View Poll Results: 4 months out, how many players should've been able to defeat H Garrosh?

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  • <.25%

    523 32.24%
  • <2%

    545 33.60%
  • <5%

    266 16.40%
  • <10%

    135 8.32%
  • >10%

    153 9.43%
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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    It's all about prioritizing. Anyone who is fit to play this game can find at least 5-10 hours a week on average to play it. The average adult works 40 hours a week by regulation, and sleeps 7 hours a night. Account for 1 hour of travelling and you have 6 hours of spare time at home each week day, and 17 hours each weekend. Ofcourse you may have obligations such as cooking, cleaning, family business, other hobbies. But honestly, if you really wanted to play the game you'd be able to find those 5-10 hours. I have raided with many working family men and while they haven't been able to attend every raid they've all kept an attendance over 90% with three 4 hour raids a week.

    Now, I myself managed to clear 14 normal and 8 heroic bosses in about 2 months raiding 8 hours a week. I wasn't carried by any means, my entire guild started a month in to the new raid in Tier 14 gear. Don't come with this bullshit that there's no way an adult with a family can find time for the game, it's all about what you prefer to do with your free time. If you'd rather watch TV or have a drink with your mates that's your call, you can't place that on the game or on anyone else.
    Of course it's an exaggeration that every family man can't commit to raiding but there's 1 thing you're failing to mention here, and that's schedule time rather than random time.

    Many people can quite easily spend 10 hours a week playing WoW, the issue is that a lot of people simply can't commit the SAME 10 hours every week to playing WoW. Especially those with kids and wives or shift work

  2. #402
    Game's too easy.
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  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    How much development time is spent on the one arena we get each expansion compared to the all the raids? Plus all arenas are open to anyone that can queue with one or more players.
    Are you serious? Every freakin patch (and hotfixes) are all about class balance because of PvP. It gets the same development time if not more than raids. Last I heard raids are also open for anyone that can queue.

  4. #404
    and that is the problem with warcraft, 0% of the people that did not accomplish this don't give a shit.

    If this game was any form of its past self people would be in shock and awe at the sight of a guild clearing this, cause it would have been raiding, not normal(some tiny relevance of challenge)/heroic(raiding)/flex(LFR without random people)/LFR(even an aborted fetus can clear)

    the numbers would naturally be higher if the game development philosophy had not have changed, and heroic might be a little bit easier then it is today comparing this to raiding pre-Wrath, it is more difficult in some ways.
    "From the first to the end of the Sixth Generation of consoles, for THIRTY FOUR YEARS, this is what gaming was and it was FANTASTIC! You enjoyed the experience and gaming was what it was supposed to be FUN, COMPLETE, no DLC back then the new content was called a sequel and we waited eagerly for it."

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  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    None of those offer anywhere near the rewards of raiding perhaps it would an idea if they allowed access to the same level of reward?
    What do you mean? The rewards offered through raiding are generally: 1-2 mounts per tier, 1 title per tier, and 0-4 battle pets. Aside from that, the rewards are gear. I don't understand the mentality of "I have no intention of ever doing any heroic mode SoO boss, but I'll be damned if I don't need 570 ilevel gear" What do you need this gear for, exactly? You get all the other stuff (mounts/pets/titles) from the content Firefly33 mentioned. You get gear from most of them too. You just don't get the best, high end gear, from that content. Why do you need it though?


    You're a no win type of person. Challenge modes are a perfect example. Your rewards are transmog items, a mount, and a title. Again I ask, if you have no interest in doing any SoO heroic, why do you need SoO heroic item level gear? Doesn't make any sense beyond "I want it because I do".

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monoxide View Post
    History proves you wrong, though. TBC had "brutal" 5 mans, and what did we get in Wrath? Do you remember those 5 mans? Then people complained, like you, that they wanted challenging 5 man content, and that it was too easy in Wrath. Enter Cata launch 5 mans. Remember how those got nerfed 1-2 months in? Now look at Mop 5 mans. It's a repeating cycle, Blizzard release challenging 5 man content, some people enjoy it, most find it too difficult. Next expansion Blizzard releases dumbed down 5 man content, and people complain it's too easy, so next expansion they ramp up the difficulty again and met with complaints that it's too hard.

    How does Blizzard win? I stand by my statement that the problem is not the game, but the player.
    Again you're operating under the false assumption that I want players to be pushed into hard heroic 5 mans. You obviously didn't read what I wrote so i'll just repeat it.

    You fall under the assumption that there's only 2 difficulties possible "mind numbingly boring easy content" and "cutting edge heroic", that's not true. They could very well add a new 5 man difficulty of TBC or Cata level difficulty that isn't forced into random match making and isn't mandatory.

    Allow players to use LFD to do normal or current heroic 5 mans, then add a "mythic" 5 man difficulty that isn't queue-able on LFD, much like how heroic scenarios work today.

    Everybody's a winner, especially when you can perhaps intertwine some hard 5 mans into a patch long storyline at some point

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    And what exactly is quality content for other 99.7%? Since I didn't killed Garrosh on HC I am in that category. And I like heroic raiding and still progressing through it. What would you like?
    Anything that avoids spending every day logging and playing the game that your guild wants you to play.

