0.23% of Players Defeated Heroic Garrosh

[sethman75]

And what exactly is quality content for other 99.7%? Since I didn't killed Garrosh on HC I am in that category. And I like heroic raiding and still progressing through it. What would you like?

Anything that avoids spending every day logging and playing the game that your guild wants you to play.

You may as well not even play from my pov.

Remember what it was like to enjoy playing a game?

Well raiding in general is the antithesis of fun

[Krommm]

1% ends up being the general median of those clearing the end boss on heroic. So, I'd say it's roughly where it usually is, but between LFR and disinterest I'd say it is lower than before. (Also later bosses are tuned harder than usual) In an ideal world with people who gave a crap and weren't awful, yes there should be many more kills. As it stands this is just par the course.

Summary of thread: People are lazy, generally shit AND don't care (as a majority). Nothing to see here.

[tru]

What, didn't you know? Progress ends once you have completed LFR.

because in todays gearing up unless you are one of the lucky ones to be in a good skilled group of people that can skip LFR guess what you get the see the same bosses weeks on end 4 Fking DIFFICULTIES! tell me how is this fun / intuitive or good design? The BC model worked. GC and blizzs direction of content for everyone is why the population has declined so much. In both terms of sheer numbers and trolls. Guild Leaders wouldn't tolerate trolls. Anyone that was halfway interested in raiding with their class knew how to play it. Nowadays people use honor buddy to level for them and farm lfr and its "look guyz i haz purpz huntard can i join raid group". This game is a total failure and disgrace of what it use to be. If pandas and pokemon wont do it for you then the horrible community should be a major stepping stone. Ive put 8 years into the game ( off and on during MoP ). Man the whole structure is just bad these days. They try to do so much give so much they get a lot of shit wrong instead of doing only a couple things right. On top of the community raiding and the talent systems are my biggest issues. LFG was needed more or less. LFR should never have existed. /endrant

If you enjoy the game more power to ya. None of my old friends do and we just wait for something else to come along to offer something better. And as bad as I talk about wow right now... sadly its still the better option for entertainment.

[rda]

Anyways, what I wanted to say, there is enough content for everyone. Unfortunately, if you spend same amount of time as heroic raider in game and not raiding you will not have any content left. That's why it's called casual content - if you log for few hours a week you sure have a lot of stuff to do. As someone said, problem is in difficult content which is not raiding - for people who like challenge but can't afford to raid at given times. I mean, they can make more world bosses, more pet battles, more dungeons - but what's the point when you consume it in few days? If there is no hard content why bother playing? To do dailies every day and have a farm?

Well, yes, I definitely agree that the problem is too little (like, next to no) difficult content outside of raids. I'd like them to add much more of that content. Like, add 200 bosses to Brawler's Guild (and make them drop gear, ideally).

I just wanted to say that the number of people who are into raiding is, in all likeliness, even smaller than what the percentages in the chart suggest.

[Monoxide]

Again you're operating under the false assumption that I want players to be pushed into hard heroic 5 mans. You obviously didn't read what I wrote so i'll just repeat it.

You fall under the assumption that there's only 2 difficulties possible "mind numbingly boring easy content" and "cutting edge heroic", that's not true. They could very well add a new 5 man difficulty of TBC or Cata level difficulty that isn't forced into random match making and isn't mandatory.

Allow players to use LFD to do normal or current heroic 5 mans, then add a "mythic" 5 man difficulty that isn't queue-able on LFD, much like how heroic scenarios work today.

Everybody's a winner, especially when you can perhaps intertwine some hard 5 mans into a patch long storyline at some point

I'm sorry but it's you that isn't reading. You mentioned TBC and Cata 5 mans, and so did I. You keep saying there can be more than 2 choices of "mind numblingly boring easy content" and "cutting edge heroic". How do you classify the 5 mans of WoW's expansions? In your eyes, TBC and Cata had good 5 mans. The vast majority of the community complained they were TOO DIFFICULT. Maybe you didn't play in TBC and are just pretending, or maybe you just don't remember, but there was no queue system in TBC. You formed your own 5 man group, you didn't get queued in with strangers. People STILL complained they were too hard, and because of that, in the next expansion, we got the Wrath 5 mans, which EVERYONE complained was "mind numblingly boring easy content", and so Blizzard ramped up the difficulty in Cata, another example you gave of good 5 man content. GUESS WHAT, people complained again that it was too difficult.

Don't get pissy and try to talk down to me like I don't understand your post. I do, it's you who doesn't understand what I'm saying.

