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  1. #1

    Things that need to go

    With the expansion or otherwise, here's a list of things that just need to disappear from the game or at least be adjusted to be less of a mindless powerhouse.

    General: passive dodge and parry, passive mana regeneration during combat, things that make casting speed longer, interrupt immunities, stupid cooldown stacking.

    Warrior: Colossus Smash (compensated by raw damage), Heroic Leap, Intervene, shouts during bladestorm, double interrupt, double reflect, deep wounds' duration (reduce it to 5 seconds), ability to stack skull banner with recklessness and avatar, shattering throw, shockwave as a talent (give it to prots only).

    Rogue: Subterfuge (instead give rogues better survivability), slice n dice (not worth the combo points, make it passive), recuperate (in it's current form it doesn't feel rogueish. My personal opinion is it should be a channeled heal in the style of bandaging, not a half-arsed HoT), marked for death, subtlety ignoring armor, shadowstep as talent (needs to be baseline), preparation, cloak of shadows needs to share cooldown with vanish, sap with no cooldown (make it 30 seconds), ease of restealth.

    Mage: Alter time (would be okay with health / mana part but no procs), Brain Freeze, entirety of bomb & 90 talent tiers, water elemental as a perma pet, cold snap, ice block (needs to be a talent in place of cold snap), silence on counterspell, frozen orb giving ice lance procs, mirror images or their slow, polymorph on unique DR.

    Priest: Spectral guise + fear (one should put the other on cooldown, at least), focused will, miniscule mana costs on things like prayer of mending / circle of healing / other instant heals, talented root (make it replace fear), void shift.

    Hunter: trap launcher (needs to at least have a cost), stampede, ability to run and shoot (this should be a short cooldown rather than a permanent thing. Think something like 10 sec duration / 30 sec cd, allowing hunters to use anything while running), no cost on hunter cc, no DR on hunter cc, CC on pets, entire f'ing tier dedicated to MORE CC with no shared DR, double deterrence and deterrence in general (make it cost 100 focus and prevent focus regen while it's active at least), hunter's mark (at this point in the game it's just redundant).

    Paladin: avenging wrath / archangel Holy avenger stacking, free hammers during AW, fist of justice (hammer can stay, however, 30s cooldown is overkill), blind (just not needed), double hands, sprint (give it to rets and prots but keep it out of holy's reach), bubble (iconic as it is, at this point in the game I bet many paladins would trade it for some legit defenses like all-time damage reduction), too much damage during CDs and not enough without (ret), denounce (damage can stay but it needs to cost a lot more, and the crit thing needs to go), holy power being just combo points but better.

    Druid: Heart of the Wild, free shapeshifting out of everything (keep it as a mechanic but make it have a higher cost, eg. 20% of druid's mana per shapeshift), blink, bear healing for non-guardian, moonkin playstyle (spray dots 'n pray for procs + eclipse are just clunky mechanics that neither druids themselves nor the one they randomly crit for 250k enjoy), feral slow on everything (remove from mangle), faerie fire with no cooldown, root with no cooldown, cyclone (I know it's been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed which is why I think it's just a bad idea for a spell and it needs to go), a combination of heals' low manacost with the ability to spam most while bouncing around like a moron (resto and balance to a degree), incarnation.

    Warlock: Succubus seduction with no cooldown, felhunter silence (keep the interrupt), imp swarm, that thing making them immune to interrupts, malefic grasp (just buff dots a little bit and remove this atrocity), blood horror (at this point it needs not be a thing with baseline howl), Shadowburn (most retarded execute in the game), demonic gateway and teleport.

    Shaman: Resto mastery, Ascendance, Fire elemental (it takes up half the screen), elemental's slotmachine of lava burst procs, stormblast, instant hex / hex while moving, tremor totem, damage spread between no cooldowns / procs and full cooldowns / procs, riptide's low cooldown, low manacost on resto heals,

    Death Knight: Unholy cooldown stacking, unhealable frost crits, double grip. In all fairness I don't think death knights have many over the top dumb things outside of necrotic strike and damage. Instead, I think DKs should be changed from being super-damaging glass cannons to being durable / having high sustained (rather than over the top burst), while having little mobility and being easier to outrun / kite.

    Monk: that thing making mistweaver immune in stuns (if not removed, at least make it a button usable while stunned with longer cooldown), roll breaking snares for mistweaver, jade statue (needs to behave like a totem in being easily knocked down), touch of death, fists of fury stun, too much damage during tigereye brew (spread some among no-cooldown sustain).

    /rant over. Agree? Disagree? Got other things in mind? Let's try and help Blizzard make WoD the best PvP expansion ever by ending the arms race and pushing them in the right direction.
    Last edited by Saberstrike; 2014-01-13 at 09:48 PM.

