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  1. #201
    Legendary! Sigma's Avatar
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    if you cant be arsed filling in an 10min "Application" then you obviously have no intention of spending time reading up on Class, Game, and Boss Mechanics. Let alone taking the time to read up and watch tactic videos on up coming encounters or how to get the most out of your character, The application process is not only to see what you have supposedly done, it is also a way for other officers who may not have spoken to you to get a feel of who you are, what you state you are capable of and what your goals are.

    They are also a great way to weed out those people who would not be welcomed into our communities, you know the type Get an invite then immediately start causing grief, begging for gold / boosts etc. I am sure that if you don't want to fill in an app that there are lots of guilds out there, But don't complain that they are filled with bad's when they employ an open door policy and have no method of screening a recruits suitability.

  2. #202
    Herald of the Titans Puffler's Avatar
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    Its pointless, people just lie in applications anyway, i've only ever raided with 2 guilds in WoW and never applied because its a pointless and retarded practice.


    Gone are the days when you would get a good guy in your group and try to get him to join ur guild :P
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  3. #203
    There are plenty of guilds you can join that don't have an application process. And being that so few people are actually even raiding normal/heroic modes, those guilds are probably just fine for the majority of wow players. You can pug flex through OQ, I've done it plenty of times.

    If you're seeking a position in a higher level guild, like heroic raiding, then an application process is there for a reason. Maybe you're server transferring. Should a guild accept you with little expectation that you're going to work out, and have you waste your time/money xferring in order to be disappointed? I've joined guilds like that, that have no intention of bringing you into a raid when they tell you to server transfer. Is that better?

    Really though, complaining that you aren't able to write a decent application because you're too lazy or because "everybody lies on them" is just silliness. If you have people in your guild looking over applications that know what they're doing, they'll figure out when applicants are lying, or when they're copy/pasting shit from a guide and they don't really know how their rotation works. If you're butthurt because you can't write an application decent enough to get into the guild you want to join, you should figure out what you're doing wrong, not complain on MMO champion.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    And I can assure you the recruitment officers would rather be playing the game or drinking beer or whatever rather than reading applications or building web sites. Try to remember there are other people involved than you. Nobody likes application processes, it would be amazing if great players just appeared out of nowhere to fill a raid spot, but unfortunately the world does not work like that and a large amount of boring work from both applicants and officers has to go into filling those spots.
    Of course people would rather be doing other things. Take a look at the ridiculous application system that's in place now. Why is it predominantly like this?

    Because people can server xfer their doucheness away without consequence. There is no more accountability to people's actions. There is no more challenging content outside of raids to actually meet people ingame and build relationships in which guilds are formed. There's no ladder of progression to actually get better. It was LFR, then apply to guilds and do normals. (I guess there is flex now and its changing in WOD too, lockouts, difficulty etc. It seems to be a step in the right direction.)

    So instead of playing the game you're all sitting in an awkward vent interview which imo is worse then a face to face one. You transfer over and what if the guild disbands weeks later, or you don't make the cut, or some of them are total dicks. Yeah that's life, but to have to deal with that bs in a game too in that matter is insane. Gee I just wasted all this time/money to get here only to be stuck on a server with nobody I know. There has to be a better way. The system is so broken that people have to resort to this and treat it like a job instead of a game.

    Thing is in TBC/WOTLK I did meet amazing players out of the blue. They got more and more rare as time went on. Found them through heroics/10mans We joined up and it worked great. I still keep in touch with these people to this day. Word of mouth was common too.

    Hey we need another warlock right? Well I met this guy in H Slabs and he was legit, he knew his shit and was hilarious. He's looking to raid. He's cool with doing some tryouts in KZ and he can make all our raid times.

    Random tell "Hello, I was wondering if you needed x role for 25's. I'm willing to do some heroics with you guys in vent and go from there if it works."

    Yes you got jerks and clowns in that process too, but those experiences were far superior to actually applying and nobody wasted any money/time server xfering, interviews, etc. Its funny but I actually found the application system to be a huge cause of my burnout. I was just so sick of applications, interviews, scanning recruitment forums. It got to the point I was actually spending as much if not more time looking for groups of people to play the game with then actually playing the game.

  5. #205
    Had a mage in my old guild get invited to the, at the time, top guild on the server based on a recommendation of one of their members that he was a top dps. This was true. He was able to skip the whole app business.

    How'd he do?

    He wiped them on Archimonde repeatedly for an hour before they realised he wasn't decursing himself and dying. Needless to say he was kicked from said guild and then denied re-entry to mine.

    If you can take the 5 - 10 mins to slog through an app, you have the patience to actually read up and know your class. And more importantly the only guilds ASKING for apps these days are guilds going for World/Server ranking. So if spending those 5 - 10 mins to show those people that you'll be a fit is too much WORK for you then all you're asking is to be carried to easy gear and boss kills. Which is the typical mentality of the LFR/Flex hero.

