1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Paragons of the Klaxxi Heroic - Tanking Tips!

    Unfortunately, due to comp restrictions this month and an incoming Christmas break for the whole raid team, we will have insufficient players to work on a 7 DPS Siegecrafter Heroic kill (working on the final mines wave !).

    We also only have a 3 heal option for Paragons, but at the very least it seems more doable than Siegecrafter after a few 9-man pulls last week getting us on to Rikkal in a couple of pulls.

    Comp:
    Prot Paladin
    Prot Warrior
    Fury Warrior
    Frost DK
    Warlock
    Hunter
    Hunter
    Mistweaver Monk
    Resto Druid
    Disc Priest

    I was wondering if you could give us any tips?

    This is the kill order I'm currently suggesting for our first proper attempts on Sunday:
    Skeer > Rikkal > Kor'ven > Hisek > Xaril > Kaz'tik > Ka'roz > Kilruk > Iyyokuk

    On the pull, we are planning on using Heroism and burning Skeer down before the 2nd wave of bloods reach him, with Prot Paladin picking up Rikkal but then tank swapping after injection and popping Holy Avenger with Heroism to burn down Skeer ASAP.
    Bring Hisek to 50% just before Korven, to Amber encase Hisek and nuke Korven down with 2nd pot after that.
    Our Prot Warrior will be tanking Ka'roz later in the fight, rather than me on my Prot Pala.
    HoPing/DSing the Xaril debuff to remove stacks before Wind Reaver.

    ... other than that, we are just working with standard tips from Fatboss and other threads we've found on MMO.


    I'd appreciate any tanking specific tips from you guys, as well as wider Paladin specific or general raid tips to help us push for a kill with the said comp in the couple of weeks before Christmas! We are currently at an ilvl well above 570, so fairly overgeared for progression and are hoping that the gear will help make the difference on Paragons 10HC. We've been plagued by attendance issues and failing trials over the last few weeks, which has already cost us a Siegecrafter Heroic kill

    We also have a Boomkin and Ele Shaman available to us in some of the raids before Xmas, but not this Sunday and not consistently.

    Cheers,
    Zab

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'd also like to know about trinket choice for the fight, I still haven't hit haste cap yet.

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/alonsus/Zabuzan/simple
    I'm using Thok TT 2/2 NM and Spark 2/2 HC for the highest haste at the moment. I also have the Malkorok and Protectors Heroic Stamina trinkets, both 2/2... and the Curse of Hubris NM 0/2 + Juggernaut NM 2/2 just for lols, but never use them.

    Planned glyphs for the fight:
    Major - Focused Shield, Final Wrath, Word of Glory (Alabaster Shield worthwhile over any of those? I assume not...)
    Minor - Holy Wrath

    My T5 talent would be Holy Avenger as standard for the burst and use as an extra CD vs physical + self heal.... but for flatter damage mit obviously the DP option is there, thoughts on that?

    My T6 talent would be Execution Sentence for the extra single target DPS. Holy Prism an option if healers are struggling with burst damage on the raid, but shouldn't be needed with 3 healers whereas the extra DPS would be useful.
    Zabuzan: GM, RL and MT of <Origin> Frostmane-EU // 14/14HC 10-man // 14/14HC 25-man
    Check out my Siege of Orgrimmar Heroic raid guides over Vengeance King and follow me on Twitter & Facebook for new guide updates!
    Mythic Team Recruitment / Guild Website / VK Website / VK Facebook / VK Twitter

  2. #2
    What we did with 2 healing is :
    Skeer > Rikkal > Kor'ven > Hisek > Xaril > Iyyokuk > Kaz'tik > Kilruk > Ka'roz
    Our tanking comp is the same and we had :
    Boss 1 :
    Paladin - Skeer
    Warrior - Rikkal
    Boss 2 :
    Paladin - Ka'roz
    Warrior - Rikkal
    Boss 3 :
    Paladin picks up Kor'ven
    Warrior holds ka'roz entire time
    Boss 4:
    Paladin - Iyyokuk
    Warrior - Ka'roz
    Boss 5:
    Paladin - Xaril
    Warrior - Ka'roz
    Iyyokuk can be on either one.
    Boss 6:
    Paladin - Iyyokuk
    Warrior - Ka'roz
    (Kaz'tik can be on anyone)
    Boss 7 :
    Paladin - Kilruk (you're bopping off stacks before he comes down)
    Warrior - Ka'roz
    Boss 8/9 - GGWP.

