Poll: whos the strongest lackey?

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  1. #161
    Pandaren Monk Huntermyth's Avatar
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    paragons doesn't deserve to be in the list imo. back when we first saw them after siegecrafter kill with no less than 40 pulls, we basically 2 shotted them with minimum to no knowledge other than kill order.

    this is not just us as well, many guilds claim the same.

  2. #162
    On this list, I'll pick H-Spine. (Since I've actually raided it)

    As far as hardest boss pre-endboss? I hear pre-nerf baleroc strategies basically involve people attempting to kite him while he's berserked in hopes of somehow killing him before he finishes the raid.

    Pre-Nerf, H-Firelands was pretty good overall for stuff like that, actually. It was pretty overtuned, in terms of enrage timers and DPS checks.

    In terms of SoO, trying to do Dark Shamans without cheezing it with a third tank is pretty crazy. There's basically nowhere to stand and shit exploding everywhere.

  3. #163
    Heroic spine was actually very simple, mechanically. It was just a burst DPS check. I have no idea how anyone can say it was as difficult as Mimiron or heroic Blackfuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntermyth View Post
    paragons doesn't deserve to be in the list imo. back when we first saw them after siegecrafter kill with no less than 40 pulls, we basically 2 shotted them with minimum to no knowledge other than kill order.

    this is not just us as well, many guilds claim the same.
    You killed heroic Blackfuse with ~40 pulls?

    I wiped more on that fight than any other boss. 100% more than heroic Lei Shen, 50% more than heroic Rag, 25% more than heroic LK. Only other fight that compares, in my experience, was Yogg+0

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Did it really take that much figuring out for the different strategies? Figuring out the strats was the easy part. Which strat works the best and actually executing it was the hard part.

    Siegecrafter havent got shit on bosses like Mimiron.
    The hard part was figuring out a working strategy with the setup you had available. Everyone was undergeared at the time, and killing the weapons in time was problematic, as well as killing shredders before the 5th overload. We had 100s of wipes using 1 strategy, only to find out it wasn't working, then 100 wipes with a different strategy, only to have 100 wipes with another strategy. It was a nightmare of frustration figuring out how to solve the puzzle. Once our strategy was adequately refined, it became quite easy to execute. I believe we had near ~325 wipes on him before the first kill, and the following weeks we like 2-shot him.

    The reason the encounter was much harder than a fight like Mimiron in my eyes, is due to the drastic increase in individual skill since then. The raid team I was with back in Ulduar was not even close to the caliber of players I raided with on Blackfuse, so while mimiron was hard, we weren't really professionals either. Unlike the team we had in SoO, were all of us were really high skilled and experienced raiders, with +5 years of experience beating the hardest content in the game, with game knowledge comparable to #1 guilds (but just with less time on our hands).

    The fact that the encounter still presented an enormous challenge for us under these circumstances, made me pick siegecrafter as the hardest. Most of the top guilds spent like 400-500 wipes on him as well.
    Last edited by mmoc9e8e7fdb19; 2014-01-14 at 07:59 PM.

  5. #165
    Herald of the Titans Marxman's Avatar
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    If we're talking difficulty including numbers tuning, there is no answer other than Spine of Deathwing. It was WAY overtuned without the buff, to the point where we had to resort to Sunwell+ levels of class stacking to even get close to killing it.

    Pre-nerf M'uru was still harder than that, to put it in perspective.

    There were also many other encounters that were much more complex and "difficult", but weren't tuned as tightly. See: Paragons, Siegecrafter, Tsulong, Amber Shaper just to name a few from MoP. Mimiron and Freya were also pretty difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntermyth View Post
    paragons doesn't deserve to be in the list imo. back when we first saw them after siegecrafter kill with no less than 40 pulls, we basically 2 shotted them with minimum to no knowledge other than kill order.

    this is not just us as well, many guilds claim the same.
    Paragons is significantly easier in 10man than it is in 25man. I'm pulling numbers from my ass here, but from what I've gathered most 10man kills take under 50 pulls, while most 25man kills are 200+.
    Last edited by Marxman; 2014-01-14 at 09:20 PM.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    For every 1 person who legitimately experienced high end classic/bc content there's 500 guys who never played at the time going "yeah XXX is damn hardest/best/etc those were good times! fuck modern wow it's easy as shit" who's also blindly voting for muru/cthun/horsemen or whatever is hip and trendy.
    Just because people liked other expansions more doesn't that mean they are wrong. From their perspective they have right. Not everyone think that Blackfuse/Paragons/other MoP bosses are HARDEST. Just because the expansion is new that doesn't mean it's better(compare Cata to MoP and Cata to Wotlk) and has better bosses.

    M'uru was indeed very hard in the end of TBC.
    I voted for Mimiron.

  7. #167
    Wasn't Protectors heroic elite thought to be impossible pre-nerf?
    Last edited by shaak; 2014-01-14 at 09:49 PM.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    that boss was easy as hell, just jump on the railing leading to pathaleon once you've cleared the instance, the fire will run all the way to the end of the instance to jump up the rails, then you just jump down again and the adds will run another 1 minute to reach you.

