37 + (3*7) + (3*7)W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/5/5 | TPR: 0/2/2SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1Legendary Overlooked
WoW is full of instant gratification, moreso than almost any other game.
The levelling up noise, the screen popups, the regular loot while levelling, the exploration noise. All tiny little bits of instant gratification all the way through.
As you head towards endgame the effect of some of these starts to wear off for some people, and delayed gratification plays a bigger part.
The inclusion of these is also not affected by the existence of heroic raiding. If people want delayed gratification from difficult content it doesn't stop others from going to do LFR or flex or normal. Or from enjoying questing or any other aspect of the game.
The sweet spot for this, for some, comes right before it becomes too hard for them to beat. A similar thing can be seen in many, many activities that people like. The point at which they enjoy it most is the furthest they can push it and still win.
This isn't exclusive to raiding either. If someone has worked to obtain the insane title or loremaster they are more likely to use that than some of the easier to obtain titles.
That's about the percentage of highschool to professional sports.
So imagine getting wow account is like subscribing to wow, and heroic raiding is like getting into professional league.
Student-Athletes Basketball Football Baseball Ice Hockey
High School to Professional 0.03% 0.09% .5% .4%
Just the fact you've beaten it is the main reward, although the other things also gain increased value.
As I said a mount from a heroic end boss has more perceived value than a mount obtained from something easier.
You might not come for the gear, but the perceived value of gear that drops from a difficult boss is greater than the perceived value of gear from an easy boss. Whether you turn up for it or not.
Also, sometimes it can be about the gear, much less so after many years though. I'm pretty sure the very first people to walk get their hands on full tier one were pretty please to have done so, and looked pretty badass in a world before transmog and raid tiers into 2 figures. This effect wears off pretty quickly though, as once you've replaced a couple of gearsets you don't really care.
Some games rely almost solely on it being about the gear, although WoW isn't one of them. I'm not going to pretend that bosses don't drop loot, and that especially end of expansion boss loot is for any purpose other than trying to rank on farm and to say "look I beat Garrosh heroic". Same as I'm not going to pretend that the titles are for anything other than that. They are there to say "look I did a thing".
It is laughable to suggest that WOW is not all about gear, no-one would run the content on offer multiple times if it was not for gear.
Gear upgrades are a factor in any level of gameplay right from level 1 questing, but they aren't the only factor in play. Maybe you want to see where the questline is going, maybe you just want to do all the quests, maybe you want the XP, maybe you want the gear.
I don't know all the reasons why people who have beaten Garrosh did so.
I do, however, know that people will run content even when they can't get any gear from it. So there must be reasons beyond gear. Including just wanting to practice, wanting to get DPS/HPS ranks, wanting to spend some time with your guild, even possibly, as shocking as it sounds, because you actually enjoy the content.
The reason instant gratification was brought into things was the mention of games which functioned purely on this idea.
My argument is that WoW does not exist solely on that, and that there are other factors in play, throughout the game.
The reason heroic raiding is the opposite of instant gratification is simply that the end boss is the end boss. It's the biggest delay that you can have in PvE, because it's the boss that by default you are furthest from, however close or far you are from killing it.
That says nothing about who LIKES instant gratification and who is above it and whatnot. It just says that the endboss is the boss furthest away. People do tend to get the most satisfaction from being on the edge of what they can do though. If beating normal modes or flex feels like a real challenge then it'll feel like an accomplishment when you beat it.
I remember my first 5 man heroic dungeon. It was Violet Hold. Xevozz came out (the ethereal boss you have to kite). I thought he was really hard. Constantly moving and trying to tank a boss at the same time. In the end when we killed him it was with my guildmate taunting him off me when the orbs spawned. It felt really good to finish that dungeon.
