Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
11
LastLast
  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorondil View Post
    How come after 10 years of wow, people still have to fill in stiff boring applications that take way too long to fill in. Seriously I've put more time into applying to the last guild I joined than I had to put time into creating my CV which got me my job (accountant), does this fail to make sense to some of you?

    What do you learn about someone's raiding capabilities by reading a fuckload of random shit? half the shit I write are blatant lies or stuff I copypasted from theorycrafting sites.

    Why not fe. just invite them to an alt-flex guild-run and talk a bit on ts/vt during the raid? that will tell you fuckloads more about the person and show his/her raiding capabilities.

    Yes, I realize I could "just" make my own raiding guild out of thin air using this method, but I'm kinda cba to be a GL/RL.

    Oh yeah, anyone looking for a ranged dps? ^^

    EDIT: I'm also not talking about just the elite guilds, I'm talking about your average 9/14 HC raiding guilds at this point.
    Applications are designed to tell you something about the person that is applying, more than tell you about what that person knows. And the reason guilds still want them, is that any guild leader that has been around for a while has seen the impact that one toxic personality can have on even a stable well run guild. The application process is the first hurdle to trying to stop those people ever getting within range of your roster.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  2. #162
    This just in. Vorondil wants you to run Flex with every applicant you get.

    Everything is just wrong with your logic, lmao. Inbefore 560 iLvl and wants to join a 10/14 HC guild when he called it for a shit progress.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by durrtygoodz View Post
    I will agree though, that some applications ask some pretty stupid shit. But if you don't like the app, just don't apply. No need to complain about it.

    Here are some hilarious sample questions from an application to a guild that will remain unnamed:

    * Please explain, very briefly, the main function of the following resources:

    - Elitist Jerks
    - Wowhead
    - The Curse Client
    - Simcraft
    - The Absence section of the guild forum

    * How many Noodles can you take from a Noodle cart?

    * Look at the date. D = day, M = month, Y = year. Use those numbers.
    How much is 3*Y-5*D*M+4*Y*0-28?
    To all those who may be wondering, the guild in question is Crimson, from Al'Akir-EU and I'm the author of said ''hilarious sample questions''. The reason these questions are included in the template is because the overall idea of the template is to get the standard required information, as well as be some sort of ''idiot test''. The reason you want this is simple - you don't want to waste your time with people you're not interested in bringing or with people too lazy to answer simple questions. I don't ask people to explain each section of Simcraft graphs and tables (I get this might be a challenge for most damage dealers, because most people nowadays don't have a clue about why they choose X stat over Y stat to achieve best results), instead I ask them what EJ and Wowhead are - I think almost everyone knows this. I ask them what the Absence section is for, because I explained exactly how and when you use it in the Guild Rules (public post in the same section of the forum and you're supposed to read it before you apply). If you see something like ''uhm I dunno?'' and then ''Did you read the Guild Rules? - Yes'' later on in the app, you can immediately write ''Declined'' and save yourself the effort of reading the rest. I get that most people who cry that writing an application is a long process have never really been in a position in which they had to review many applications by others. Over the last three years, I've read each and every application that was posted to my guild site and where applicable, I provided a thorough analysis of what was submitted. You can't just say ''no'' to someone who spent an hour writing you an application, but again, you can't spend a lot of time writing detailed reasons to why you're declining someone or asking more questions over and over if the applications just keep coming in on a daily basis. Here's where the ''oh this application will take time to fill'' part comes in - it filters out people who can't be bothered writing it because it's long and only leaves you with those who really want to join you, so you can provide them with the proper treatment. It's a good thing to note that in the last year, almost all of our trials were promoted to raiders and are still raiding with us. I guess the picky arrogant elitists are good at picking people for their roster.

    To all those ''modern raiders'' who think applying to guilds is stupid and guilds should just invite you to trial because you're ''leet'' and ''have amazing logs'' - raiding wasn't really about logs in the first place. Raiding is about people working together to overcome challenges and when you want to work with someone, you want them to fit in well with your team. We're talking about spending 16 hours a week together (this is how much we raid) with people who you've never met before. You have the application process where you judge them, not only by their logs, but also by their reaction to constructive criticism, the way they voice their opinion and by how much effort they invest in what they do. You need to be able to tell that they are worth your time.