[Arainie]

Of course it's an exaggeration that every family man can't commit to raiding but there's 1 thing you're failing to mention here, and that's schedule time rather than random time.

Many people can quite easily spend 10 hours a week playing WoW, the issue is that a lot of people simply can't commit the SAME 10 hours every week to playing WoW. Especially those with kids and wives or shift work

That's still about prioritizing. I know not everyone can make it, but far more than you think. People just bitch and moan about it taking too much time when in reality they don't do anything useful in that time. They could just as easily switch cooking days with their wives if that's how they do it or simply come up with another way of finding the time. One of my better friends used to take a 10 minute break every raid to put his son to bed, and that was fine as he mostly found a time to do it during trash. If not we'd just take our break around that time, since it was always occuring mid raid.

People just see the limitations, not the possibilities. If you truly enjoy doing something you'll nearly always find a way.

[KaPe]

And what exactly is quality content for other 99.7%? Since I didn't killed Garrosh on HC I am in that category. And I like heroic raiding and still progressing through it. What would you like?

Appearently all of those 99.7% want the same single thing. PvPers, those who only do LFR, altoholics, complete casuals who aren't even 90, roleplayers or actual raiders who might have had Garrosh on 100k hp at the time these charts were made.

Taking myself, I haven't PvPed in ages. I only did pet battles few times. I barely care about achievements. I raid heroics and expect to finish them in couple weeks. And supposedly, all of these 99.7% are the same as me... or are they?

Seriously, these threads... Unless those numbers will be in double digits, there will be the same crap posted over and over. And even if they are >10%, someone will complain about it being lower than 20. Or 30.

[metasine]

I don't see why there has to be a quota to beat some end-game boss.

[Deleted]

Anything that avoids spending every day logging and playing the game that your guild wants you to play.

You may as well not even play from my pov.

Remember what it was like to enjoy playing a game?

Well raiding in general is the antithesis of fun

Actually no. Raiding for me is fun. If it's not fun for you don't do it. Go plant a carrot

[Pann]

yeah, lets not reward people for their loyalty and dedication, instead lets tell em to screw off and pander to the people who honestly couldn't give two shits anyway.

If LFR was the hardest difficulty, there would still be people asking for something easier. Lets see how many percent of players have killed Garrosh on lfr... you think thats more than 50%? Maybe just remove raiding all together since its obviously all a waste of time and install farmville since i can tend my crops and get everything i need done in just a couple minutes a day.

Blizzard has been putting countless hours into finding something that the "casuals" can spend time on, i mean just look at all the random riff raff thats been added this expac with challenge modes, flex modes, still have lfr, normal modes, many more reputations, better farming, easier alt leveling, better profession leveling. And yet all i see is a bunch of ungrateful people still asking for more cause 1 tiny aspect of the game isn't for them. Well here's a thought, maybe the game isn't for you.

I mean, what do you want that isn't already there? Name something that would give you countless hours of gameplay and keep 70% of the population interested.

Heroics are simply an overtuned version of normals, much less time going into tuning em than goes into making the actual encounter itself.

I am sorry I must have missed the part when raiders are more loyal and pay for the game than everyone else.

Seeing as of December only 11% of accounts surveyed by MMO-C had completed wing 4 in SoO would seem that raiding does not fit the bill of keeping 70% population entertained.

[Deleted]

16000 is how many raid teams?

Imagine a room of 16000 people. That is a ton of people. All of those people have completed the hardest content around.

You're putting the numbers with no real context but alas, if you want to go with that, imagine the 6984000 people who didn't kill Garrosh HC in a room. That is many tonnes of people.

Things like this are relative, hence the use of percentages.

[wych]

I'm sorry but it's you that isn't reading. You mentioned TBC and Cata 5 mans, and so did I. You keep saying there can be more than 2 choices of "mind numblingly boring easy content" and "cutting edge heroic". How do you classify the 5 mans of WoW's expansions? In your eyes, TBC and Cata had good 5 mans. The vast majority of the community complained they were TOO DIFFICULT. Maybe you didn't play in TBC and are just pretending, or maybe you just don't remember, but there was no queue system in TBC. You formed your own 5 man group, you didn't get queued in with strangers. People STILL complained they were too hard, and because of that, in the next expansion, we got the Wrath 5 mans, which EVERYONE complained was "mind numblingly boring easy content", and so Blizzard ramped up the difficulty in Cata, another example you gave of good 5 man content. GUESS WHAT, people complained again that it was too difficult.

Don't get pissy and try to talk down to me like I don't understand your post. I do, it's you who doesn't understand what I'm saying.

