1. #1

    Heroic Siegecraft Help

    Hey all, my guild is starting to work on 25 man heroic siege this week, I was looking for some help on the belt, but any advice for the fight will help.

    First off, we have 4 hunters who are very geared, I was going to send them up everytime. From there we have 2 rogues, 2 warriors, an enhance, 2 ret pallies, and 1 DK.
    I was thinking I would send the 4 hunters and 1 rogue up for every belt. Would this work? Could I send the same rogue? I've heard shadowstep is glitchy on this fight.

    Also, what order do you guys recommend? As of right now I feel the guide from warcraft academy would work best for us. Is there any real reason to deviate?

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  2. #2
    Mechagnome PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonsaii View Post
    Hey all, my guild is starting to work on 25 man heroic siege this week, I was looking for some help on the belt, but any advice for the fight will help.

    First off, we have 4 hunters who are very geared, I was going to send them up everytime. From there we have 2 rogues, 2 warriors, an enhance, 2 ret pallies, and 1 DK.
    I was thinking I would send the 4 hunters and 1 rogue up for every belt. Would this work? Could I send the same rogue? I've heard shadowstep is glitchy on this fight.

    Also, what order do you guys recommend? As of right now I feel the guide from warcraft academy would work best for us. Is there any real reason to deviate?
    The trick with Shadowstep (or was it Cloak and Dagger?) that allowed rogues to bypass Pattern Recognition has been fixed. The only classes, AFAIK, that can do every belt now, are hunters with Disengage and Laserchickens with Wild Charge.

    Whether or not you want to send all your hunters on every belt depends on how much you trust them. If you think they can get the Disengage-onto-belt trick down to a science, it'd certainly be a very strong choice. Rets, rogues, and fury warriors seem very strong on the belt (our ret is perfectly capable of solo'ing the first belt on 10-man with prepot and heroism), and AFAIK you need 5-6 people per belt on 25-man. Rogues and warriors have by far the best mobility of these classes, so I would recommend simply sending the rogues and warriors up with the hunters for alternating belts.

    If you don't think your hunters can get the Disengage trick down reliably enough to not cost you an inordinate amount of progression wipes, I would recommend sending, say 2 hunters, the warriors, and one ret for odd belts, and the other two hunters, the rogues, and the second ret for even belts. Enhancement shamans are best left to tunnel the boss, as this (assuming I do not misremember) allows them to take Primal Elementalist and tunnel the boss without worrying having to deal with their elemental derping about on the belt. They are certainly a strong back-up choice should one of your first-choice belters die during the fight, but I would try to keep them off it when at all possible.

    With regards to order, the Warcraft Academy guide seems to be a favoured choice for 25-man guilds. You should, however, personally assess whether your comp will deal well with mines, as the WA guide assumes, to some degree, that you can deal easily with these. If you have a ton of mages (RoF lawl), DW Frost DKs, or druids, the fight should be relatively painless for you if you choose to deal with mines. If you do not have the comp to deal with mines, you may be forced to attempt the "harder" strat and deal with drills consistently instead of mines. I would not consider dealing with both drills and mines consistently a viable strat, however, so IMHO stay away from killing laser on belts.

  3. #3
    I'm a WW monk and I can go up every time with transcendence.

  4. #4
    If you have enough engineers in raid, dealing with mines isn't really that hard.
    Shaman - Hunter - Monk - Druid - Warlock - DK - another Shaman - one more Shaman

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Faeglendir View Post
    If you have enough engineers in raid, dealing with mines isn't really that hard.
    Explain please?

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  6. #6
    EMP belts work on bombs to stun them. We use 3 hunters going up on all belts, then a warrior/rogue on evens with the hunters and a ret/feral on the odds with the hunters.
    Narye/Sofex - Zul'jin US PvE - 4/17M T17- 9 hr/wk - Exiled Legion

  7. #7
    You have 4 hunters? 4 Hunters could easily do every single belt if they can get the disengage down (570+ ilvl). Heck.. I'm pretty sure you could actually rotate 3 hunters for the first 4 belts, then 4 hunters for 2 belts, and then 3 hunters for 4 belts if they have AoC. One pops stampede, then the other two just use normal cool downs/none. Then a new hunter pops CDs/stampede on the next one, and on and on. I do about 12-15 mil damage with stampede up, and as it only has 30 million health, that just leaves you 15 mil damage for 2 hunters.

    The extra DPS on boss would cut kill time down a lot, too.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Alassiel's Avatar
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    We're running 2 groups, 5 fellas each. A combat rogue in each, the 2nd group(which I'm in) has also a feral and an enha shammy + 2 hunters(they go for each conveyor belt) disengaging.

    We're mostly killing missile turrets, except for wave 6 where we go mines, wave 12 where we go laser. We've managed to get the boss down to 28% within 43 wipes.

  9. #9
    High Overlord
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    We have 4 hunters and 2 monks up all the time (now that it's on farm, dropping one of either is possible). While this might seem like overkill, it actually gives the hunters some breathing space to get off the belt in time and dismiss their pets plus heal up if needed. Windwalkers will be able to do consistently high damage on every weapon without relying on CDs, can cheese ToK for extra damage and heal the hunters. Shadow priests work rather well too with 3 orbs saved and a levitate.

