Ghost Crawler Gone, now the We = reversal

[Deleted]

Make no mistake about it. Kalgan got every bit as much flak that GC got before Kalgan was moved to the Titan project and was gradually forgotten after that.

You're thinking of Tigole (Jeff Kaplan) the guy before CG. Kalgan = Tom Chilton, the Game Director (i.e the lead of all team leads - the dude calling the shots, so to speak), he didn't go anywhere, he's been leading WoW for quite a while.

[PetersenIII]

I just wanted to point out that 1 does not equal 1/2, which certainly does not equal 2.

Muahahaha

That's exactly what I thought when I first read that. <.<

[Osmeric]

I guess you won't be upset then when they remove LFR and LFD since those systems were enacted under GC.

It's interesting that GC says the devs feared people wouldn't use LFD, when instead the opposite is now the problem: getting people to manually form groups for instances.

LFR and LFD is why WoW is doing as bad as it is right now You chew up content fast plus people no longer make friends
Before LFD, many players just never ran dungeons. I think it's a myth that it forced everyone to find friends. (GC)

While I agree with you Greg I wish it was more rewarding to do with friends.
We were worried LFD would not catch on. We were wrong. Now we need more incentives to play with friends. Some announced at B'con. (GC)

[Hyve]

if it's guaranteed where's your source.

Source: Common Sense & Game Industry Experience of Game Development Cycles

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

This thread doesn't make any sense.

"Devs that aren't GC are tweeting about changes the team wanted to make even before GC left"

Translated through the mind of a GC-hater becomes...

"GC is gone, now the game is being fixed."

[Aleksej89]

Ghost Crawlers leaving has nothing to do with the WoW's design path - ALL changes blizzard plans for the start of WoD expansion are planed months ahead, probably before GC even knew he was switching jobs.

While Ghost Crawler was a notable person inside Blizzard - he was a tiny cog in a GIGANTIC machine full of cogs.

His ability to "rule" how the game is designed is utterly false - a fact he himself stated many many times over.

Everything in blizzard is a TEAM effort, especially the game design... Blizzard probably decided they want to change a lot of things in WoD even before the patch 5.4 (or even 5.3) was released...

[Mukki]

Please explain why. Please outline every decision that 100% his, and his alone, and what the reaction was. Right, you can't.

I blame Ghostcrawler for teasing me about Alleria and Turalyon! Don't you dare tell me that wasn't his call!

[tangers58]

Maybe the new lead will know enough math to know that 1=1/2=2 and get rid of the stupid tie rule in WSG/TP!

I don't mind the not having ties, but it would be nice to switch it around so the first team to score wins

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Ghost Crawlers leaving has nothing to do with the WoW's design path - ALL changes blizzard plans for the start of WoD expansion are planed months ahead, probably before GC even knew he was switching jobs.

While Ghost Crawler was a notable person inside Blizzard - he was a tiny cog in a GIGANTIC machine full of cogs.

His ability to "rule" how the game is designed is utterly false - a fact he himself stated many many times over.

Everything in blizzard is a TEAM effort, especially the game design... Blizzard probably decided they want to change a lot of things in WoD even before the patch 5.4 (or even 5.3) was released...

Apparently you either have never had a real job or don't know what the word "Lead" means. He was in charge, the other designers worked for him, thus he was responsible.

[TheWindWalker]

Apparently you either have never had a real job or don't know what the word "Lead" means. He was in charge, the other designers worked for him, thus he was responsible.

And apparently you insist that he's a liar. He's said on many, many, many occasions before leaving and then repeatedly after leaving that "most of the decision were done as a team" and "I had far less to do with changes than people thought I did."

[Darsithis]

And apparently you insist that he's a liar. He's said on many, many, many occasions before leaving and then repeatedly after leaving that "most of the decision were done as a team" and "I had far less to do with changes than people thought I did."

There is some truth to bearing the responsibility for your team's failure. I just don't agree that so much of it should have been heaped on him.