    And to that person who stated they ''write a bunch of lies in their applications anyway'' (or however it went), the community is as bad as it is today because of people like you. It makes me sad even reading statements like those and thinking I have to look at such applications from time to time.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by mswhiskerson View Post
    Why do you make so many applications? Because either you are very bad at applications or you are applying above your weight.

    Why do you join guilds full of failures and d-bags? Because you are bad at researching the guild you're applying to.

    Either those things, or you're exaggerating.
    I thought about posting some of my ICC HM guilds, as they have all long disbanded, but that would be besides the point.

    Most of the guilds I was app-ing to in Cata were FAR below my "weight class" as I was looking for less raid nights and a more casual approach to raiding. I had gotten pretty burned out on the seriousness of raiding 6-7 days a week, mostly from the time I got home from work until so late at night I was getting only a few hours of sleep at the beginning of raid tiers.

    What I found was the guilds that were less hardcore were often MORE of a pain in the ass to apply to and deal with!
    I was a bit shocked.
    (and the reason I was applying so much was because I was applying as a pure DPS spec; that can be an enormous pain in the ass, and especially early Cata, with hundreds of guilds popping up out of no where, no one was filling tank spots.)

    I also found that most, if not all, of those guilds that made it such a pain in the ass to apply to had their forums hidden from non-members, meaning I had no recourse to look up the attitudes and behavior of the members.
    I remember several times getting forum access to my new guild, and thinking "oh jesus Christ, what have I gotten myself into..."
    I'll never forget a particularly unsavory time when I gained access to the guild only to find out that it was so racist, their "members only" forum and loot distribution site used racist slurs as rankings for loot priorities.
    Needless to say, that didn't come up during the application.

    I guess it would be fair to say that apps were the main reason I got tired of looking for a raiding guild, coupled with the high cost of character transfers (and the waiting period) because the app process often isn't a two way street, and it sucks being told you're paying $35 to transfer to a guild that did amazingly well the last tier, but is so internally broken and nasty that 90% of the raid team quits the minute you join, or who recruited you for a bench spot in case of attendance issues and didn't mention that, or who's raid leader screams racial slurs at you over vent for 4 hours a night.

  5. #165
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    3,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikthas View Post
    To all those who may be wondering, the guild in question is Crimson, from Al'Akir-EU and I'm the author of said ''hilarious sample questions''. The reason these questions are included in the template is because the overall idea of the template is to get the standard required information, as well as be some sort of ''idiot test''. The reason you want this is simple - you don't want to waste your time with people you're not interested in bringing or with people too lazy to answer simple questions. I don't ask people to explain each section of Simcraft graphs and tables (I get this might be a challenge for most damage dealers, because most people nowadays don't have a clue about why they choose X stat over Y stat to achieve best results), instead I ask them what EJ and Wowhead are - I think almost everyone knows this. I ask them what the Absence section is for, because I explained exactly how and when you use it in the Guild Rules (public post in the same section of the forum and you're supposed to read it before you apply). If you see something like ''uhm I dunno?'' and then ''Did you read the Guild Rules? - Yes'' later on in the app, you can immediately write ''Declined'' and save yourself the effort of reading the rest. I get that most people who cry that writing an application is a long process have never really been in a position in which they had to review many applications by others. Over the last three years, I've read each and every application that was posted to my guild site and where applicable, I provided a thorough analysis of what was submitted. You can't just say ''no'' to someone who spent an hour writing you an application, but again, you can't spend a lot of time writing detailed reasons to why you're declining someone or asking more questions over and over if the applications just keep coming in on a daily basis. Here's where the ''oh this application will take time to fill'' part comes in - it filters out people who can't be bothered writing it because it's long and only leaves you with those who really want to join you, so you can provide them with the proper treatment. It's a good thing to note that in the last year, almost all of our trials were promoted to raiders and are still raiding with us. I guess the picky arrogant elitists are good at picking people for their roster.

    To all those ''modern raiders'' who think applying to guilds is stupid and guilds should just invite you to trial because you're ''leet'' and ''have amazing logs'' - raiding wasn't really about logs in the first place. Raiding is about people working together to overcome challenges and when you want to work with someone, you want them to fit in well with your team. We're talking about spending 16 hours a week together (this is how much we raid) with people who you've never met before. You have the application process where you judge them, not only by their logs, but also by their reaction to constructive criticism, the way they voice their opinion and by how much effort they invest in what they do. You need to be able to tell that they are worth your time.