    BC encounters seriously lacked bug testing and polish, literally everything was broken, especially ZA.
    I'm sorry, I don't consider bug exploitation when evaluating the difficulty of a fight.
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  9. #169
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    Vaelastrasz the Corrupt, wiped more on that boss than any other boss i can remember, weeks on end
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  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mew View Post
    The hard part was figuring out a working strategy with the setup you had available. Everyone was undergeared at the time, and killing the weapons in time was problematic, as well as killing shredders before the 5th overload. We had 100s of wipes using 1 strategy, only to find out it wasn't working, then 100 wipes with a different strategy, only to have 100 wipes with another strategy. It was a nightmare of frustration figuring out how to solve the puzzle. Once our strategy was adequately refined, it became quite easy to execute. I believe we had near ~325 wipes on him before the first kill, and the following weeks we like 2-shot him.

    The reason the encounter was much harder than a fight like Mimiron in my eyes, is due to the drastic increase in individual skill since then. The raid team I was with back in Ulduar was not even close to the caliber of players I raided with on Blackfuse, so while mimiron was hard, we weren't really professionals either. Unlike the team we had in SoO, were all of us were really high skilled and experienced raiders, with +5 years of experience beating the hardest content in the game, with game knowledge comparable to #1 guilds (but just with less time on our hands).

    The fact that the encounter still presented an enormous challenge for us under these circumstances, made me pick siegecrafter as the hardest. Most of the top guilds spent like 400-500 wipes on him as well.
    I dont see how killing the weapons was problematic unless you were trying to solo every weapon. We only soloed the first weapon and had two players for the rest. As for killing shreddars before 5th overload? Yeah, I understand siegecrafter was hard if your tanks were that bad. You should never even get a fourth overload.

    Imo, we spent way to much time trying different strategies. The secret was not to find what "works", since everything does. It was to chose a strategy and use it until the boss died, but we wasted way to much time switching strats around.

    I agree that Siegecrafter was an enormous challenge, but still it can not be compared to a lot of the earlier roadblocks in instances.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    If we're talking difficulty including numbers tuning, there is no answer other than Spine of Deathwing. It was WAY overtuned without the buff, to the point where we had to resort to Sunwell+ levels of class stacking to even get close to killing it.

    Pre-nerf M'uru was still harder than that, to put it in perspective.

    There were also many other encounters that were much more complex and "difficult", but weren't tuned as tightly. See: Paragons, Siegecrafter, Tsulong, Amber Shaper just to name a few from MoP. Mimiron and Freya were also pretty difficult.



    Paragons is significantly easier in 10man than it is in 25man. I'm pulling numbers from my ass here, but from what I've gathered most 10man kills take under 50 pulls, while most 25man kills are 200+.
    Any run of the mill heroic guild would mow down M'uru in his original state. The game was hard because people sucked. The world first kill was what, 5 days after Sunwell opened?

    Wasn't Protectors heroic elite thought to be impossible pre-nerf?
    Yeah it was a pretty broken encounter, also no one cared after Sha died.

  12. #172
    Every boss in SWP. That stuff was all kinds of hard. Never killed Muru pre-Wrath-nerf.
    Although by far the most fun on the list was Mimiron, and his Big Red Button. For the most part, hard mode bosses just got annoying after that. Sindra was the one I really burned out on. Anything harder than that rates as "much too hard" imho. Especially if there's RNG elements (STUPID ICE BLOCKS!). Killed sindra hc eventually ONCE, as a result, never even tried LK hc when it was current.
    Last edited by Calaba; 2014-01-14 at 10:50 PM.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
    For every 1 person who legitimately experienced high end classic/bc content there's 500 guys who never played at the time going "yeah XXX is damn hardest/best/etc those were good times! fuck modern wow it's easy as shit" who's also blindly voting for muru/cthun/horsemen or whatever is hip and trendy.
    No but it's clear from the number of pulls required to kill the boss and the number that did it how hard it is.

    Under your logic, should nobody be allowed to vote unless they've killed every boss since vanilla?

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    No but it's clear from the number of pulls required to kill the boss and the number that did it how hard it is.

    Under your logic, should nobody be allowed to vote unless they've killed every boss since vanilla?
    People should mention that it's the hardest boss that THEY'VE killed, not the hardest in the game.

  15. #175
    Maybe not the toughest, but certainly the most nerve wrecking Bosses in MoP.

    Zor'lok Heroic, when he could still fly on the left Platform, 50% of all pulls were auto wipe.

    Spirit Kings Heroic, A WILD MENG APPEARS...TOO SOON.

  16. #176
    Dreadlord Paarthurnax's Avatar
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    Does Al'Akir count? he was the end boss of his instance but not of that tier ya? M'uru, Spine(25), Paragon(25), Al'Akir(25) all are worthy imo.

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  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    Vaelastrasz the Corrupt, wiped more on that boss than any other boss i can remember, weeks on end
    Wait stop. Explain to me... were there even mechanics on that fight?

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Wait stop. Explain to me... were there even mechanics on that fight?
    yes. hardest of all
    random members getting a bomb so they have to move or else they will whipe the raid.
    hardest... fight... ever... 40man
    esp if your healing line got bombs and one failed to move. and took out 4 healers with him.
    Last edited by Unproven; 2014-01-15 at 12:03 PM.

  19. #179
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    I remember doing AQ40 with pugs... Twin Bosses. I really tried to explain but there were always ~3 people that didn't understand. Or didn't care.

  20. #180
    M'uru, for sure of non-bugged encounters unless we count Ouro pre-"nerf" as non-bugged (I don't really think that is fair though).

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