[Pyromelter]

After reading the first responses he put up as a non blizz employee, I am more convinced than ever that GC's overall involvement was more bad than good for WoW at large. I'd give him credit for admitting "One thing I underestimated as a designer is how some players simply prefer clear power gains to interesting choices" except that people have been doing that since way way before WoW was invented (think: Luigi in Super Mario Bros 2).

Perhaps I am being a bit too harsh. Perhaps GC is really good at managing employees. It's pretty obvious to me at least that his is below average at best as a game designer. I'd be willing to put money on it that as things improve with wow, others will come around to see it this way as well.

[Kaleredar]

Maybe the new lead will know enough math to know that 1=1/2=2 and get rid of the stupid tie rule in WSG/TP!

I love that rule. You can piss off the enemy team SO much by capping in the last minute and tying, therefore making it so you win. That alone makes it worth it.

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After reading the first responses he put up as a non blizz employee, I am more convinced than ever that GC's overall involvement was more bad than good for WoW at large. I'd give him credit for admitting "One thing I underestimated as a designer is how some players simply prefer clear power gains to interesting choices" except that people have been doing that since way way before WoW was invented (think: Luigi in Super Mario Bros 2).

I preferred Peach, frankly. Many secrets were MUCH easier to get to with her gliding ability, and it allowed you more mobility around bosses.

Hey look, an interesting choice versus a clear power gain. Huh.

Perhaps I am being a bit too harsh. Perhaps GC is really good at managing employees. It's pretty obvious to me at least that his is below average at best as a game designer. I'd be willing to put money on it that as things improve with wow, others will come around to see it this way as well.

Highly doubtful, as is your spurious claim that things will "automatically improve" when they've basically kept the same team sans one guy.

[ComputerNerd]

I didn't mention GC and I am not blaming anyone except stating my opinion.

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Solution: remove welfare PVP gear. Play the game and then PVP with your earned gear.

PvP is lacking a proper progression against appropriate opponents to earn it.
PvE has normal and heroic dungeons.
PvE has several tiers and difficulties of raids.

What does PvP offer for you to earn the PvP gear before facing players who significantly outgear you ?
Nothing.

Mindless ranting throwing around the welfare term with no consideration for the reason for it being as it is.
Sounds like the entire core of this anti-GC behaviour.
Throwing around a lot of rubbish with no consideration for the fact that he was 1 person in a TEAM and not solely responsible for most, if any of the decisions that people are upset about.
And by no means the only team, only responsible for part of the game.

[nekobaka]

It's interesting that GC says the devs feared people wouldn't use LFD, when instead the opposite is now the problem: getting people to manually form groups for instances.

LFR and LFD is why WoW is doing as bad as it is right now You chew up content fast plus people no longer make friends
Before LFD, many players just never ran dungeons. I think it's a myth that it forced everyone to find friends. (GC)

While I agree with you Greg I wish it was more rewarding to do with friends.
We were worried LFD would not catch on. We were wrong. Now we need more incentives to play with friends. Some announced at B'con. (GC)

The developers fearing a lack of success shows how the developers changed things to improve its success. Blizzard tried multiple times to prop LFR up for those not interested in traditional raiding. It is also interesting to have seen GC then regret that push behind LFR. GC brings up the "mechinar syndrome" a bit and yet he was acting like it didnt apply to LFR. GC can be honest at times while other times there is a PR front in an attempt to steer players and that usually doesnt work well.

Another thing with the developers shift to try and get back to rewarding players to playing with friends is that when LFD first came out it was said that if you didnt like the random nature of groups and the lack of control of who you get grouped up with that you should then form your own group. LFD was marketed more of an option on top of the traditional methods which does go along with Blizzards thoughts about it having to compete against that. In WotLK when players complained on the forums about getting bad groups the response from both players and CMs was form your own group if you didnt want to accept the increased risk. Convenience of the system proved so strong to the point that players didnt see forming your own group as an option especially when the system benefited solo queuing.

