1. #1

    Lightbulb A couple fixes to 5-mans

    I think 5-man dungeons are fun. They don't need the coordination of raids, and are more structured than scenarios. But for some reason Blizz, more or less, abandoned them in MoP. I remember in wrath, in which I started late, 5-mans were my end-game until I was geared enough, and in a good enough guild, to raid. But now all players have is LFR, which takes everything bad about LFG and magnifies it.

    So here are some ideas to fix some issues with 5-mans that people complain about a lot.

    1. Queueing, and playing, with random and often irritable or terrible players is not good.
    Fixes:1 This isn't really a problem in normal modes, just when 5-mans become difficult (like in cata). So, I propose requiring the achievement for the normal mode in order to run the heroic mode. This way players can be forced through easier content, helping them learn the fights (if they are new to WoW).
    2 Make only normal modes available through LFG, this way you can only play with guilds (ideally) or other people on your server
    3 In reality this is a problem inherent with MMOs, essentially unavoidable, and only a problem with people who suffer from their selective memory.

    2. Long queue times stink.
    Fix: Flexible dungeons! normal mode 5-mans can be flexed for 4 to 7or8 players, so when 1 tank and 1 healer queue up, 2-6 dps are put into the group, reducing queue times for dps at least.

    3. They can become a grind.
    Fix: (Blizz really needs to release 5-mans more often) A better fix is to make them 'mandatory' only for people who need them for gear, like the valor cap is good enough.

    4. Heroic difficult has been like a pendulum with a motor.
    Fix: Make Heroic and normal modes give the same amount of valor! That way Blizz can make heroics more difficult (challenge modes help too, so heroics don't have to be too hard), but not mandatory.

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throne View Post
    4. Heroic difficult has been like a pendulum with a motor.
    Fix: Make Heroic and normal modes give the same amount of valor! That way Blizz can make heroics more difficult (challenge modes help too, so heroics don't have to be too hard), but not mandatory.
    I like the idea of not forcing people into them but this really wouldn't work.

    As Blizz have said many times, players will always take the shortest/easiest route regardless of whether it's the most fun or not. So you'll just end up with normal faceroll and very few doing heroic, unless you add sufficient incentives to it

  3. #3
    I think we just need more of them and more reasons to be there. Flex 5 mans is odd, if they're tunable for 10 why not make it a raid? Variable content was kind of the name of the game in MoP but in the end everything took a back seat to raids. Hopefully scenarios and Dungeons are going to be more interesting/rewarding/Plentiful in WoD.

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throne View Post
    I think 5-man dungeons are fun. They don't need the coordination of raids, and are more structured than scenarios. But for some reason Blizz, more or less, abandoned them in MoP. I remember in wrath, in which I started late, 5-mans were my end-game until I was geared enough, and in a good enough guild, to raid. But now all players have is LFR, which takes everything bad about LFG and magnifies it.

    So here are some ideas to fix some issues with 5-mans that people complain about a lot.

    1. Queueing, and playing, with random and often irritable or terrible players is not good.
    Fixes:1 This isn't really a problem in normal modes, just when 5-mans become difficult (like in cata). So, I propose requiring the achievement for the normal mode in order to run the heroic mode. This way players can be forced through easier content, helping them learn the fights (if they are new to WoW).
    2 Make only normal modes available through LFG, this way you can only play with guilds (ideally) or other people on your server
    3 In reality this is a problem inherent with MMOs, essentially unavoidable, and only a problem with people who suffer from their selective memory.

    2. Long queue times stink.
    Fix: Flexible dungeons! normal mode 5-mans can be flexed for 4 to 7or8 players, so when 1 tank and 1 healer queue up, 2-6 dps are put into the group, reducing queue times for dps at least.

    3. They can become a grind.
    Fix: (Blizz really needs to release 5-mans more often) A better fix is to make them 'mandatory' only for people who need them for gear, like the valor cap is good enough.

    4. Heroic difficult has been like a pendulum with a motor.
    Fix: Make Heroic and normal modes give the same amount of valor! That way Blizz can make heroics more difficult (challenge modes help too, so heroics don't have to be too hard), but not mandatory.
    1. So you are saying that my 520 ilvl alt that just dinged and was fully epquiped with Hello Kitty Timeless Island drops, Garrosh boa, and crafted items should be forced to run through a normal dungeon?

    2. 4-8 players is just more irritable because you suck players.

    3. 5 mans are not and never were mandatory.

    4. Heroics are not hard. Any competent tank could solo them at release.







    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  5. #5
    I'd really like for heroics to go back to TBC-level difficulty. There was a spectrum from easy-ish (probably still difficult by today's standards) like Mechanar to more difficult like Shadow Labs or Arcatraz. I'd also like to see "Mythic" dungeons where you can get LFR or similar level gear. They would be considerably more difficult and would require completion of the heroic-equivalent plus some ilevel.
    Ret Paladin
    8/14H T16

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral Skeletroll's Avatar
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    I don't really care if they are hard or not... i just want more 5-mans instead of scenarios or even raids. And shiny epicxzzz.
    Former unique snowflake.

  7. #7
    ID like to see trash with mechanics, more or less on par with current MoP boss mechanics, and then the bosses be on par with some later Brawlers Guild bosses mechanic wise.

    For example, the Jade Temple boss fights you in a room where water hurts. Make a hallway where water hurts and you need to avoid getting knocked back by the adds and dying. Simple CC isn't fun, IMO, but rather focus. Interrupts and control.

  8. #8
    I would like to see new 5 mans with improved difficulty and loot popping up mid expansion. It was pretty awesome in WoTLK when you got some new dungeons at the ICC patch, they were pretty challenging too when they came out.

    I think instead of popping up 6 dungeons at the start of the expansion, I'd rather see 4 up front and then 2-3 more as we progress with patches, just to keep them relevant.

    MoP dungeons are a failure, IMO. I can basically solo each and every one of them heroic with a Warlock, just because these dungeons are like built for 100 ilvls below what people have now.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I would like to see new 5 mans with improved difficulty and loot popping up mid expansion. It was pretty awesome in WoTLK when you got some new dungeons at the ICC patch, they were pretty challenging too when they came out.

    I think instead of popping up 6 dungeons at the start of the expansion, I'd rather see 4 up front and then 2-3 more as we progress with patches, just to keep them relevant.

    MoP dungeons are a failure, IMO. I can basically solo each and every one of them heroic with a Warlock, just because these dungeons are like built for 100 ilvls below what people have now.
    So basically you want what they've already said is going to be in WoD. (dungeons added every patch and old ones scaled up to keep them relevent)
    Last edited by TheWindWalker; 2014-01-12 at 06:21 AM.
    Praise the Quest Writers for they give life to otherwise boring expansions.

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