How People in Muslim Countries Think Women Should Dress

[tss]

Is it a religious thing or are they trying to demean women by forcing them to do it?

Simply put, both.

[Paulosio]

i'm certainly not an islamist, but i have no problem with married wemon having to be covered up in public.theres no reason anyone should be looking at YOUR wife and no reason for her to look attracive for other men./end thread

Why can't the women impose the same rules on their husbands then ?

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Hello. I'm a Muslim and here is MY point of view.

In Islam, There are few things here and there about woman clothing. Even men. Reason is, They don't want women teasing men out there and also if a woman is married or something, only the husband gets to see how beautiful she is and what not. Also, It's not a religious thing mostly, But a cultural thing. It's tradition.

"There are a myriad of reasons why, but the easy, one sentence answer is, because they believe God has made it an obligation for believing women. In the Quran God tells the believing men and women to lower their gaze and to dress modestly. He (God) specifically addresses women when He asks them not to show off their adornment, except that which is apparent, and draw their veils over their bodies." (Quran 24:30-31)

That doesn't sound very open to interpretation.

[Minikin]

And what I'm trying to say is that I think that is naive, and overestimates the human being quite a lot. I wish you were right, I honestly do... I just can't get myself to believe it.
Humans aren't that great at self-analysis. As a result, they're not that great at assessing others either. The 'us vs. them' mentality is too powerful, and the desire not to learn is another very powerful thing. Yes; a desire not to learn. Curiously, we're a curious species that would rather not expend energy to learn about something, ANYTHING, that might change its world views (which it has grown comfortable with). While I agree that you can and should place responsibility with those who should learn about others, you still cannot expect them to take that responsibility.

For instance: As a male person, I can keep telling people how men are generally ordinary people without much of a sexist bone in their body. How all of those stereotypes around men are generally simply untrue. I can show figures to back it up, too.
But that's not going to change anyone's opinion on men. Especially not the opinion of feminists. And why is that? Because of tribalism. Many, it not most, people feel most comfortable with the idea of a tribe they belong to. A characteristic they share with the rest of the group, and an opposition to the 'opposing' group.
So how do I change people's minds about men?

By taking a stance for males against those men who ARE sexist pigs. By telling sexist women about the things men go through as a result of sexism, of course; it's part of it, but the largest part lies in trying to shut up those men who ruin it for men everywhere by being oppressive, misogynist arsehats. By reclaiming the word 'men,' and trying to remove its 'function' as a tribalist identification marker.

We can sit around all day and go 'Well, that's unfair! We're not all like that!' But at the end of the day, that is not going to make a difference, because WE are not the ones making people think we're all like that. Until we stand up to those who DO, and become louder, so that people create a different picture in their head about the word 'Muslim.' Or 'Men.' Or 'Christian.' Or 'Women.'


The answer for me is 'no,' on both counts, because I have a lot of experience with both Christians and Muslims. So they're not very different to me. However, if you are part of one group, you're automatically inclined to believe that the other group is antithesis to yours. That's just tribalism, and a part of human nature. We can deny it all we want, but that doesn't make it any less true. If you look around, you'll see that behaviour everywhere.

I hear you. And I agree. But I tend to believe in striving to be better. Humans have the POTENTIAL to be amazing at self analysis. the whole issue is who has
1. tapped into that potential
2. is working to tap into it
3. doesnot give a crap of said potential.

If someone like me [I am niether the model human nor the model muslim or the model anything] can work towards it surely others can get it around their heads too. But everyone has a time delay mechanism, some are faster some are slower some just grasp a concept a different way.

Hell think about it this way. Even though I call myself muslim many of these extremists would call me non muslim or even try to kill me, because I have a friend who is gay, I am god father to a mildly christian mostly athiest girl, and was best man at two christian weddings. These are not accomplishments, these are common going ons in life, but someone would warp it to something crazy and nasty.

We cannot change the world in one clean sweep. And its even harder to change the opinion of people on a grand scale. Besides the aim to change someones opinion, in my belief should be the last thing on someones mind. People should be so busy working to better themselves that by the end of the day there is no time to blame or point fingers at another. There is no time for judgement, when progress demands 100%.

But then again 100% is not really reachable. However the intent to work towards it, makes all the difference in the world.

[Toffie]

I just want to say that I'm from Tunisia and the VERY LARGE majority of people don't give a shit If you cover your hair and It's rare that you do find a women who have her hair covered. A full burka is also illegal there.

[Vargur]

I'm an atheist too and despise plenty of religious doctrines but that's something we should never do. That's a dangerous idea.

No, it's not. It would most likely bring world peace and end millennia of savage habits.
The next logical step after that would be one single nation across the Earth. Called Earth, or Terra, go figure.

[Uoyredrum]

Right, yeah. So you take that out on Islam. That's nice. Have you read the Bible, lately? Old Testament, Paul's letters, and all that jazz? Or have you read into Hindu mythology? Ever heard of the Thuggee? Does the word 'Zealot' ring a bell to you?

Really, stuff like this is nothing more than selective ignorance in order to feel justified in one's bias against a single group.

I never said other religions didn't have any of that, I just gave an accurate response. Calm your tits.

[imabanana]

"There are a myriad of reasons why, but the easy, one sentence answer is, because they believe God has made it an obligation for believing women. In the Quran God tells the believing men and women to lower their gaze and to dress modestly. He (God) specifically addresses women when He asks them not to show off their adornment, except that which is apparent, and draw their veils over their bodies." (Quran 24:30-31)

That doesn't sound very open to interpretation.

This isn't a quote from the Quran, there is nothing clear about "obligation" in these verses.

When you don't misquote it it's really open to interpretation. Who you're quoting is Aisha Stacey talking about HER personal interpretation of the Quran.

This is the actual translation of Quran 24:30-31 :

30. Tell the believing men to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what they do.

31. And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.

Then it also depends on the translation on which many people disagree ("their headscarves fall to cover their necklines" instead of chest for example)

Some read it as an obligation, some read it as an advice, some read "adornment" and "private parts" differently, some read this as an advice that should be adapted to current society. It is very open to interpretation. Quoting one particular interpretation of this as "Quran" is plain misinformation.

[TheGravemind]

What are you talking about? You just said in Islam they don't want women 'teasing' men...saying it's cultural or tradition doesn't make it better or rationalize it in any way.

The hijab/burqa/niqab are cultural. Islam, through the Qur'an, only says to "dress modestly," and that is addressed to BOTH genders. The rest is cultural interpolation. Wearing a headscarf is NOT mandated by any religious Islamic primary source.

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No, it's not. It would most likely bring world peace and end millennia of savage habits.
The next logical step after that would be one single nation across the Earth. Called Earth, or Terra, go figure.

I don't think we'll have a unified earth until we have space colonies, but hopefully I'm wrong. I'd love for their to be a single equitable and egalitarian government in the world.

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religion is all about power and control.

This is absolutely false and it's basically a worn out clause peddled by self-righteous atheists constantly. What does spiritual zen-Buddhism practiced by a hermit living in the mountains have to do with power or controlling others? At most, it has something to do with controlling yourself, and nothing more. The same is true for many other religions. Just because Christianity and some parts of Islam come across as seeking power and control does not entitle you to dismiss every single religion in the history of humanity as being purely about "power and control." That is a baseless and myopic conjecture that fails to address a myriad of issues, ranging from personal spirituality within the domain of religion to the fact that there are many religious traditions (see: Sufi Islam) that have nothing to do with anything in the physical world.

[Marthisdil]

I don't understand why they want women covering their hair and neck. Is it a religious thing or are they trying to demean women by forcing them to do it?

I know a lot of amish women have to do it, but I'm pretty sure that's just their religion.

It's a religious thing. Basically it's part of the tenets of Islam. Then again, another tenet of Islam is to convert all non-believers, make them slaves, or kill them.

But hey, when a majority of the believers in Islam can't upholad that tenet, why bother with the others....

Peaceful religion...

[TheGravemind]

It's a religious thing. Basically it's part of the tenets of Islam. Then again, another tenet of Islam is to convert all non-believers, make them slaves, or kill them.

But hey, when a majority of the believers in Islam can't upholad that tenet, why bother with the others....

Peaceful religion...

Nothing you just said is factual at all.

[Deleted]

This isn't a quote from the Quran, there is nothing clear about "obligation" in these verses.

When you don't misquote it it's really open to interpretation. Who you're quoting is Aisha Stacey talking about HER personal interpretation of the Quran.

This is the actual translation of Quran 24:30-31 :


Then it also depends on the translation on which many people disagree ("their headscarves fall to cover their necklines" instead of chest for example)

Some read it as an obligation, some read it as an advice, some read "adornment" and "private parts" differently, some read this as an advice that should be adapted to current society. It is very open to interpretation. Quoting one particular interpretation of this as "Quran" is plain misinformation.

see to me, i would interpret that as to ensure your private areas are covered and.. well in a more "modern" phrase.. dont dress like a slag!.

Keep yourself dressed properly and covered appropriately. there is no real need for super short skirts and titties all over the place. Dress sensibly and don't unnecessarily flout your bits

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Yes, forcing people to stop their believes will bring world peace.

Question: Why can't we just force people to stop being atheist and make the entire world Christian?
It's the same thing and that never caused wars or anything.


So? We think it's wrong when women wear a mini-skirt.
Hell, you even have politicians and other influential people claiming it's their own fault if they get raped.

It only becomes a problem when the state forces you to dress a certain way.
That is not happening in most countries.

in general public for no reason at all. The mini was first "fashioned" in the 60's when everyone was shagging everything. So its no wonder the thought train is still there in some way.

I generally find most women who wear such attire crass and shallow and the only interesting thing about them is their looks. Go to Liverpool and see how many tangos slappers you can find. then try have a conversation with them. Thank god them Irish girls come over. Now they are proper women