    And to that person who stated they ''write a bunch of lies in their applications anyway'' (or however it went), the community is as bad as it is today because of people like you. It makes me sad even reading statements like those and thinking I have to look at such applications from time to time.

    My GM pretty much sums it up. Currently we're in the process of recruiting for WoD and that means we're getting a lot of applications, like we just had 2 today. We spend a lot of time and put in a lot of effort and dedication to make sure, our guild won't end like many others - dying cause the leadership isn't competent enough to ensure the people they recruit are actually worth recruiting in the first place.

    The amount of BS applications we've read over the years and still replied in a decent manner makes me wanna cry tbh. But as long as we can see people are actually putting in the effort, we still think that giving them a proper reply - even if declining them - is the only fair thing to do. And if someone writes "Cbf answering your silly questions", we can then say "We cbf with your attitude" and be done with it. It's actually quite simple.

    Oh and about the noodle cart. It's a joke question, but apparently the joke went over someone's head^^. The reason behind it though, is that we got a trial who was like 10/14 Heroic and he actually didn't know, that you can take 6 in total. So every time a cart was placed, he'd take one and after a wipe he'd be like "Sigh, 300 stat food is so expensive atm, this wipe just cost me 100g" rofl.

    Anyways, in general I'd say that the people who don't understand why they have to fill out an application, are probably not the sort of player those guilds are looking for in the first place......

  6. #166
    It's mostly for us to get a brief idea of what the player might be capable of and more-so just to prove that they really want in. If they can't be bothered to spend a few minutes filling in an application then we don't want them, it's a game but sticking to a strict schedule throughout the tier takes a lot of dedication some times.

  7. #167
    If someone is too lazy to fill out an application, then more than likely they are too lazy to take the time to research fights/their class/optimal playstyles/everythingelseunderthesunrequiredforraiding.

    Of course, filling out an application doesn't prove all of the above- it at least weeds out the few that don't like spending time to benefit anyone other than themselves. Also, just by how someone "comes across" is a good way to tell if they will be a good fit for your raid group. Remember: Everyone is paying $15 a month in that raid. They all want the best experience possible. If you're not a good fit for the guild as a person and as a raider, then chances are you're just going to waste peoples time because gear and experience doesn't really show much nowadays.

  8. #168
    I am Murloc! prwraith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    the stars
    Posts
    5,263
    All the most progressive content guilds i've been in from EverQuest to WoW required applications. You don't get to be #1 on the server by recruiting trash players out of trade.

  9. #169
    I think the whole process of guild applications is another reason why recruiting isn't as good as it was in the past. Big reason why its required so much now is because the game lacks any challenging content outside of raiding. In TBC if you had someone interested. Take 'em through some of the heroics on vent and if they can perform great/seem normal, then we'll take you into Kharazhan. There's no tryouts anymore in game. Server recommendations were big too. Everyone knew everyone for the most part. Guilds talked about who was good/bad a jerk/good shit and you couldn't just server xfer/name change your doucheness away. 1-60 back then was way worse then 15 dollars now. If you had to do it once I guarantee you would of never done it again. You have alot of thinking time on your hands making that long grind again. Like WOW jail LOL.

    I'm sick of the whole guild application bs, I did it WOTLK multiple times transferring servers to see guilds disband a month later and being told on different occasions in applications that well you're gear isn't top notch. Well no shit sherlock but look at the damage I'm doing with what I have, I'd give you a run for your money if we were on an even playing field. Point is it was tougher then actually getting a job that pays six figures (I'm not exaggerating that it really was).

    I will never ever seriously apply for a guild again in my gaming "career" fuck that. I guess there's LFR for me, well Fuck that too, I'd rather quit the game. No wonder I'm not playing WOW anymore. Even in FF14, some dude's like you need to sign into the guild website. No i don't, I just want to play the damn game. I can carry my weight and get along with everyone but I'm not signing into your circle jerk bs website. If you're going to kick me for not wanting to sign into a website and I'm good everywhere else, you're priorities are messed up.