Now everyone knows that violet hold was, in the grand scheme of things, not a difficult place. At that time though, it felt like the hardest MMO content I had ever done, and probably was. The more I killed 5 man heroic bosses though, the more I was comfortable with killing them, so I felt less accomplishment from doing so. They were no longer on the edge of what I could do, so I looked for more difficult content. If you can believe it, I found Naxxramas fell under the more difficult content bracket for me and moved into raiding from there.
The fact that at that around that time people were killing Algalon 25 and progressing on Yogg +0 didn't detract from me working my way through heroic 5 mans and Naxx.
People killing Garrosh doesn't mean that people working on their first level 90 5 man need to feel any less accomplishment when they beat it than I did when I finished Violet Hold.
He is out there though, standing in a room underneath Orgrimmar. Whether people want to kill him or not he is the current end to the PvE progression road.
And people who find Violet Hold difficult can kill him.
On the one hand, it makes (profoundly good) sense for more challenging content to give better rewards.
But on the other hand, let's look at the snag in that, which is that WoW content is much, much easier for players in coordinated groups -- and for many players in WoW, coordinated groups of like-minded people are not that easy to find these days.
* Creating new guilds with small numbers of close friends is not really a thing any more thanks to "guild perks."
* You have your choice of high-pop/full realms with continuously scrolling chat spam dominated by idiots (who run in huge packs), or medium-pop realms where you might be able to find 3 people who are fun to be around but never 4, or low-pop realms where you can farm Pandaren rares to your heart's content but you are the only lifeform in the zone
* You are just not given means to find people of your "ilk" in this game, not by Blizzard, especially if what you want is somewhat restrained, adult behavior
Given that a randomly assembled group of 5 adventurers probably has a harder time with a normal 5-man than a group of guildies does with a heroic 5-man where the mobs have 2-4x the health and damage, I would be comfortable arguing that solo queued random players should be HUGELY more rewarded than coordinated groups, because content is faceroll for coordinated groups, while it is difficult in many different ways for solo players.
I might be arguing the wrong side, and I'm not sure I even agree with myself, but the game is so easy for groups that I wonder if they should even be rewarded for playing that way.
From a brief read of these forums I'd assumed the figure was about 90% of all players have killed HC Garrosh and that he was way too easy!
Secondly, look at all the content in WoW that offers 0 gear upgrade and is still run. There's your argument gone in one. WoW is NOT all about gear, people DO run content multiple times with no gear upgrade.
It is not a fact that everyone raids, or do anything in this game, because of gear. Gear is a huge factor in this game, as it's used as reward in pretty much every aspect of the game. It is also a tool which will help you defeat more challenging content. This does not mean it's the only thing that drives people into playing. People get different satisfaction from playing, and some will not give a rats ass about gear, while others will be the exact oposite. Then you have those in between. That's just how it is. Saying everyone plays to get gear, is stupid and narrowminded.
I am an ex raider, and I have never cared for gear. I raided to prove to myself that I could beat challenging encounters, and I raided because I found the teamwork required from organised raiding at a more challenging level, thrilling. I also liked the mechanics and my role in the raid. It was fun, and it offered me gameplay I could not obtain solo. The gear was nothing more than a tool, helping my team progress quicker, or beat something we could not beat without it. I enjoyed optimizing my gear too, but this came with TBC and had nothing to do with obtaining gear. It was about utilizing what I already had equipped, comparing and mixing stats. In vanilla, I didn't understand gear very well, because the rest of the game was more appealing.
You are basicly telling me I don't exist, but I am sorry. I just don't find gear a motivator.
Cool fight, glad I have been able to kill him
Do I Smell Hate Aroma?!?
The subject of the thread is about raids therefore I would have though the context of my comment would be obviously be in regards to raiding. Typical behaviour is that guilds run raids until either most of their raiders have all or close to all the gear they need at which point activity will decline or they run it until the next tier is released and they abandon the current one. There will undoubtedly be people that run content for reasons other than gear but as a whole it is primary motivator at max level. I don't know why you think this is a bad thing.