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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by motorboatt View Post
    because it completely changes playstyle, think for example Mage is all about kiting and setting up your burst and cc, while Warrior is about sticking to your target and dishing out massive dps to pressure and kill things

    while in PvE all that changes is the color of your damage skills and the order you press your buttons
    If you honestly believe this, you are far more out of touch then I could possibly believe.

    I mean, seriously. Want a basic simple test to disprove this? Go to the PTR, make a level 90 Destro Lock. Pull 10 things in a level 90 zone. Try to kill them all without dying. Now repeat the exact same process with a level 90 mage, and try to do it exactly the same way. Guarantee you end up dead if you try to play a mage the same way you try to play a lock.

    Just because you dont have to react exactly the same way in PvE as you do in PvP does not magically make every class just a carbon copy of eachother with different colored damage abilities. Warlocks play WAY different then Mages, which play differently then hunters.

  2. #22
    Dreadlord
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    obvious troll.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2014-01-12 at 01:01 AM.

  3. #23
    High Overlord az2d's Avatar
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    this dude has a point, people saying he has a stupid argument.. well guess what, you're the ones that are stupid!

    Flaming isn't tolerated here
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2014-01-12 at 01:12 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by az2d View Post
    this dude has a point, people saying he has a stupid argument.. well guess what, you're the ones that are stupid!
    Your post bears many similarities to the OP.

    Namely, both are subjective opinions presented as fact without any substantiation, choosing to completely ignore all contrary evidence in favor of your own opinion.

    The only difference between your post and the OP is that the OP didn't choose to insult others with his posts.

  5. #25
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    Because i've been playing my hunter since early/mid vanilla and I don't want to change class?

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  6. #26
    Because if PvE balance wasn't important every raid would consist of a single dps spec, a single tank spec and a single healer spec. I'm not sure many would be happy with such an outcome.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Because if PvE balance wasn't important every raid would consist of a single dps spec, a single tank spec and a single healer spec. I'm not sure many would be happy with such an outcome.
    It might help quell a little of the "give us vanilla servers" crowd though.
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  8. #28
    PVE balance matters mainly due to how raids have a limited amount of space to bring players to take down bosses.

    If the pve game wasn't so centered on killing bosses within limited duration fights the balance would be tweaked differently. As it is, the devs are trying to limit the reasons players have to avoid a specific class.

  9. #29
    Because when you progress to the higher difficulty raiding, you can no longer afford to skimp on such basic thing as Damage/Healing output or tanking ability.

    When your raid dies to enrage, just because they missed like 20 seconds off the timer, stuff begins to boil and people start wishing their raid would be filled with Destruction Warlocks instead of random other riff raff.

    It is the same as PvP really, sure you can bring any class to arenas and do relatively good, but as a team of 3 in order to get higher on them e-peen ranks, you need to start bringing some very particular setups, because they work good together and because the classes themselves are very potent to begin with.

  10. #30
    Troll thread if I ever saw one.

    So self-absorbed to believe that since blizz esteems PvE so highly they must be picking on you. Lol.

    Balance is key. I wish that people wouldn't QQ about warriors in PvP so they could be great in PvE. It goes both ways...

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kreebs View Post
    obvious troll.

    Infracted
    Quote Originally Posted by az2d View Post
    this dude has a point, people saying he has a stupid argument.. well guess what, you're the ones that are stupid!

    Flaming isn't tolerated here
    Quote Originally Posted by Treeroy Jenkins View Post
    Troll thread if I ever saw one.
    The real question is, how many infractions will the OP manage to bait out before the thread dies?
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  12. #32
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    I recently returned to the game after taking a few months off to finish my degree. I've been playing since the very early days of BC, and I think that PvP in WoW is in the absolute worst state I have ever seen it. Base resilience was an idiotic idea in my opinion, the CC is completely out of control, healers are extremely frustrating to attempt to solo...none of this was going on several years ago.
    And so considering the shoddy state of PvP, I wonder why in the world someone like the OP would raise such a question anyway. The so-called "balance" in PvP now is that Everyman has 72 percent damage reduction versus other players (a completely ludicrous amount, imo) and every class has multiple forms of CC, most of it instant and unable to be countered, dodged, or mitigated. Remember back in BC when classes had some distinction in the BGs? It isn't like that anymore.
    I'm most certainly not saying that the PvE in this game is perfect, but from what I am seeing now, and have been especially since MoP dropped, PvE is about the ONLY place that there is any actual balance, any appreciable difference betwixt the classes.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by motorboatt View Post
    I get in PvP balance matters because when there's no balance its frustrating to play because you can be more skilled but still lose because of imbalance

    but what does it matter in PvE?

    people already pay 25 euro to change race/faction just to increase their dps by 1% from racials, why can't they just reroll to the best DPS spec too?
    its not like it matters if you shoot red bolts, purple bolts or arrows, does it?

    I'm no PvE player and I've never been, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind balancing PvE on the account of PvP balance
    Its easier to gear a new PvP character, than a new PvE character. Why not just reroll?

