View Poll Results: 4 months out, how many players should've been able to defeat H Garrosh?

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  • <.25%

    524 32.27%
  • <2%

    545 33.56%
  • <5%

    266 16.38%
  • <10%

    136 8.37%
  • >10%

    153 9.42%
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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    Hey it took at least 029348029340923 hours of development time to add a couple blobs to immerseus.
    Yep, that's all they had to do to make heroic Immersius.

    They absolutely did not need to hire/pay for two testing teams for both 10man and 25man to spend an undisclosed number of man hours playtesting that encounter before it was ever released.

    I imagine some of the 10man team is rolled into the 25man team but if not, that's 35 salaries to pay who knows how many hours to playtest for each raid tier. Not counting the salaries of the team (read: more than 1 person) that creates and balances all the damage numbers for each ability the boss has and spreadsheets/sims that and the healing required/tank damage mitigated/avoided all out to determine what raid composition it takes to complete the script.

    It's not like just 1 button pusher making minimum wage decides, "hey, let's just add two more blobs to Immersius and call it a day! Jim, you want to go to Subway for dinner?"
    Last edited by Raeln; 2014-01-10 at 06:57 AM.

  2. #202
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    "but but the game is so casual and easy blah blah blah BC was so much more epic cause attunements and other BS"
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  3. #203
    The Lightbringer Paula Deen's Avatar
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    I am sorry, but need I point out that we are only about 4 months into the Siege.... these numbers are not quite accurate yet we should be waiting about 2 and a half more months before we judge the numbers.

  4. #204
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    Thats fine in my book. Carrot on a stick is what keeps people raiding after all. 6000ish isn't a big loss and the majority of those are so hardcore they'll keep farming mats and grinding gold, playing alts to ready for the next expansion anyway.

    ...*cough*
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Yep, that's all they had to do to make heroic Immersius.

    They absolutely did not need to hire/pay for two testing teams for both 10man and 25man to spend an undisclosed number of man hours playtesting that encounter before it was ever released.

    I imagine some of the 10man team is rolled into the 25man team but if not, that's 35 salaries to pay who knows how many hours to playtest for each raid tier.
    So they have essentially 35 people on actually noteworthy salary sitting around dedicated only for testing encounters. Yeah. Right. Just tell me when I am allowed to stop laughing.
    Oh out of curiosity though since I forgot - eu or us ? I really want to get to that magical land where my alts will be carried afk by heroic raiders in lfr.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2014-01-10 at 07:00 AM.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    Didn't read the whole thing but wanted to comment on this part. With the raid changes in WoD, they'll actually be spending less total time tuning/designing mythic encounters, since they only have to design for / test one version: 20 player. Honestly I'd say testing time will be less than half, actually -- not only would they have to test both, but they'd have to try to make sure they were both not just properly tuned but also as close to similarly difficult between the two sizes as possible. As in, 10 heroic with a smaller assumption of available classes/buffs has to be approximately as difficult as 25, with full assumption of all buffs and classes ... without a 10-heroic group with all buffs having too easy a time.

    Normal and heroic in WoD will actually need more development time than before, due to the flex technology. They'll want to make sure every raid size from 10-25 is appropriately tuned. They'll probably err on the same side they did with Flex as it currently exists, where it's tuned to be easier on 25 than on 10 (assuming equal skill/gear for all players), but they will still need to make sure it's appropriately do-able on 10 and not faceroll on 25.

    I think in this way the amount of resources they put into Mythic will be more justified.
    That is a good point ( I think I touched a little on that idea in my post ) that by removing the 10 and 25 mans..and just making a single flex , It could help them streamline the balance process (since they stated that the flex system will just work based on proc % scales ) so they basically just need to get the encounter down pat for 10 players..and then the flex will auto scale it for them. Although im sure that the testing will need to be more extensive than that...but itll be more "focused" I guess. I still dont believe that the Mythical difficulty will be any easier to balance, but time will tell and we will see just how blizzard sets up mythic.

    My point still stands though, that even If the resources are cut in half, if only a very very small % of people are doing it then its wasted content (however "Epic" it may be ). But It could definitely lessen the strain that putting resources into 1% of the population would create, a mark-able improvement.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by MCBGamer View Post
    I am sorry, but need I point out that we are only about 4 months into the Siege.... these numbers are not quite accurate yet we should be waiting about 2 and a half more months before we judge the numbers.
    ... and if they are just at 0.30% at 5.5 months, will we need to wait for another 3 months before they are accurate?

    Am I the only one that finds it a bit odd that we, as a playerbase, have come to accept that content that we pay a subscription for is just expected to last for 6 or 8 months without being updated?

  8. #208
    Working on it now. Yet to see phase 3 burn yet.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    So they have essentially 35 people on actually noteworthy salary sitting around dedicated only for testing encounters. Yeah. Right. Just tell me when I am allowed to stop laughing.
    Oh out of curiosity though since I forgot - eu or us ? I really want to get to that magical land where my alts will be carried afk by heroic raiders in lfr.
    Where did I say they were dedicated to only playtesting?