  10. #170
    Brewmaster catbeef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    london, england
    Posts
    1,392
    why do i have to fill out a boring job application when they should just let me work a trial for no pay for two weeks and see how i do?
    cow goes moo

  11. #171
    I am Murloc! prwraith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    the stars
    Posts
    5,263
    Quote Originally Posted by catbeef View Post
    why do i have to fill out a boring job application when they should just let me work a trial for no pay for two weeks and see how i do?
    Sure but how do we differentiate between you and the 50 other people who want this two week trial? Should we take 1 person a week? Because we can't risk removing our core players and not getting bosses down.

  12. #172
    I love the part where guild members thinking their established spot grants them divine knowledge start to discuss theorycrafting with you only to do 20% less dps during your actual test.
    oh, and whatever your point of view on your class, its spells and talents, you're wrong.

    even though you're a heroic level raider since vanilla with extensive experience during all tiers and several server first =)

    maybe it's only french guilds, at least I hope.

    I also see raiding as a two way exchange, that guild needs recruitment as much as applys want to raid, but the standard seem to be thinking you're doing people a favour by letting them do their job on bosses.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by jayeffkay View Post
    I think the whole process of guild applications is another reason why recruiting isn't as good as it was in the past. Big reason why its required so much now is because the game lacks any challenging content outside of raiding. In TBC if you had someone interested. Take 'em through some of the heroics on vent and if they can perform great/seem normal, then we'll take you into Kharazhan. There's no tryouts anymore in game. Server recommendations were big too. Everyone knew everyone for the most part. Guilds talked about who was good/bad a jerk/good shit and you couldn't just server xfer/name change your doucheness away. 1-60 back then was way worse then 15 dollars now. If you had to do it once I guarantee you would of never done it again. You have alot of thinking time on your hands making that long grind again. Like WOW jail LOL.

    I'm sick of the whole guild application bs, I did it WOTLK multiple times transferring servers to see guilds disband a month later and being told on different occasions in applications that well you're gear isn't top notch. Well no shit sherlock but look at the damage I'm doing with what I have, I'd give you a run for your money if we were on an even playing field. Point is it was tougher then actually getting a job that pays six figures (I'm not exaggerating that it really was).

    I will never ever seriously apply for a guild again in my gaming "career" fuck that. I guess there's LFR for me, well Fuck that too, I'd rather quit the game. No wonder I'm not playing WOW anymore. Even in FF14, some dude's like you need to sign into the guild website. No i don't, I just want to play the damn game. I can carry my weight and get along with everyone but I'm not signing into your circle jerk bs website. If you're going to kick me for not wanting to sign into a website and I'm good everywhere else, you're priorities are messed up.
    I think someone else needs to look at themselves instead of completely judging the basis of nearly ALL decent guilds. There is a reason it exists, and its not because "oh it was just around in the past." Like all things, if it works- it stays. Personally, with your attitude I would not want you apart of my raid group. At all.

    I saw your personality and attitude because you refuse to do any sort of applications. Don't you think that the system works now? You pretty much just proved it.

  14. #174
    I am Murloc! prwraith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    the stars
    Posts
    5,263
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Vagabond View Post
    I love the part where guild members thinking their established spot grants them divine knowledge start to discuss theorycrafting with you only to do 20% less dps during your actual test.
    oh, and whatever your point of view on your class, its spells and talents, you're wrong.

    even though you're a heroic level raider since vanilla with extensive experience during all tiers and several server first =)

    maybe it's only french guilds, at least I hope.

    I also see raiding as a two way exchange, that guild needs recruitment as much as applys want to raid, but the standard seem to be thinking you're doing people a favour by letting them do their job on bosses.
    You know how long the odds are against you out damaging someone who's consistently been a server firster over the years?

    If you manage to do so, kudos to you, but that's as unlikely as me coming home to find out my apartments been turned into a harem of 16 year old girls.

  15. #175
    Other way around, I'm the guy with the exp and server firsts

    Found myself applying 3 times in the last year because guilds implode, it's always a great experience in how a little power corrupts people and how much dick sucking can be required.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Vagabond View Post
    Other way around, I'm the guy with the exp and server firsts

    Found myself applying 3 times in the last year because guilds implode, it's always a great experience in how a little power corrupts people and how much dick sucking can be required.
    I'll agree with the power/authority thing. I came back to the game with a group of guys back in October. They were all really cool people and I enjoyed playing with them. We agreed who would be GM, and since it was a 10man guild, we were going to have a strict roster so that everyone basically was 'leader'.