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  14. #34
    Pandaren Monk NuLogic's Avatar
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    Just reroll in pvp like everyone else does. People obviously get frustrated in pve when their class doesn't perform as well as others too. You pretty much answered yourself.

  15. #35
    it matters more then pvp balance

  16. #36
    Because then dps gets sat because their class isn't a warlock. Or sat because you're not a disc priest. Etc

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    If you honestly believe this, you are far more out of touch then I could possibly believe.

    I mean, seriously. Want a basic simple test to disprove this? Go to the PTR, make a level 90 Destro Lock. Pull 10 things in a level 90 zone. Try to kill them all without dying. Now repeat the exact same process with a level 90 mage, and try to do it exactly the same way. Guarantee you end up dead if you try to play a mage the same way you try to play a lock.

    Just because you dont have to react exactly the same way in PvE as you do in PvP does not magically make every class just a carbon copy of eachother with different colored damage abilities. Warlocks play WAY different then Mages, which play differently then hunters.
    Speaking as someone with 13 90's and heroic raid exp throughout mop. I can only say that he kind of makes a point, the pve balance only matters to the extend that you should be able to kill the boss bringing any dps class, it doesn't matter much that some classes do more damage if you can still down the boss without em.

    And the rotations really aren't different, perhaps when questing, and pulling 10 mobs (lol example?) but that isn't what blizzard are balancing towards either. we are talking raid numbers, and all that changes when you switch class is the order of buttons, color of flashy proc and (possibly lack of) raid cooldown.

    While the classes feel endlessly different in a pvp environment due to synergies between classes and straight up counters to your class's strengths.

    That said i do think pve balance matters, just that pvp balance is more important when facing a "what will ruin most people's day, if this aspect is prioritized." question.

    being top dps while all other classes are viable, is less damaging than having an OP class in pvp, breaking ladders and making other classes unviable due to hard counters. (in a warrior season such as this, shadow priests are nowhere to be seen. Sucks to have rolled that class)

    the equivalent would be a raid team where if you invited an enh shaman you couldn't get past thok because he had a special anti-shaman ability disallowing them to reach garrosh (glad).

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaykay View Post
    Speaking as someone with 13 90's and heroic raid exp throughout mop. I can only say that he kind of makes a point, the pve balance only matters to the extend that you should be able to kill the boss bringing any dps class, it doesn't matter much that some classes do more damage if you can still down the boss without em.
    It still comes down to "Well, if Bobby would let his Windwalker be an alt again and play the Rogue we expected him to, we'd have progressed past this boss already. Don't you think? I want to think that. We should bench him till he changes his mind and just pug any other DPS class in his place."

    And the rotations really aren't different, perhaps when questing, and pulling 10 mobs (lol example?) but that isn't what blizzard are balancing towards either. we are talking raid numbers, and all that changes when you switch class is the order of buttons, color of flashy proc and (possibly lack of) raid cooldown.
    If you've got 13 90s I'd assume you'd know how different Feral Druid, Enhancement Shaman and Windwalker Monk are in terms of rotation and dealing with mechanics.

    That said i do think pve balance matters, just that pvp balance is more important when facing a "what will ruin most people's day, if this aspect is prioritized." question.
    As the game is prodominantly PVE, I'd rather we just go back to the same thing they've been promising for a while: Change more skills to perform differently against players so it can be balanced separately.

    the equivalent would be a raid team where if you invited an enh shaman you couldn't get past thok because he had a special anti-shaman ability disallowing them to reach garrosh (glad).
    Can't disagree with you on this.
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  19. #39
    sure don't balance PvE, fun watching paragon/method/blood legion running 18 warlocks for this whole expansion.

    then WoW just becomes about playing Warlock since no other dps matters, if you don't balance PvE then the top end raiders will ALL play 1 damn class, how bad is that for game designers to know no-one good at your game plays half the classes because 1 is better than all the others in every single way. (nothing against warlocks it was hands down the best class before changes for just about every encounter the hardest part would be gearing all of them.)

    you can argue oh but 95% of the casual playerbase won't care they're just having fun anyway, how is playing a 2nd rate class fun even for a casual, hey you spent all those hours but if you had just played this class you'll be 25% better at surviving solo'in and damage.

    so yeh pretty obvious why balance is important so every class and spec is worth playing AND also fun, not just 1 of those things, even then blizz don't always get it right but saying it doesn't matter why even bother doing it is just stupid.
    Last edited by Socialhealer; 2014-01-12 at 03:43 AM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by motorboatt View Post
    because it completely changes playstyle, think for example Mage is all about kiting and setting up your burst and cc, while Warrior is about sticking to your target and dishing out massive dps to pressure and kill things

    while in PvE all that changes is the color of your damage skills and the order you press your buttons
    Oh silly us, we forgot that every fight since Shadow of the Necropolis went live was Patchwerk. Duh. Just stand in place an push buttons is PvE.

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