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  1. #1
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Seal of Command thought

    What if the redesigned out apparent AoE seal into something more useful... Something, granted these are randomly picked but feel safish, that say reduced the total damage you deal by 30% but now all damage dealt is cleaved to everything within 8ft of the Paladin? Reducing the damage should keep it safe from ever becoming the best Seal for boss damage but when you cleave you now have a noticeable reason to do so.

    Note the maths really is rough but thoughts?

    Bugger i stuffed the title. Feel free for a mod to change it.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  2. #2
    If you want to play Rift, go play Rift

  3. #3
    I really loved it, that was when we had proper cleave, and switching seals actually affected your performance, now you sit in one seal all the time, so i welcome it, however i find it a bit outdated considering they way the game is now, only hitting 3 targets is a bit low considering how other classes can cleave.

  4. #4
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hisholyness View Post
    If you want to play Rift, go play Rift
    What does that have to do with anything?

  5. #5
    Banned MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hisholyness View Post
    If you want to play Rift, go play Rift
    What has this got to do with anything. Seal of Command in it's original form of "the dps seal" (next to Martyr) got rolled into Seal of Righteousness was it I believe. Single target dps loss but a cleave added. Oh man Seal of Righteousness I'd forgotten about that. Such memories... fuck nostalgia train just hit home hard.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Hisholyness View Post
    If you want to play Rift, go play Rift
    Yeah, I'm uh...drawing a blank here too. What does Rift have to do with this? I haven't played my Cleric in like a year now, but I don't remember anything in Rift like "damage everything around you" besides obvious AoE abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Oh man Seal of Righteousness I'd forgotten about that. Such memories... fuck nostalgia train just hit home hard.
    Divine Intervention...
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    I miss Burning Crusade, a bit. Simpler times...

  7. #7
    Fluffy Kitten Fhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Yeah, I'm uh...drawing a blank here too. What does Rift have to do with this? .
    Not much, so let's keep that part out of the discussion.

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  8. #8
    Banned Tonberrie's Avatar
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    Bring back seal of blood self harming too, that was amusing, especially on Prince Malchezaar if you forgot

  9. #9
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    The real reason I asked was because when you look at it there really are few times to ever swap seals and if you do you usually have to swap back really fast since you need there to be like 4 up to cleave into. This would keep it real simple. Are you going to cleave? Then break out the seal and until you have to tunnel the boss don't feel super guilty. Also tanking would be back to a fun "I tank adds" space for paladins
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  10. #10
    Banned MerinPally's Avatar
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    With a bit of tweaking I like your idea. I understand that they've changed paladins from altering a bunch of beneficial spells (like a support class but you only support yourself) to rather doing many different attacks such as strikes. I wouldn't necessarily mind going back to that. The problem is that it needs to be so that it isn't considered THAT mandatory. Which in itself is an inherent flaw in the entire Seals system. It's a problem that can't really be fixed without redesigning how Seals work. They changed it because it was a "use X for AOE and Y for single target" and they fixed other classes to using a rotation with a bit of AOE involved. But that isn't possible with seals in their current form.

    Either seals need to go or need a massive redesign to be focused around them in some form. Is a difficult one to resolve. First and foremost though - ret needs consecration back. First things first!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Either seals need to go or need a massive redesign to be focused around them in some form. Is a difficult one to resolve. First and foremost though - ret needs consecration back. First things first!
    Agreed, and to take it a little further: Both ret and holy would benefit wonderfully from having consecration back. And give it haste scaling already!
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  12. #12
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    With a bit of tweaking I like your idea. I understand that they've changed paladins from altering a bunch of beneficial spells (like a support class but you only support yourself) to rather doing many different attacks such as strikes. I wouldn't necessarily mind going back to that. The problem is that it needs to be so that it isn't considered THAT mandatory. Which in itself is an inherent flaw in the entire Seals system. It's a problem that can't really be fixed without redesigning how Seals work. They changed it because it was a "use X for AOE and Y for single target" and they fixed other classes to using a rotation with a bit of AOE involved. But that isn't possible with seals in their current form.