In TBC they were mandatory because they were required to get into any form of raiding (attunements) and offered gear which people needed.

In Cata they were mandatory because they were there to gear up into raiding, and making them matchmaking was ridiculous.

My idea is to add a 5 man difficulty that is NOT mandatory but more a side step from raiding for those who have no wish to raid, with easier versions (normal/heroic) available for those who just want to get gear quickly. Much like heroic scenarios weren't mandatory for people to get into raiding when they were added to the game, they were a more difficult alternative to what was available.

[Shinrael]

16000 is how many raid teams?

Imagine a room of 16000 people. That is a ton of people. All of those people have completed the hardest content around.

Tell that to the people who keep saying WoW is dead. Hell, 7 million people are a shit load of people, esp since it's that time of the expansion's cycle.

[Pann]

Are you serious? Every freakin patch (and hotfixes) are all about class balance because of PvP. It gets the same development time if not more than raids. Last I heard raids are also open for anyone that can queue.

Are you? Do you honestly think a hotfix takes anywhere near the development time as a raid? So I just log on with a fresh level 90 and experience HC Garrosh in the same way as I can experience every arena?

[Monoxide]

That's still about prioritizing. I know not everyone can make it, but far more than you think. People just bitch and moan about it taking too much time when in reality they don't do anything useful in that time. They could just as easily switch cooking days with their wives if that's how they do it or simply come up with another way of finding the time. One of my better friends used to take a 10 minute break every raid to put his son to bed, and that was fine as he mostly found a time to do it during trash. If not we'd just take our break around that time, since it was always occuring mid raid.

People just see the limitations, not the possibilities. If you truly enjoy doing something you'll nearly always find a way.

This


I'll give a good example from my own raiding history. I've always been apart of a guild that raided 3 nights a week, 4 hours a night. Those times were pretty much set in stone, Tu/Th/Sun 7-11 PM eastern. If I had a friend ask me, on Tuesday, "Hey lets go see a movie", the answer is "No, sorry, I already have something planned tonight, how about tomorrow?" Likewise, our raid schedule never included Mondays, but sometimes my guild decided we didn't get done what we wanted to that week by the time the raid ended Sunday, and they wanted to add an extra night of raiding on Monday. My response to them is the same as the one my buddy got on Tuesday "No, sorry, I've already got plans. See you guys at 7 on Tuesday".


It's a game, it's a hobby. Just because it's a game doesn't mean it has to be your absolute lowest priority. Have respect for other people and the time they set aside for it too. I don't think you should cancel RL plans for raiding, but at the same time I'd wager pretty much anyone who put in the smallest amount of effort could find a way to get on a raid schedule if they wanted to. In my guild we had a guy in the Air Force, and his shift changed every 3 months. That meant we'd get a 6 month stretch where he raided with us just fine, and then a 3 month period where his schedule didn't allow it. He didn't stop raiding though, and we didn't ditch him. It just meant he couldn't raid with us during those 3 months. He set up a deal with another guild where he'd fill in for them during that 3 month time period, because he ENJOYED RAIDING AND PROGRESSING. Even though his schedule didn't fit ours for those 3 months, he made it work for him, to where he could still raid.


Another example is a good friend of mine, who, at this time, I no longer raid with due to me changing servers during ToT. We played together from Ulduar until MoP release. He's married with 2 children, both under the age of 5. His wife has absolutely no interest in games, and she thinks it's silly, but she's a rational person and understood it was a hobby of his. He explained to her "it's the same thing as guys night out. Except instead of going out, I'm in. I'm still enjoying a social gathering with other people and having an enjoyable time. If it really bothers you that much, though, I can stop. I'll call up some buddies and we can hit up the bars and strip joints. No? You'd rather I stay in? Ok."


Don't be a bitch, if you want to raid, figure out a way to do it. A lot of it comes down to lack of commitment on the part of the individual, rather than a problem with the core design of the game.

[Madruga]

Well, the developers designed different iterations of the fight for a reason. People still see the fight in diffent modes. There is barely any differences between garrosh in normal and heroic anyway bar the dps check. It is pretty safe to assume that they are not concerned with how many players will get the see Garrosh HC when it is so similar to all the other iterations. Their only concern is probably making it as big of a challenge as possible.

5% is highly overestimating though unless SoO gets heavily nerfed. A guild that is around that 10-11/14H mark is still months and months and months away from Garrosh. If all the guilds that currently killed siege kills garrosh, numbers would only rise to 0.75%. To get to 5%, then all the guilds who have killed about 3-4 heroic bosses would have to kill Garrosh. That is simply not gonna happen. SoO starts at Thok. Guilds that are 3-4 heroic bosses at this stage has no chance of ever seeing a phase of heroic garrosh.