    You may as well not even play from my pov.

    Remember what it was like to enjoy playing a game?

    Well raiding in general is the antithesis of fun

  8. #408
    1% ends up being the general median of those clearing the end boss on heroic. So, I'd say it's roughly where it usually is, but between LFR and disinterest I'd say it is lower than before. (Also later bosses are tuned harder than usual) In an ideal world with people who gave a crap and weren't awful, yes there should be many more kills. As it stands this is just par the course.

    Summary of thread: People are lazy, generally shit AND don't care (as a majority). Nothing to see here.

    This one time at Brand Camp, I got Singed.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywire5714 View Post
    What, didn't you know? Progress ends once you have completed LFR.
    because in todays gearing up unless you are one of the lucky ones to be in a good skilled group of people that can skip LFR guess what you get the see the same bosses weeks on end 4 Fking DIFFICULTIES! tell me how is this fun / intuitive or good design? The BC model worked. GC and blizzs direction of content for everyone is why the population has declined so much. In both terms of sheer numbers and trolls. Guild Leaders wouldn't tolerate trolls. Anyone that was halfway interested in raiding with their class knew how to play it. Nowadays people use honor buddy to level for them and farm lfr and its "look guyz i haz purpz huntard can i join raid group". This game is a total failure and disgrace of what it use to be. If pandas and pokemon wont do it for you then the horrible community should be a major stepping stone. Ive put 8 years into the game ( off and on during MoP ). Man the whole structure is just bad these days. They try to do so much give so much they get a lot of shit wrong instead of doing only a couple things right. On top of the community raiding and the talent systems are my biggest issues. LFG was needed more or less. LFR should never have existed. /endrant

    If you enjoy the game more power to ya. None of my old friends do and we just wait for something else to come along to offer something better. And as bad as I talk about wow right now... sadly its still the better option for entertainment.
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  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    Anyways, what I wanted to say, there is enough content for everyone. Unfortunately, if you spend same amount of time as heroic raider in game and not raiding you will not have any content left. That's why it's called casual content - if you log for few hours a week you sure have a lot of stuff to do. As someone said, problem is in difficult content which is not raiding - for people who like challenge but can't afford to raid at given times. I mean, they can make more world bosses, more pet battles, more dungeons - but what's the point when you consume it in few days? If there is no hard content why bother playing? To do dailies every day and have a farm?
    Well, yes, I definitely agree that the problem is too little (like, next to no) difficult content outside of raids. I'd like them to add much more of that content. Like, add 200 bosses to Brawler's Guild (and make them drop gear, ideally).

    I just wanted to say that the number of people who are into raiding is, in all likeliness, even smaller than what the percentages in the chart suggest.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Again you're operating under the false assumption that I want players to be pushed into hard heroic 5 mans. You obviously didn't read what I wrote so i'll just repeat it.

    You fall under the assumption that there's only 2 difficulties possible "mind numbingly boring easy content" and "cutting edge heroic", that's not true. They could very well add a new 5 man difficulty of TBC or Cata level difficulty that isn't forced into random match making and isn't mandatory.

    Allow players to use LFD to do normal or current heroic 5 mans, then add a "mythic" 5 man difficulty that isn't queue-able on LFD, much like how heroic scenarios work today.

    Everybody's a winner, especially when you can perhaps intertwine some hard 5 mans into a patch long storyline at some point
    I'm sorry but it's you that isn't reading. You mentioned TBC and Cata 5 mans, and so did I. You keep saying there can be more than 2 choices of "mind numblingly boring easy content" and "cutting edge heroic". How do you classify the 5 mans of WoW's expansions? In your eyes, TBC and Cata had good 5 mans. The vast majority of the community complained they were TOO DIFFICULT. Maybe you didn't play in TBC and are just pretending, or maybe you just don't remember, but there was no queue system in TBC. You formed your own 5 man group, you didn't get queued in with strangers. People STILL complained they were too hard, and because of that, in the next expansion, we got the Wrath 5 mans, which EVERYONE complained was "mind numblingly boring easy content", and so Blizzard ramped up the difficulty in Cata, another example you gave of good 5 man content. GUESS WHAT, people complained again that it was too difficult.

    Don't get pissy and try to talk down to me like I don't understand your post. I do, it's you who doesn't understand what I'm saying.

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Of course it's an exaggeration that every family man can't commit to raiding but there's 1 thing you're failing to mention here, and that's schedule time rather than random time.

    Many people can quite easily spend 10 hours a week playing WoW, the issue is that a lot of people simply can't commit the SAME 10 hours every week to playing WoW. Especially those with kids and wives or shift work
    That's still about prioritizing. I know not everyone can make it, but far more than you think. People just bitch and moan about it taking too much time when in reality they don't do anything useful in that time. They could just as easily switch cooking days with their wives if that's how they do it or simply come up with another way of finding the time. One of my better friends used to take a 10 minute break every raid to put his son to bed, and that was fine as he mostly found a time to do it during trash. If not we'd just take our break around that time, since it was always occuring mid raid.