    Well this guy took that power and turned into a gigantic prick. Most people were 530-555 IL. I made my alt Ret pally (with no gear) my main since they needed one. 510 IL... doing 20k less than a 545 boomkin. I was called out twice after raids for "poor performance" and that I need to step it up or else they'll be looking for replacements. I was doing 98-100% of my simcraft DPS most fights, sometimes a little over 100%. At least that was a proper gauge, however I was being compared to a 545 bookin and 548 warlock, who barely did more than I did.


    Of course I left, and yes power can be a horrible thing. Few do well with power.

  17. #177
    Grunt nathanos01's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    19
    I do agree that long winded applications to join guilds are frustrating. I've filled out quite a few in the past that took me 1-2 hours each purely because I wanted to ensure my answers were sufficiently indepth, and showed that I had potential.

    However, I am all in favour of short applications to join a guild, and as such my guild does have such an app. That being said, I don't always require it to be completed.

    Generally if a prospective raider whispers me, I'll get chatting with them, and ask them a bunch of questions that effectively are in the app anyways. It also gives me a starting point from where I can research and ultimately be able to make an informed decision.

    If someone wants to join us and and can't contact us in-game, then the app process is fast and straight forward.

    Our simple questions are along the lines of character name, class, ms/os, are you skilled at playing your offspec (this is something that 10 man guilds need a lot), where do you live (so we have a basic idea of timezone), raiding experience (this is important to us because it lets us see whether you have raided previously in cutting edge heroic content), list your raiding addons (this allows us to see if they have basic things like dot timers, threat meters, and other basic raid performance tools), and a general question about whether they do research on their class and if so where do they get their information (lets us see that they're serious about performing to their maximum capabilities).

    All up this process takes 5-10 minutes to complete and gives us basic information as to whether this person is worth researching further as a prospective recruit. If the responses in the app are effectively a cbf with your app, then we generally decline. If you can't be arsed filling out a fast simple app, then we can't be arsed researching you further to decide whether you'd be a good raider. I'm sure we've turned away a couple apps who were skilled players, but for us it's not all about skill/performance, it's also about the social aspect of the game and if you don't fit in socially with the rest of the guild then that's a big problem for us.

    For every app that comes in where the potential applicant spends 10 minutes on their app, the officer team spend well over an hour together researching the player to ensure that they are appropriate for our guild. From the app process, we attempt to verify what the person has included in their app (i.e. if they tell us they killed Heroic Madness of Deathwing pre-nerf, we'll look that up). We look for raid logs so we can see whether the person is putting out appropriate numbers, not standing in fire, and handling mechanics properly. We look for their raid history (i.e. if they have the Hand of A'dal title, then it's generally accepted that they're going to be a reasonable raider), and how many times they've guild jumped over the past couple of years to see if they're simply a guild hopper using guilds as stepping stones to higher guilds (we don't like being used).

    My guild is almost an extended family, and most people who join us tend to stick around. My raid team is still 70% the same as it was when we were raiding in ICC, and most of those who are no longer with us have actually quit the game rather than moved to other guilds.

    That being said we're a heroic progression guild, so we aren't there to educate players, gear them from scratch, and/or teach them how to play.

    The app process allows us to quickly decide whether the applicant is worth investigating further, or directing them elsewhere.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Flex is not a good test of skill by any means IMO.

    They do an app for screening so that they don't waste their time bringing you alon just to have you do horribly. Apps are a way for them to be able to test people without having to test every joe who asks to join.
    What ability? The ability to find a website, register for their forum, and lie (assuming one does not have the required skills and XP).
    Yep pretty much every one who plays wow measures up.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by IIamaKing View Post
    What ability? The ability to find a website, register for their forum, and lie (assuming one does not have the required skills and XP).
    Yep pretty much every one who plays wow measures up.
    Do people really think that the people reading the apps are complete idiots?

    Also, you would be surprised about how many people lack the ability to register to a forum.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Do people really think that the people reading the apps are complete idiots?
    No where did I say that or imply that.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •