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  1. #101
    When subs continue to decline, and even faster, during/post WoD, you people can all start thinking "hmm maybe it wasn't GC that hurt WoW, but the age of the game or the million other factors that are ALL a part of the problem"

    I feel bad for GC, and have the utmost respect for him for putting up with a terrible community. I really hope he does amazing work at Riot.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    The developers fearing a lack of success shows how the developers changed things to improve its success. Blizzard tried multiple times to prop LFR up for those not interested in traditional raiding. It is also interesting to have seen GC then regret that push behind LFR. GC brings up the "mechinar syndrome" a bit and yet he was acting like it didnt apply to LFR. GC can be honest at times while other times there is a PR front in an attempt to steer players and that usually doesnt work well.

    Another thing with the developers shift to try and get back to rewarding players to playing with friends is that when LFD first came out it was said that if you didnt like the random nature of groups and the lack of control of who you get grouped up with that you should then form your own group. LFD was marketed more of an option on top of the traditional methods which does go along with Blizzards thoughts about it having to compete against that. In WotLK when players complained on the forums about getting bad groups the response from both players and CMs was form your own group if you didnt want to accept the increased risk. Convenience of the system proved so strong to the point that players didnt see forming your own group as an option especially when the system benefited solo queuing.

    The push then was to ensure the system itself was successful and that means prioritizing solo queuing over grouping with friends. It is good that Blizzard has at least woken up to once again realizing that socializing is a good thing for those that want it and players shouldnt be punished for being friendly. Took a bit long, but at least the ball is rolling again. Now if we could just see something done about punishing those that are toxic including selfcentered soloists.
    Extremely well put.

    There are elegant solutions to random grouping: reputation/commendation systems. This system is already working very well via openraid, in FF14 arr, even oqueue has a rating system.

    Wrath era 3.3 was really the best of all worlds. LFD for dungeons, easymode "normals" with progressive nerfs for casual raiders - who, by the way, were able to clear quite a lot of raid content during wrath with those progressive nerfs.

    I still don't understand why blizzard went away from that design. It worked amazingly well. It's hard not to point to GC and give him at least some of the blame for going away from a great system that needed only tweaking, not a complete blowing up with what they did in cata/mop.

  3. #103
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    And apparently you insist that he's a liar. He's said on many, many, many occasions before leaving and then repeatedly after leaving that "most of the decision were done as a team" and "I had far less to do with changes than people thought I did."
    Uh yes, he is a liar. Feel free to check out his own posts and see how many of the things he promised turned out to be lies.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by tangers58 View Post
    Uh yes, he is a liar. Feel free to check out his own posts and see how many of the things he promised turned out to be lies.
    Thinking youre going to do something and being unable to do it is very very different to saying youre going to do something you know youre not.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    And you need to understand the hierarchy of companies.

    Anything he did... any shot he called... was approved by a higher power or a collective group of higher powers. Once you understand that... you realize that all the blame he has received over the years... shouldn't have been entirely directed at him.
    Hierarchy? Yes. All seeing, omnipotent president? No. GC was pretty far up the food chain, and you are miss informed about how a hierarchy works. Michael Morhaime doesn't sit there qualifying the fine detail of everyone's work. Everything would grind to a halt. At the executive manager level you are answerable to cheifs of staff and above for your actions.

    The kind of things the players rage at like over nerfing / buffing, redundant and broken mechanics, unbalanced professions and racials, the fact that the UI had practically no updates ever. The content that get tweaked patch to patch basically. Yeh thast 100% his responsibility.

  6. #106
    he goes where the cash flows

  7. #107
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    There is an old idiom; and like rats abandoning a sinking ship.

    Hopefully it is not true in this case, but you can never be too sure.
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  8. #108
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
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    Man you guys are so dorky.

    Get this: RIOT paid Ghostcrawler a buttload of money because he is the BEST there is.
    @Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Masoner View Post
    Maybe.. some day paladins can get rid of Holy Power and just use their MANA.
    Holy power is a problem why? Making the class more simplistic is better?

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ogdru Jahad View Post
    When subs continue to decline, and even faster, during/post WoD, you people can all start thinking "hmm maybe it wasn't GC that hurt WoW, but the age of the game or the million other factors that are ALL a part of the problem"
    At this point the design decisions (heavily influenced by GC) made since WotLK have already done too much damage to reverse. I don't think there is anything to be done at this point than try to prolong the agonizing death of WoW while milking as much money as they can with microtransactions etc.

    I'm sure GC tried his hardest and was passionate about what he did, unfortunately he just isn't a very good designer (he's a marine biologist by trade). He seemed focused on people "seeing the content" and seemed to have this extremely simplistic mental model of players in the game. His biggest fault is not understanding the immense complexity and importance of the social structure inside the game. It used to be a game where people made friends, and that was its main strength, not the content.

    His design decisions almost universally destroyed the aspects that catalyzed communities and making friends inside the game, in order to get everyone to "see the content". LFD/LFR, 10/25 "equality", full reset every patch, etc. etc. All driven by the simplistic and naive reasoning along the lines of: "only X% of players have done this content, therefore we must come up with ways to push more players to do it". The result is that realm communities are decimated and nobody is making friends since you can essentially solo everything with LFR/LFD.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    *sigh*

    Ghostcrawler deserves some flak as lead designer when things are received poorly by the community; such is the burden of being "lead". But he isn't the sole decision maker at Blizzard. He didn't direct everything. Not every change was his alone. As a senior software engineer myself I can attest: almost all decisions are made by the team. Almost all changes are discussed and fleshed out by the team.

    Can we stop this, please? Can we stop heaping this crap on the guy?
    But he's a pompous asshole who, on several occassions, responded to people with troll-like behavior and even bragged about his yacht. When you act like a douchebag, you attract negative attention.

  12. #112
    The Lightbringer Blitzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    This thread doesn't make any sense.
    This post and location make me wonder if I know what I'm doing anymore... Very funny indeed.

    But yeah, people thing Ghost Crawler enforced and brought upon ALL changes to the game, which is false.

    It's the team's decision, can't blame 1 person for everything.
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  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    Making fights artificially last longer takes the fun out of PVP. Especially with the retarded health pools we have now.
    Have you ever played above 1500. If they ever did this I would quit so fast. Hp doesn't mean anything if my incinerate is still hitting someone for 12% of there hp. Just because they scaled something down doesn't mean the damage will magically be more balanced.
    Last edited by worstpvperus; 2014-01-15 at 09:19 AM.

  14. #114
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    It's possible that GC was everything that was wrong with WoW.

    On the other hand, it's possible that GC will make LoL 2x as popular and profitable as it is now.

    I'm rooting for 2x as popular and profitable, rather than "World of Whiners."

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    At this point the design decisions (heavily influenced by GC) made since WotLK have already done too much damage to reverse. I don't think there is anything to be done at this point than try to prolong the agonizing death of WoW while milking as much money as they can with microtransactions etc.

    I'm sure GC tried his hardest and was passionate about what he did, unfortunately he just isn't a very good designer (he's a marine biologist by trade). He seemed focused on people "seeing the content" and seemed to have this extremely simplistic mental model of players in the game. His biggest fault is not understanding the immense complexity and importance of the social structure inside the game. It used to be a game where people made friends, and that was its main strength, not the content.

    His design decisions almost universally destroyed the aspects that catalyzed communities and making friends inside the game, in order to get everyone to "see the content". LFD/LFR, 10/25 "equality", full reset every patch, etc. etc. All driven by the simplistic and naive reasoning along the lines of: "only X% of players have done this content, therefore we must come up with ways to push more players to do it". The result is that realm communities are decimated and nobody is making friends since you can essentially solo everything with LFR/LFD.
    you really still think gc is the one to blame for WoW? lol its not that gc could wave his magic hands and the devs would follow by everyting he wants. its all teambased. and ofc the stockholders. and most likly the stockholders killed wow but gc certainly didn't kill wow the way it was in tbc/vanilla. and even then i don't want vanilla wow back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    It's possible that GC was everything that was wrong with WoW.

    On the other hand, it's possible that GC will make LoL 2x as popular and profitable as it is now.

    I'm rooting for 2x as popular and profitable, rather than "World of Whiners."
    how can i man did everyting while it is clearly a team job

  16. #116
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    The push then was to ensure the system itself was successful and that means prioritizing solo queuing over grouping with friends.
    I don't know about you but I've never queued up for Raid Finder solo. I always go with at least one friend and at least earlier in the expansion with many from my guild. Same with LFD. I can't remember the last time I queued up for a dungeon in the current expansion without having someone along. Just because you don't have to doesn't mean that you can't. Same with scenarios this expansion. I can't remember queuing up for one solo.

    We'll never really know what decisions are made that would or would not have agreed with Street's wishes in the future. There will be lots of chatter about it but unless a Blizzard dev starts posting here and spills the beans it's very unlikely that Blizzard will say anything.

    Really, if you want to blame someone for all of WoW's faults, perceived or otherwise, blame Pritchard Tom Chilton. He's the Game Director and was Street's boss.

    Edit: Correcting a brain slip. I work with a guy named Tom Pritchard and that just slipped in there by mistake.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2014-01-15 at 08:30 PM.
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I don't know about you but I've never queued up for Raid Finder solo. I always go with at least one friend and at least earlier in the expansion with many from my guild. Same with LFD. I can't remember the last time I queued up for a dungeon in the current expansion without having someone along. Just because you don't have to doesn't mean that you can't. Same with scenarios this expansion. I can't remember queuing up for one solo.
    I queue with friends to avoid the plague of these options as much as possible, but it's true you get rewarded for queuing solo > as a group.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  18. #118
    I don't know why people are celebrating that GC left.

    Now you'll need to find a new scapegoat for why a 9 year old game somehow doesn't feel as fresh and fun as it used to...

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    At this point the design decisions (heavily influenced by GC) made since WotLK have already done too much damage to reverse. I don't think there is anything to be done at this point than try to prolong the agonizing death of WoW while milking as much money as they can with microtransactions etc.

    I'm sure GC tried his hardest and was passionate about what he did, unfortunately he just isn't a very good designer (he's a marine biologist by trade). He seemed focused on people "seeing the content" and seemed to have this extremely simplistic mental model of players in the game. His biggest fault is not understanding the immense complexity and importance of the social structure inside the game. It used to be a game where people made friends, and that was its main strength, not the content.

    His design decisions almost universally destroyed the aspects that catalyzed communities and making friends inside the game, in order to get everyone to "see the content". LFD/LFR, 10/25 "equality", full reset every patch, etc. etc. All driven by the simplistic and naive reasoning along the lines of: "only X% of players have done this content, therefore we must come up with ways to push more players to do it". The result is that realm communities are decimated and nobody is making friends since you can essentially solo everything with LFR/LFD.
    Wrong, he listened to the playerbase. People complained they wanted X changed for convenience and he gave them what they wanted. Now you're in the boat you're in.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    No he does not deserve it.
    When you get hired to a gaming company and your first order of business is to take the games by far and away most favored and played class (Hunter) and turn it in to the least favored and played class overnight you doom your stay with the company. He reaped what he sowed.

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