    People just see the limitations, not the possibilities. If you truly enjoy doing something you'll nearly always find a way.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    And what exactly is quality content for other 99.7%? Since I didn't killed Garrosh on HC I am in that category. And I like heroic raiding and still progressing through it. What would you like?
    Appearently all of those 99.7% want the same single thing. PvPers, those who only do LFR, altoholics, complete casuals who aren't even 90, roleplayers or actual raiders who might have had Garrosh on 100k hp at the time these charts were made.

    Taking myself, I haven't PvPed in ages. I only did pet battles few times. I barely care about achievements. I raid heroics and expect to finish them in couple weeks. And supposedly, all of these 99.7% are the same as me... or are they?

    Seriously, these threads... Unless those numbers will be in double digits, there will be the same crap posted over and over. And even if they are >10%, someone will complain about it being lower than 20. Or 30.

  14. #414
    I don't see why there has to be a quota to beat some end-game boss.
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  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by sethman75 View Post
    Anything that avoids spending every day logging and playing the game that your guild wants you to play.

    You may as well not even play from my pov.

    Remember what it was like to enjoy playing a game?

    Well raiding in general is the antithesis of fun
    Actually no. Raiding for me is fun. If it's not fun for you don't do it. Go plant a carrot

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Vishiz View Post
    yeah, lets not reward people for their loyalty and dedication, instead lets tell em to screw off and pander to the people who honestly couldn't give two shits anyway.

    If LFR was the hardest difficulty, there would still be people asking for something easier. Lets see how many percent of players have killed Garrosh on lfr... you think thats more than 50%? Maybe just remove raiding all together since its obviously all a waste of time and install farmville since i can tend my crops and get everything i need done in just a couple minutes a day.

    Blizzard has been putting countless hours into finding something that the "casuals" can spend time on, i mean just look at all the random riff raff thats been added this expac with challenge modes, flex modes, still have lfr, normal modes, many more reputations, better farming, easier alt leveling, better profession leveling. And yet all i see is a bunch of ungrateful people still asking for more cause 1 tiny aspect of the game isn't for them. Well here's a thought, maybe the game isn't for you.

    I mean, what do you want that isn't already there? Name something that would give you countless hours of gameplay and keep 70% of the population interested.

    Heroics are simply an overtuned version of normals, much less time going into tuning em than goes into making the actual encounter itself.
    I am sorry I must have missed the part when raiders are more loyal and pay for the game than everyone else.

    Seeing as of December only 11% of accounts surveyed by MMO-C had completed wing 4 in SoO would seem that raiding does not fit the bill of keeping 70% population entertained.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    16000 is how many raid teams?

    Imagine a room of 16000 people. That is a ton of people. All of those people have completed the hardest content around.
    You're putting the numbers with no real context but alas, if you want to go with that, imagine the 6984000 people who didn't kill Garrosh HC in a room. That is many tonnes of people.

    Things like this are relative, hence the use of percentages.
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  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monoxide View Post
    I'm sorry but it's you that isn't reading. You mentioned TBC and Cata 5 mans, and so did I. You keep saying there can be more than 2 choices of "mind numblingly boring easy content" and "cutting edge heroic". How do you classify the 5 mans of WoW's expansions? In your eyes, TBC and Cata had good 5 mans. The vast majority of the community complained they were TOO DIFFICULT. Maybe you didn't play in TBC and are just pretending, or maybe you just don't remember, but there was no queue system in TBC. You formed your own 5 man group, you didn't get queued in with strangers. People STILL complained they were too hard, and because of that, in the next expansion, we got the Wrath 5 mans, which EVERYONE complained was "mind numblingly boring easy content", and so Blizzard ramped up the difficulty in Cata, another example you gave of good 5 man content. GUESS WHAT, people complained again that it was too difficult.

    Don't get pissy and try to talk down to me like I don't understand your post. I do, it's you who doesn't understand what I'm saying.
    In TBC they were mandatory because they were required to get into any form of raiding (attunements) and offered gear which people needed.

    In Cata they were mandatory because they were there to gear up into raiding, and making them matchmaking was ridiculous.

    My idea is to add a 5 man difficulty that is NOT mandatory but more a side step from raiding for those who have no wish to raid, with easier versions (normal/heroic) available for those who just want to get gear quickly. Much like heroic scenarios weren't mandatory for people to get into raiding when they were added to the game, they were a more difficult alternative to what was available.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    16000 is how many raid teams?

    Imagine a room of 16000 people. That is a ton of people. All of those people have completed the hardest content around.
    Tell that to the people who keep saying WoW is dead. Hell, 7 million people are a shit load of people, esp since it's that time of the expansion's cycle.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    Are you serious? Every freakin patch (and hotfixes) are all about class balance because of PvP. It gets the same development time if not more than raids. Last I heard raids are also open for anyone that can queue.
    Are you? Do you honestly think a hotfix takes anywhere near the development time as a raid? So I just log on with a fresh level 90 and experience HC Garrosh in the same way as I can experience every arena?

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