  10. #10
    EMP belts work on bombs to stun them.
    Last edited by bachertzhan; 2014-01-15 at 02:17 AM.

  11. #11
    High Overlord
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    EMP belts stun the mines, and they do not DR. They are game-breaking when going with a mine strat. We had 6 belt stuns on our kill, and I (BM Monk) just co-ordinated every stun. This combined with Ring of Frost, one aoe grip, Leg sweep, mines for the most part won't be an issue. Just make sure you stagger your belt stuns and use them at the smartest times. The mines come out a few at a time, and it takes a little practice to learn when to stun them to best effect.

    Windwalkers can go up every belt as well. We used 4 hunters and our windwalker for every belt, and though they did have some mistakes while learning, they are fracking pro at it now. Most of our wipes before the kill were five issues, and these issues will just take time for you to work out with your comp.

    1. Belt team deaths.
    2. Melee getting clobbered by mines. (Your ranged will be stacked most times, so FORCE your melee to run towards ranged) It keeps them grouped up, easier to cc and control.
    3. One bad saw or fire dropped on the raid during a magnet will wipe the best attempts.
    4. Tanks failing to kill the Shredder before Overload 4. This is something your tanks will just have to work out. There are multiple tank swap rotations that work, and finding the one that works best for your tanks may take some time. (If you have a good prot warrior, they make this WAY easier). We had prot war/BM monk on our first kill with prot war taking all but one shredder. Second kill was BM monk/Prot Pally with us taking 2/5 respectively. We opted for the monk on boss as monk aoe on mines is frickin unreal.
    5. Tank deaths. Do not neglect external tank cd's on your tanks for Electrostatic Charge. We had many many a tank death to mistakes here, and a tank with 6 stacks dying, is often a wipe. Even if you can rez him quickly, he just lost all those stacks and depending on how many stacks your other tank has may be unable to kill the shredder.

    Gl man, honestly this boss is amazing. Frustrating as all hell but I cannot tell you how good it feels when you finally down it.
    Sinthetik, Blood DK, GM, Exiled From Hell, US Premiere Daytime 25 man. 14/14 heroic. US #117

  12. #12
    Would you guys give me some feedback on this kill order?


    Build to space out lasers. Separate Empowered missile and Reg Mines. Usually Reg laser and Empowered missiles.

    1 Kill Mines. Reg Laser. Empower Missile

    2 Kill Laser. Reg Missile. Empowered Mines.

    3 Kill Missile. Reg Laser. Empowered Magnet

    4 Kill Laser. Reg Missile. Empowered Mines

    5 Kill Missile. Reg Mines. Empowered Magnet

    6 Kill Laser. Reg mines and empowered mines.

    7 Kill Mines. Reg Laser. Empowered Missile

    8 Kill Missile. Reg mines. Empowered Magnet.

    9 Kill Laser. Reg Laser. Empowered Mines.

    10 Kill Laser. Reg Mines. Empowered Missile.

    11 Kill Missile. Reg Missile. Empowered Magnet.

    12 Kill Missile. Reg Magnet. Empowered Mines.
    Or Kill magnet. Reg Missile. Empowered Mines.
    May be more DPS to kill magnet.

    I like the idea of opening with an empowered missile. I think it would get it done while we had more movement space.
    I also think keeping empowered missile and reg mines separate is dangerous, but empowered mines and reg missile is doable.
    I also think back to back lasers would limit our motion too much.
    I tried to do Empowered Magnet with Reg Mines, rather than Missile. Laser also can work.

    These were designed with the use of engineering EMP's in mind, as we have 7 in our core raid. A 3 second stun on a 15 second CD(need to check that) is gamebreaking. We can easily hold multiple mines down.

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  13. #13
    Line 7 and 9 are incorrect you'll get OC lasers. Im not sure where you got this rotation from but there may be other errors.

    I'm not sure why you think OC missile is dangerous in any fashion. They have almost no health and give you plenty if time to kill him and if it's overcharged the worst thing you can get is normal mines.

    There are two very common strategies found in another siege crafter thread. Just search for it, I'm on my phone right now. If you're opting to go mines I would suggest using that one since OC mines will then line up with the shredder tank.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NesQuek View Post
    Line 7 and 9 are incorrect you'll get OC lasers. Im not sure where you got this rotation from but there may be other errors.

    I'm not sure why you think OC missile is dangerous in any fashion. They have almost no health and give you plenty if time to kill him and if it's overcharged the worst thing you can get is normal mines.

    There are two very common strategies found in another siege crafter thread. Just search for it, I'm on my phone right now. If you're opting to go mines I would suggest using that one since OC mines will then line up with the shredder tank.
    Why would I get OC lasers? I was under the impression it was Magnet>Mines>Missile>Laser and he doesn't overcharge twice in a row.

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  15. #15
    Is engi that much op on mines? I usually use slow trap + glave toss

  16. #16
    I know that we avoid missiles like the plague cause they are horrid to deal with. Mines are much easier to deal with on a whole as far as I've seen. That much movement to get them killed causes a lot of odd placed fires and saws.
    Narye/Sofex - Zul'jin US PvE - 4/17M T17- 9 hr/wk - Exiled Legion

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by BecauseItsRED View Post
    Is engi that much op on mines? I usually use slow trap + glave toss
    We have a slow, our DK uses chillblains. The stuns are easy

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