  2. #2
    I like that your mind is in the right place with wanting to revamp/change a lot of things in the PVP world, but just about half or more of the things that you mentioned are what makes classes unique. I get the impression from this post that you just want to run around dealing damage and having healers heal without any actual intuitive gameplay. I know that is not the case, but taking away all of this stuff would certainly be heading in that direction. Cooldown stacking and various forms of CC are the only things that need to be removed, and Blizz knows it. They have their feedback. Half of the stuff you mentioned is also just things that probably annoy you.

    You give so many things that you want remove, but you rarely ever explain why. Go through ability by ability and explain your reasonings and then we can have a conversation about those reasons. Don't just say "remove this, remove this, make this act like this." Explain why you think things should be different.

  3. #3
    You just made a very boring game.

  4. #4
    I think as a general rule, it's not worth taking design advice of someone who doesn't even know the names of the things he wants to change.

    It makes for a fun game of "guess the OP's class" though. My money is on DK.

  5. #5
    The only thing I get from this "list" is to take away every useable PvP ability.

  6. #6
    I always loved to play feral, and i loved the fact that time ago they didn't have an interrupt or slow, i remember i had to interrupt changing to bear, tauren's racial or even maim and that was awesome and felt rewarding. Now every class has lots of cc suited for PvP, instead of removing cc, Blizz just gave more cc to the other classes. I hope WoD takes back the pvp of BC or LK.

  7. #7
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Yeah, no. That's a terrible idea. Whilst I also hate some of the things you listed, it would make the game exceptionally lacking.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    I think as a general rule, it's not worth taking design advice of someone who doesn't even know the names of the things he wants to change.

    It makes for a fun game of "guess the OP's class" though. My money is on DK.
    I'll put a 100 internets on them being a DK as well.


    In all fairness I don't think death knights have any over the top dumb things outside of necrotic strike but if we remove casting speed reduction then it'll be fine. Instead, I think DKs should be changed from being super-damaging glass cannons to being durable and doing hard sustained damage rather than over the top burst.
    yep; from super damaging glass canon to durable sustained hard damage. Give up a little damage built into execution of class mechanics for tons of extra durability and tons of sustained damage. Seems fair

  9. #9
    This sounds like nerf every class and buff Death Knights because I am a Death Knight. Worst ideas ever. This will not fix PvP but break it even more, and will make all classes seem even more boring.

  10. #10
    Here is my list of things that need to disappear from the game

    PvP

  11. #11
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    I've played a paladin since TBC launch and have done every little tip and trick ranging from specs to gear and behaviour. I have never heard of paladin "Archangel stacking" - so either this is bullshit or something in MOP for holy spec as I've not played it.

    Noone cares about PvP. And if you do care about it massively, you shouldn't. Blizzard have said many times that PvP is more of a minigame than a focus. If you wnat a PvP game then go and play a PvP game. There has never been good PvP in WoW, but when it was done it was not because it was good but rather everything else was so terrible. They fix huge glaring probems in PvP but they're never going to balance the game around it.
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  12. #12
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    I think as a general rule, it's not worth taking design advice of someone who doesn't even know the names of the things he wants to change.

    It makes for a fun game of "guess the OP's class" though. My money is on DK.
    I'd say he's a Frost DK :/

    @OP: I don't think making such an amount of ridiculous changes will make PvP anything better. I can see myself agreeing with 1 or 2 things, but the rest, not at all.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I've played a paladin since TBC launch and have done every little tip and trick ranging from specs to gear and behaviour. I have never heard of paladin "Archangel stacking" - so either this is bullshit or something in MOP for holy spec as I've not played it.

    Noone cares about PvP. And if you do care about it massively, you shouldn't. Blizzard have said many times that PvP is more of a minigame than a focus. If you wnat a PvP game then go and play a PvP game. There has never been good PvP in WoW, but when it was done it was not because it was good but rather everything else was so terrible. They fix huge glaring probems in PvP but they're never going to balance the game around it.
    Yeah no one cares about pvp except those who care about it. But you shouldn't care about it because i don't care about it. I don't like the pvp in WoW therefore it is not good PvP.

    To summarize what you said.

    OT: Basically you want everything removed except spammable abilities, and anything DK.
    Last edited by Coraulten; 2014-01-11 at 01:36 PM.

  14. #14
    Well someone sounds like a PvP cry baby...

    Why should everyone suffer because you're having a bad time? Go play something else or improve.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Frakchaw View Post
    Well someone sounds like a PvP cry baby...