    The "undisclosed hours" they spend playtesting is billed to.. playtesting though, that I guarantee. Projects have cost assignments factored in - many times down to individual component pieces. Wages are no different.

    As for EU or US, you'll have to figure that out. Geez, put forth some effort - or do you want me to just mail you your epics too?
    Last edited by Raeln; 2014-01-10 at 07:05 AM.

  10. #210
    High Overlord
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    10 first heroic bosses were too easy, but siege, klaxxi and garrosh seems to be fine. Im still looking forward for our first garrosh kill as we are playing pretty casually.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    Hey it took at least 029348029340923 hours of development time to add a couple blobs to immerseus.
    Dont you forget the time it took to copy pasta the trash from thok into the boss fight, or the time it took to change the amount of portals on norushen to 5 instead of 2. You havent even heard the craziest thing! On Nazgrim they developed an entirely new add that stands still and auto shoot. I imagine atleast 5 developers grew old and died of old age during that development.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  12. #212
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywire5714 View Post
    What, didn't you know? Progress ends once you have completed LFR.
    Does for me now days. I killed Hellscream on LFR, cancelled my sub right after. I used to be part of the 1% and I sure would have killed heroic Hellscream by now if I still raided. But I did that for 8 years. Now days I am more then happy just doing LFR and putting as little effort into wow as I can. I never want to commit to raids again. I could never go back to set nights of the week dedicated to wow.
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  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    As for EU or US, you'll have to figure that out. Geez, put forth some effort - or do you want me to just mail you your epics too?
    That would be great it's really annoying having to tab into the game every once in a while.
    Testing in some form is required for pretty much everything in this game including raids on all difficulties and considering how often world first guilds face hotfixes I have my doubts that those are too extensive on any case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Dont you forget the time it took to copy pasta the trash from thok into the boss fight, or the time it took to change the amount of portals on norushen to 5 instead of 2. You havent even heard the craziest thing! On Nazgrim they developed an entirely new add that stands still and auto shoot. I imagine atleast 5 developers grew old and died of old age during that development.
    Yep pretty sure that yeti programming took out the whole titan developer team as well.

  14. #214
    Dreadlord MeHMeH's Avatar
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    Heroic raids are breaking this game, barely anyone raids heroic, not even 0.25% has completed heroic content but there is allot of dev time needed for heroic, and the itemlevels are far to high in comparison with other gear.
    There, i said it, HC raiding should be discontinued. Now there are 4 levels of difficulty for raiding, it just makes the progressing part longer if you want to do them all, and it inflates the gear levels needlessly. In WOTLK it was kinda fun, the mechanics where different, you had to do something to make it more difficult even if it was only pushing a button, but mostly it was because there was nothing els to do. There was no LFR or flex, you had to do it on normal or on HC so people did. Now that there are other options, and people taking it, so it seems most cant be bothered to join a raiding guild anymore because of this. I too am no longer part of a raiding guild, for me it is the drama that makes me not want to raid. But there are many equally good reasons not wanting to spend hours a week raiding on set times.

    This game evolved to a level so everyone can raid and can see everything. Thats fine, but heroic raiding just does not fit into this game philosophy.
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  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Does for me now days. I killed Hellscream on LFR, cancelled my sub right after
    LFR is good for subs!
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #216
    Never tried Garrosh HC. Got up to Blackfuse then quit due to being bored of raiding. In my opinion the first 11 bosses were beyond a joke, with Dark Shamans kicking it up a notch then nazgrim, malk and spoils quickly pulling it back down.

    Even if you look on armory stats the massive drop from Thok HC (easy mode) to Blackfuse (the first hard boss) is HUGE nearly half of all thok hc killers haven't killed blackfuse, me included.

    In my opinion they should spread the difficulty out instead of just cluster them all at the end. One of the reasons i quit raiding was because of having to spend 3 pulls on malkorok due to imbeciles, 4 pulls on spoils, extra pulls here and there, by the time you get to Blackfuse you have 20 mins left on a 3 hour / 3 day a week raid guild. 2 days to progress Bfuse is nothing.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    16,000 of 7,000,000 finishing last boss on a 4month old patch seems like a bit much? Opinions are opinions I guess. If I was developing this game, I'd want at least 100,000. At least.
    Most people don't care about a boss enough to put in the ridiculous/tedious time it takes. It's more or less that, than difficulty issues.

  18. #218
    "The data used today is a sample made up of 6.2 million characters from 2.2 million accounts"

    I have 15 lvl 90s, 1 main that killed him guess thats 14 counted as not killing him, which is dumb since most of the people don't commit to raiding on alts yet due to that data is completely inaccurare and is more likely at around 2,3%

  19. #219
    Mechagnome
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    Im more surprised that so many has killed any HC boss.

    10% (of this sample) instant subloss if they scrapped HCs? I wouldn't even have bought the game if normal like its now were the only setting.

  20. #220
    The problem isn't how raiding is exclusive. The fault lies in the skill of the community.

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