for 6 or 8 months without being updated?
    But it's true, pretty much everyone has 20k achievement points these days. Pretty much everyone has finished WoW already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Blizzard also stated that they wish they never added LFR or "Tourist Mode" as GC referred to it as.
    You will of course identify where "Blizzard" said that?

  20. #240
    Scarab Lord Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    There is barely any notable difference between normal mode bosses and the first 10 heroic bosses. I highly doubt a guild that finds normal "too easy" is gonna find the first heroic bosses hard.
    I stopped raiding mid Cata (and don't even play often ever since). Back then it was like this for our group: normal bosses are easy as hell, most go down in 2-4 pulls, except endbosses which require dozens of pulls. HC bosses start where normal endbosses left off, HC endbosses require much more effort. Has something changed regarding this difficulty curve?

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