    Why should everyone suffer because you're having a bad time? Go play something else or improve.
    Yeah how dare you have an opinion that differs than mine!

  16. #16
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    Yeah no one cares about pvp except those who care about it. But you shouldn't care about it because i don't care about it. I don't like the pvp in WoW therefore it is not good PvP.

    To summarize what you said.

    OT: Basically you want everything removed except spammable abilities, and anything DK.
    That doesn't summarise what I've said at all. Don't attempt to put words in my mouth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    That doesn't summarise what I've said at all. Don't attempt to put words in my mouth.
    I feel like its a pretty good summary of what you said.

  18. #18
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    I would not support this idea. Makes it all too bland, a boring setup if I may say. You are on the field of battle. You cannot expect everything to be gone, specially not what I can see on your post as some of classes key abilities. abilities that define the class, there has to be differences to all classes, but seeing how much you think must go.

    Do you expect all to do PvP with a weapon, and 5 buttons? So no, I do not agree. Nor do I tihnk most of the things you wrote is a problem at all. WoD do bring less CC's though - be happy for that. But the rest, that just seems like one who had bad BG's with his characters.
    Last edited by Gehco; 2014-01-11 at 01:55 PM.
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  19. #19
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    Main things for me in PVP would be Heart of the Wild, Void Shift and Cyclone. Void Shift and Heart of the Wild are too powerful for arena games IMO, and should not be possible to use. Cyclone needs to share DR with something, as I consider Druids CC to be extremely strong.

    Warriors can have Mass Spell Reflect and Interrupting Shout as replacements for Spell Reflect and Pummel, not both. Compensate with Safeguard breaking roots again (Or was it Intervene?) Possibly give Elemental Shaman a free cast with Shamanistic Rage (Unending Resolve Cast Immunity) as it can be shut down easily.

    Rogues can have Burst of Speed energy cost higher. Hunter mobility nerf (bonus damage from standing still?) and remove Warlock's Shivarra Mesmerize as it is another powerful CC or have it be less powerful/give it a cooldown.

    DK and Paladin in PVP just need a general damage reduction, especially Ret during cooldowns. We were promised more sustained and less burst and we still rely on Wings and GoAK.

    In general for Healers more focus on casting by making cast heals stronger and HoTs/Instant Cast Heals less powerful.

    Just some general thoughts. I play lots of classes in PVP. Only class I haven't played is a Druid, but experience in Arenas, Random BGs, Rated BGs and such suggest to me that the non-healer specs (Feral and Balance) should not be able to heal for the amounts they can. Also might as well add that the Tank nerf which applies to FCs in Rated BGs should affect Random BGs due to the influence a Tank can have on the game, and also make the Flags in EotS how they are in Rated BGs.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminoth4 View Post
    Main things for me in PVP would be Heart of the Wild, Void Shift and Cyclone. Void Shift and Heart of the Wild are too powerful for arena games IMO, and should not be possible to use. Cyclone needs to share DR with something, as I consider Druids CC to be extremely strong.

    Warriors can have Mass Spell Reflect and Interrupting Shout as replacements for Spell Reflect and Pummel, not both. Compensate with Safeguard breaking roots again (Or was it Intervene?) Possibly give Elemental Shaman a free cast with Shamanistic Rage (Unending Resolve Cast Immunity) as it can be shut down easily.

    Rogues can have Burst of Speed energy cost higher. Hunter mobility nerf (bonus damage from standing still?) and remove Warlock's Shivarra Mesmerize as it is another powerful CC or have it be less powerful/give it a cooldown.

    DK and Paladin in PVP just need a general damage reduction, especially Ret during cooldowns. We were promised more sustained and less burst and we still rely on Wings and GoAK.

    In general for Healers more focus on casting by making cast heals stronger and HoTs/Instant Cast Heals less powerful.

    Just some general thoughts. I play lots of classes in PVP. Only class I haven't played is a Druid, but experience in Arenas, Random BGs, Rated BGs and such suggest to me that the non-healer specs (Feral and Balance) should not be able to heal for the amounts they can. Also might as well add that the Tank nerf which applies to FCs in Rated BGs should affect Random BGs due to the influence a Tank can have on the game, and also make the Flags in EotS how they are in Rated BGs.
    Ferals would need some hefty survival buffs to compensate of HoTW removal. Outside of it their healing is pretty sub par. I'm also not quite sure how you see cyclone as such a powerful CC considering it requires a hard cast as feral (maybe you were just talking about druids in general). For void shift though, the only thing i would change be the inability for the person who got void shifted, like i a priest void shifted a mage at like 5%, for the mage to be able to iceblock to essentially remove the downside of void shift.

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