They do care about how many people complete the content. They stated many times, after Wrath, that they have goals on how many people should complete a given raid.

Chances are, their goal for the percentage of Heroics kills must be smaller nowadays than what it was in past expansions, since now we have LFR, Flex, Normal and only then Heroics. There are more people raiding than ever; only the vast majority of these people don't get to the point of doing Heroics.

We can't know, but maybe the 0,23% of Garrosh kills is within the goals Blizzard has set for the current month. But, if the actual number of kills start to separate from their goal, you can expect the content will be nerfed.

yes, they said many times they don't intend to nerf SoO, that item upgrades is the nerfing... But since we have a new PVP season coming, we can assume WoD is still a bit far, and eventually people will get tired of banging against the Heroic wall. The natural way of preventing as much subs bleeds is nerfs. I see it coming.

[Deleted]

Are you? Do you honestly think a hotfix takes anywhere near the development time as a raid? So I just log on with a fresh level 90 and experience HC Garrosh in the same way as I can experience every arena?

Yes, class balance takes time. In case you didn't notice, after 9 years of WoW classes are still not balanced and they will never be. It's rather complicated stuff. Ongoing progress. So you just log on with fresh 90 and you are fighting against 2.2k team?
Or you just log on and fight with easier opponents? And then you just log on with fresh 90 and guess what - you fight with easier version of Garrosh.

[Pann]

What do you mean? The rewards offered through raiding are generally: 1-2 mounts per tier, 1 title per tier, and 0-4 battle pets. Aside from that, the rewards are gear. I don't understand the mentality of "I have no intention of ever doing any heroic mode SoO boss, but I'll be damned if I don't need 570 ilevel gear" What do you need this gear for, exactly? You get all the other stuff (mounts/pets/titles) from the content Firefly33 mentioned. You get gear from most of them too. You just don't get the best, high end gear, from that content. Why do you need it though?


You're a no win type of person. Challenge modes are a perfect example. Your rewards are transmog items, a mount, and a title. Again I ask, if you have no interest in doing any SoO heroic, why do you need SoO heroic item level gear? Doesn't make any sense beyond "I want it because I do".

The main form character progression in WOW is through gear if players do not raid their progression is severely limited. What does it matter if someone wants better gear in order to complete their dailies a bit quicker or just because they like the look of it?

Why do you expect players to pay for the content that does not interest them but allows you to benefit from ilvl 570 gear?

[Ugum]

I am all for going back to a single raiding difficulty. I came from EQ where not only were the Bosses a single difficulty, for the most part, you competed with other guilds to even get to them.

Having said that, that would cut me completely out of end game raiding and I'm fine with that. I'm one of the few that understand that reward comes from putting in time and effort. If I want that reward, I will make the time and put in the effort required. Sure, it would be a shame that very few of the people who play this game would get to see this content but I have enough other stuff to keep me busy.

LFR and Flex, for me, is a gift from Blizzard and I thank them for that. I get to see the content that they designed. If I get gear from it, then I'll run it more than once just because it's some form of character progression. If not, I would do it once to see the story and go back to doing whatever it is that they give me to progress my character.

Heroic Raiders should be rewarded more than they are, IMO. I don't know what else to reward them with but I don't think the current mounts, titles and pets is enough. Maybe the Heroic gear should have a completely different model to distinguish them. When you saw someone in T1 or T2 gear, you knew they were a Raider. Now you have to inspect people and look at their ILvL and see if it's a piece that drops from Ordos or a Celestial to decipher it.

Heroic Raiders deserve to have the "Look at Me" thing going on. That way I have something to look forward to rather than a few more stats on my current gear that looks just like theirs (aside from the color).

[Pann]

Yes, class balance takes time. In case you didn't notice, after 9 years of WoW classes are still not balanced and they will never be. It's rather complicated stuff. Ongoing progress. So you just log on with fresh 90 and you are fighting against 2.2k team?
Or you just log on and fight with easier opponents? And then you just log on with fresh 90 and guess what - you fight with easier version of Garrosh.

Haha. Balance may take time but hotfixes rarely involve anything more than altering a number or two are you suggesting that costs the same in development time as SoO?

I might face a 2.2k depending on how many other players are queuing but they are not the content. I can queue for every single bit of PVP content created as soon as I hit level 90 should I wish to do so.