    Either seals need to go or need a massive redesign to be focused around them in some form. Is a difficult one to resolve. First and foremost though - ret needs consecration back. First things first!
    The issue is even now the seals boil down to target numbers. Hell all our rotations boil down to that. I'm just looking for something that not only makes life simpler but also gives each seal it's true shing niche. This for AoE, one for boss dps, a healing one and a pvp slow one. They need to feel worthwhile again. Right now you nearly notice seals let alone seal swapping.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  13. #13
    Banned MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutomaticBadger View Post
    The issue is even now the seals boil down to target numbers. Hell all our rotations boil down to that. I'm just looking for something that not only makes life simpler but also gives each seal it's true shing niche. This for AoE, one for boss dps, a healing one and a pvp slow one. They need to feel worthwhile again. Right now you nearly notice seals let alone seal swapping.
    Well as a melee and the spells we have, it provides us with a problem. A caster or a warrior or whatever will switch to a very slightly different rotation incorporating another spell maybe or possibly even a different one. Paladins just swap seal and then change from CS to HOTR. Back when DS wasn't a finished it was used single target as well. To get us to the same level as the other classes where it isn't such a simple "do this" thing then we need a big redesign in terms of spells... or for seals to go. It really is as simple as that :s

  14. #14
    I would rather see Seal of Command returned in it's original form, which is chance on hit to proc extra hit for 100% weapon damage as Holy damage. It was the PvP Seal of choice, but inferior to Seal of Truth in raids.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Well as a melee and the spells we have, it provides us with a problem. A caster or a warrior or whatever will switch to a very slightly different rotation incorporating another spell maybe or possibly even a different one. Paladins just swap seal and then change from CS to HOTR. Back when DS wasn't a finished it was used single target as well. To get us to the same level as the other classes where it isn't such a simple "do this" thing then we need a big redesign in terms of spells... or for seals to go. It really is as simple as that :s
    I'm just struggling to see where our differs from say a Warrior? They have phases, just smaller windows than out current ones given we revolve around cooldowns of longer length while most of their damage comes from things done in a CS window. While they may Heroic Strike in the window the then cleave, change to Whirlwind when enough are in range. Nothing really changes, hell Arms even have a short cooldown cleave, just like our ones don't. Aside from Warriors, I haven't been a Monk before, we have a rotation with variance between AoE and Single target DpS.

    Given that how would this really be a massive difference between switching Seals? Would be just like any Warrior choosing to activate Sweaping Strikes or even closer on a Rogue popping their "cleave stance".

    Note this isn't coming out in a argumentative way. I just think it reads as such so sorry if I annoyed you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    I would rather see Seal of Command returned in it's original form, which is chance on hit to proc extra hit for 100% weapon damage as Holy damage. It was the PvP Seal of choice, but inferior to Seal of Truth in raids.
    That could work but why not simply retune our PvP Seal and make the judgement slow basline or keep it as is?
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  16. #16
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Stance Dancing (or whatever euphemistic term you use) is a play I've found 'neither compelling nor fun' over the years.

  17. #17
    Fuck ret i want useful seals for holy paladins you know. About consecration, imagine if consecration worked like healing rain for holy but its consume HP.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    Fuck ret i want useful seals for holy paladins you know. About consecration, imagine if consecration worked like healing rain for holy but its consume HP.
    And that's why you got Light's Hammer

  19. #19
    I loved seal of cleave<3 Seal of Command+divine storm+instant flash of light with sacred shield was 10k+ heal with hots in WoTLK.... Those were the days!!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    Fuck ret i want useful seals for holy paladins you know. About consecration, imagine if consecration worked like healing rain for holy but its consume HP.
    Hey hey, you you, I don't wanna be your healer.

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