The push then was to ensure the system itself was successful and that means prioritizing solo queuing over grouping with friends. It is good that Blizzard has at least woken up to once again realizing that socializing is a good thing for those that want it and players shouldnt be punished for being friendly. Took a bit long, but at least the ball is rolling again. Now if we could just see something done about punishing those that are toxic including selfcentered soloists.

[AeneasBK]

I blame Ghostcrawler for teasing me about Alleria and Turalyon! Don't you dare tell me that wasn't his call!

If true then a legitimate reason to hate on him.

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this.

it's so stupid

Got an alternative solution to go with that great contribution? Or is it just so stupid?

[The Ogdru Jahad]

When subs continue to decline, and even faster, during/post WoD, you people can all start thinking "hmm maybe it wasn't GC that hurt WoW, but the age of the game or the million other factors that are ALL a part of the problem"

I feel bad for GC, and have the utmost respect for him for putting up with a terrible community. I really hope he does amazing work at Riot.

[Pyromelter]

The developers fearing a lack of success shows how the developers changed things to improve its success. Blizzard tried multiple times to prop LFR up for those not interested in traditional raiding. It is also interesting to have seen GC then regret that push behind LFR. GC brings up the "mechinar syndrome" a bit and yet he was acting like it didnt apply to LFR. GC can be honest at times while other times there is a PR front in an attempt to steer players and that usually doesnt work well.

Another thing with the developers shift to try and get back to rewarding players to playing with friends is that when LFD first came out it was said that if you didnt like the random nature of groups and the lack of control of who you get grouped up with that you should then form your own group. LFD was marketed more of an option on top of the traditional methods which does go along with Blizzards thoughts about it having to compete against that. In WotLK when players complained on the forums about getting bad groups the response from both players and CMs was form your own group if you didnt want to accept the increased risk. Convenience of the system proved so strong to the point that players didnt see forming your own group as an option especially when the system benefited solo queuing.

The push then was to ensure the system itself was successful and that means prioritizing solo queuing over grouping with friends. It is good that Blizzard has at least woken up to once again realizing that socializing is a good thing for those that want it and players shouldnt be punished for being friendly. Took a bit long, but at least the ball is rolling again. Now if we could just see something done about punishing those that are toxic including selfcentered soloists.

Extremely well put.

There are elegant solutions to random grouping: reputation/commendation systems. This system is already working very well via openraid, in FF14 arr, even oqueue has a rating system.

Wrath era 3.3 was really the best of all worlds. LFD for dungeons, easymode "normals" with progressive nerfs for casual raiders - who, by the way, were able to clear quite a lot of raid content during wrath with those progressive nerfs.

I still don't understand why blizzard went away from that design. It worked amazingly well. It's hard not to point to GC and give him at least some of the blame for going away from a great system that needed only tweaking, not a complete blowing up with what they did in cata/mop.

[tangers58]

And apparently you insist that he's a liar. He's said on many, many, many occasions before leaving and then repeatedly after leaving that "most of the decision were done as a team" and "I had far less to do with changes than people thought I did."

Uh yes, he is a liar. Feel free to check out his own posts and see how many of the things he promised turned out to be lies.

[Deleted]

Uh yes, he is a liar. Feel free to check out his own posts and see how many of the things he promised turned out to be lies.

Thinking youre going to do something and being unable to do it is very very different to saying youre going to do something you know youre not.

[TheTaurenOrc]

And you need to understand the hierarchy of companies.

Anything he did... any shot he called... was approved by a higher power or a collective group of higher powers. Once you understand that... you realize that all the blame he has received over the years... shouldn't have been entirely directed at him.

Hierarchy? Yes. All seeing, omnipotent president? No. GC was pretty far up the food chain, and you are miss informed about how a hierarchy works. Michael Morhaime doesn't sit there qualifying the fine detail of everyone's work. Everything would grind to a halt. At the executive manager level you are answerable to cheifs of staff and above for your actions.

The kind of things the players rage at like over nerfing / buffing, redundant and broken mechanics, unbalanced professions and racials, the fact that the UI had practically no updates ever. The content that get tweaked patch to patch basically. Yeh thast 100% his responsibility.