    And what guilds going for World/Server rankings avoid like the plague.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  6. #206
    I understand why so many people don't want to fill in applications because the vast majority of applications I've read are just pure bad and probably written by people who don't like applications. There's no effort put in them, it's like reading a bad essay written by an average 3rd grader.

    It's not a rule obviously, but the best applications I've read are also written by one of the best players I've met.

  7. #207
    The Patient Jonticus's Avatar
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    In my experience Guilds with application processes have been far superior to those without in every way. That is why guilds require them, it works.

  8. #208
    The Patient Cyonis's Avatar
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    The guild I am in has an application form, but we accept kind of everone as long as they show dedication. That's what the app form is for us, to filter out the people that want to be carried or do not care. It's not long, it does not require you to post any logs or any rotation, just asks you why you want to be in our guild. And in general those writing more than just 100 words on their app are indeed the players we want in our guild.

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  9. #209
    I read through this whole thread and it really puzzles me how this is even an issue. Guild applications are there to screen potential recruits. To people suggesting to have a chat or a test flex run with recruits - this usually is a next step of the process but first is the screening of bad applications.

    There are basically two mindsets: either your WoL parses get you in or not being an ass gets you in. While I can understand that there are guilds and like-minded people that believe raiding dedication and ability to play your character well is a deciding factors, for me much more important is knowledge if the recruit (or the guild I'm applying to) is the best fit for me personally/socially.

    Our guild has an app form with a lot of questions. Some are very basic ones and some are much more "exotic" - main point of that app is firstly to have something written what whole guild can read and comment on, for us to see if the person can be bothered with investing time into filling in application and most importantly to see if their answers fit with our guild's style.

    Our guild has been going strong and raiding since early Vanilla, we have 100+ members and we rarely loose people. We loose people to WoW itself as they quit the game after couple of years but very little leave the guild to join a different one. I strongly believe that this is due to our application process and letting in only people who are a good fit.

    on the completely unrelated news - we are constantly recruiting, even more so that WoD is coming

  10. #210
    The Patient Cyonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hlx View Post
    I read through this whole thread and it really puzzles me how this is even an issue. Guild applications are there to screen potential recruits. To people suggesting to have a chat or a test flex run with recruits - this usually is a next step of the process but first is the screening of bad applications.

    There are basically two mindsets: either your WoL parses get you in or not being an ass gets you in. While I can understand that there are guilds and like-minded people that believe raiding dedication and ability to play your character well is a deciding factors, for me much more important is knowledge if the recruit (or the guild I'm applying to) is the best fit for me personally/socially.

    Our guild has an app form with a lot of questions. Some are very basic ones and some are much more "exotic" - main point of that app is firstly to have something written what whole guild can read and comment on, for us to see if the person can be bothered with investing time into filling in application and most importantly to see if their answers fit with our guild's style.

    Our guild has been going strong and raiding since early Vanilla, we have 100+ members and we rarely loose people. We loose people to WoW itself as they quit the game after couple of years but very little leave the guild to join a different one. I strongly believe that this is due to our application process and letting in only people who are a good fit.

    on the completely unrelated news - we are constantly recruiting, even more so that WoD is coming
    I just took a moment to read your guilds application - I love it. I think these kind of apps are great. I do hate the ones where you have to post your pc specs etc. One even said "No laptops". My laptop runs wow just fine :|

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  11. #211
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    I'll just give you a brilliant example of why it can be a waste of time to have a long talk on TS, rather than just the application.

    I contacted a potential recruit via the recruitment forums, added his battle-tag and he contacted me. Asked for a chat on TS, before applying. He just kept talking but seeing he was 14/14 Heroic (which it turned out he had been boosted to), I decided to take the time. Due to him being from Germany, his English skills weren't the best and I even had to help him with the application. Not giving him the right answers, but explaining what things meant and how to spell it.

    Anyways, he gets accepted for trial and less than a week after, we were approached by a German guild that he'd just applied to. Needless to say he was a retard but the point is, I could have saved a lot of time talking to this idiot, had I just insisted that he fill out the application and that's it.

    This last week or so I've been through 5 applications and if I had to speak with all of them on TS, I would have had to spend a lot of time that I don't really have.

    You can say what you want about how specific application forms are stupid, silly or just plain retarded. But keep in mind, that just because you say you're pro, doesn't really mean that guilds can trust you. Cause anyone can claim to be pro, yet few can live up to it.

  12. #212
    Brewmaster Zaxio's Avatar
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    Interesting...i always enjoy on applications who takes me more time to fill than mine CV (which i simply copy paste from text folder )
    Last time when i write appl (for mine sister) tooks me 5-6 hours and that was just standart one with no extra questions

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