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  1. #21
    Is the only reason people save PW:S/Rapture for LMG proc so they don't have to spend the mana on a PW:S? If that's the case, you'll save more mana using rapture on CD, while using your level 90 talent or PW:S during the proc. As Naer pointed out, there are so many instances where spamming 2-3 PW:S will often help while the tank(s) have weakend soul.

  2. #22
    I am currently running 8k spirit and at times i find that slightly taxing on casting. My Rapture downtime isnt amazing but sometimes healing extensively for too long is difficult. I found at 9k spirit though mana was a complete non issue so i will prob be sticking to that for now atleast until i can get into some good PUGs that will actually get past Nourushen. The LMG proc is great though and its getting easier to react to the procs and dish out aleast 2/3 PW:S or a L90. Putting an audio Que like someone said really helped out.

  3. #23
    So many people in this thread don't realize that rapture doesn't mean you gain mana or have mana returned equal to X amount of spirit. Rapture just means PW:S is mana neutral. The only way to GAIN mana is from using PW:S during a LMG proc. It doesn't matter if you have a 10 min long encounter and PW:S on CD the tank and get 46 rapture procs out of that you don't actually gain a single point of mana you just don't end up spending any. But, on like a 5 min fight with an average of 2 PPM you'd gain 137250 mana from only using PW:S during the LMG proc... well technically it'd be double that if you want to count the "gain" of not having to spend mana on the PW:S as well.

    It's just a different style of play. One you spam shield the tank and play normally. The other allows you to drop your spirit pretty low to boost your crit/mastery higher to get more healing out of your other spells.

    Personally I think that's the greatest benefit of the LMG is the amount of mana you can gain from using it for rapture procs. Other wise it's just kinda blah and doesn't really do much. You can save your L90 talents like halo for that but that's kinda bad since most of the time you take things like halo and cascade for a specific reason during encounters not just to use whenever.

    Over all a priests greatest amount of healing comes from atonement, divine aegis and usually the L90 talents all of which benefit far more from the increased crit/mastery you can get from lowering your spirit. So, you'll be able to heal more by using less PW:S's and abusing the LMG procs for mana.

  4. #24
    You gain no mana from utilizing rapture during the LMG proc. You would have gained the exact same mana without the LMG proc. Rapture is tied to its ICD and just that. Whether you have the LMG or not is irrelevant, unless you're trying to play the rapture cooldown by PW:S spam, hoping to shorten the gap between procs, but that's not what you're implying. Even if you did that, I highly doubt you'd be able to track your active PW:S on the raid and predict the time of your rapture procs as to not waste mana on too early or too late PW:S casts.

    The LMG allows you to conserve mana and to temporarily increase throughput, which is a lot different from "gaining mana". The LMG has an opportunity cost, which usually at least is atonement. If you're spending each and every LMG proc on PW:S spam, the opportunity cost of your proc is 27000-40000 mana, the cost of 2-3 PW:S. Which in turn again means that you're wasting ~25000 mana each time you don't spam PW:S but keep smiting while the LMG procs. But that is very theoretical, since you can't guarantee that the PW:S you cast actually get absorbed. The fact that you're able to spam 40000 mana during a proc doesn't mean that you "gained" mana. Other than that, what you said about halo applies to rapture as well.

    We can happily debate on how much mana the LMG saves with what playstyles. All I want to say is that relating the LMG proc and rapture to each other is incorrect.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Selesnya View Post
    You gain no mana from utilizing rapture during the LMG proc. You would have gained the exact same mana without the LMG proc. Rapture is tied to its ICD and just that. Whether you have the LMG or not is irrelevant, unless you're trying to play the rapture cooldown by PW:S spam, hoping to shorten the gap between procs, but that's not what you're implying. Even if you did that, I highly doubt you'd be able to track your active PW:S on the raid and predict the time of your rapture procs as to not waste mana on too early or too late PW:S casts.

    The LMG allows you to conserve mana and to temporarily increase throughput, which is a lot different from "gaining mana". The LMG has an opportunity cost, which usually at least is atonement. If you're spending each and every LMG proc on PW:S spam, the opportunity cost of your proc is 27000-40000 mana, the cost of 2-3 PW:S. Which in turn again means that you're wasting ~25000 mana each time you don't spam PW:S but keep smiting while the LMG procs. But that is very theoretical, since you can't guarantee that the PW:S you cast actually get absorbed. The fact that you're able to spam 40000 mana during a proc doesn't mean that you "gained" mana. Other than that, what you said about halo applies to rapture as well.

    We can happily debate on how much mana the LMG saves with what playstyles. All I want to say is that relating the LMG proc and rapture to each other is incorrect.
    During an LMG proc it costs nothing to cast your shields so if you gain a rapture proc during that time of course it will gain you mana as normally it still costs mana to cast the shield but you gain that back from rapture so essentially its mana neutral.

    Every LMG proc your going to mostly want to spam shields depending on the situation possibly 2 shields and PoM, main focus of course is to maximise rapture procs to maintain as much mana as possible, any rapture procs during LMG proc shields are just a bonus to your extra mana.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    So many people in this thread don't realize that rapture doesn't mean you gain mana or have mana returned equal to X amount of spirit. Rapture just means PW:S is mana neutral. The only way to GAIN mana is from using PW:S during a LMG proc. It doesn't matter if you have a 10 min long encounter and PW:S on CD the tank and get 46 rapture procs out of that you don't actually gain a single point of mana you just don't end up spending any. But, on like a 5 min fight with an average of 2 PPM you'd gain 137250 mana from only using PW:S during the LMG proc... well technically it'd be double that if you want to count the "gain" of not having to spend mana on the PW:S as well.
    That's just not true, because you forget to factor in both the fact that if you hold shields for rapture CD's, you spend less rapture procs = you spend more mana (less free casts), and you forget that if you WEREN'T casting PW:S, you'd be casting something else that *costs* mana. Your assumption is that just because your mana pool grows, you gain mana. This is not true.

    Consider this:
    You have a 300K manapool.
    You have one rapture proc and one 4 second meta proc in a 10 second timespan.
    Every spell costs 10K mana to cost and takes 1 second, so 10 spells total (just over simplifying it, to make it 100% clear).

    Now, 10 spells of 10K mana per in a 10 second timespan is obviously 100K mana spent.
    4 of those spells will be cast under meta gem.
    1 of those under rapture.
    This is the two scenarios (use rapture during the meta gem proc, or outside it):
    4x Free casts with Meta Gem. 1x Free cast with Rapture. 5x casts that costs mana. 50K mana spent, 250K mana pool left.
    3x Free casts with Meta Gem. 1x Free cast that returns 10K mana due to meta gem. 6x casts that costs mana. 300K+10K=310K. 310K-60K=250K.

    Hopefully the above will help you see how dumb what you said is. Sure, it looks funny that you get a chunk of mana returned to you, but that's really all it does. The overall end result will be exactly the same mana return.

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