    If you're going to 3 heal then have a warrior tank pick up the scorpion buff and use it on cd.
    The damage intake is still extremely bursty so i would still suggest prism over ES
    Also with 3 heals personally i would go for 7.5hit/exp > haste > crit > 15exp > mastery build. (I have no proof, but i feel like it would net a higher dps than 7.5 hit/exp > haste > 15exp > crit > mastery)

  3. #3
    While I don't have any paladin-specific tips, I am a little curious as to why you opt to kill Iyyokuk last. Obviously I'm sure it is related to your 3 healing strategy but Ka'roz and Kil'ruk are very easy to deal with at the end whereas even though the firey edges don't hit terribly hard they can definitely gib someone if they're out of position due to amber or anything like that. Also with 3 healers all with the capability to DPS I don't know if you actually need to hero for Skeer, but that would mainly depend on how solid your dps are.

    With regards to Korven it is definitely not worth it to use a 2nd pot on his burn simply because any tank with the Rikkal buff up and some vengeance will easily handle the burn with barely any work from the DPS at all. It is worth noting though that this tank pulls an absurd amount of threat so you can either put externals on him or use Salv and BoP to keep the threat off him (you can use the scorpion's full abilities while under the effects of BoP). We also chose to use Ka'roz as the amber-bait instead of Hisek because Rapid Fire was the cause of a fair amount of deaths and you have a good amount of time to setup the burn so Ka'roz going off to throw amber didn't really matter.

    Xaril imo is potentially the most annoying part of the fight so if you can avoid using heroism on Skeer and pots on Korven I would recommend using them both here. You will also have another scorpion buff from the tank, although the vengeance levels aren't as high as the Korven burn. The green catalyst will the most annoying with two melee dps because of how they tend to hang around Kaz'tik all day.

    The order I would suggest is Skeer-->Rikkal-->Korven-->Hisek-->Xaril-->Kaz'tik-->Iyyokuk-->the last 2. If you have both tanks up for the last two then you might as well kill Kil'ruk before Ka'roz to eliminate any potential Death From Above fails, however if you are down to one tank then I would recommend killing Ka'roz first since he is the only source of tank damage.

    Finally make sure you use the encounter buffs! The scorpion one is the biggest gain, but timing the Hisek buff with heroism or other CDs will provide a sizeable increase as well. Korven's amber can be used to stop a Mesmerized person from moving giving you more than enough time to kill the kunchong. Skeer's buff is probably not quite as useful with 3 healers but the orbs it gives are quite potent in an emergency.

    Good luck with the fight!!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanden View Post
    While I don't have any paladin-specific tips, I am a little curious as to why you opt to kill Iyyokuk last. Obviously I'm sure it is related to your 3 healing strategy but Ka'roz and Kil'ruk are very easy to deal with at the end whereas even though the firey edges don't hit terribly hard they can definitely gib someone if they're out of position due to amber or anything like that.
    I am fairly interested why you wouldnt kill iyyokuk last? With 3 bosses left you are likely to have iyyokuk, karoz and kilruk up at the same time. That means you have to deal with fiery edges and bombs at the same time anyway. Fiery edges really does nothing, and when it is only 1-2 bosses left, all healers can go full dps mode saving a ton of dps time on the boss, all dps can stand still, you never have to move, all tanks can stand still etc. The amount of time you save on the enrage by killing Iyyokuk last is really signifcant. His enrage is also a kitten.

    Most importantly, Ka'roz got the potential to actually kill your raid when he is alone left or when there is two bosses left. Iyyokuk doesnt. Killing Iyyokuk last makes the last stage of the encounter so easy and you dont have to deal with Ka'roz on full stereoids.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-12-12 at 06:14 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I am fairly interested why you wouldnt kill iyyokuk last? With 3 bosses left you are likely to have iyyokuk, karoz and kilruk up at the same time. That means you have to deal with fiery edges and bombs at the same time anyway. Fiery edges really does nothing, and when it is only 1-2 bosses left, all healers can go full dps mode saving a ton of dps time on the boss, all dps can stand still, you never have to move, all tanks can stand still etc. The amount of time you save on the enrage by killing Iyyokuk last is really signifcant. His enrage is also a kitten.

    Most importantly, Ka'roz got the potential to actually kill your raid when he is alone left or when there is two bosses left. Iyyokuk doesnt. Killing Iyyokuk last makes the last stage of the encounter so easy and you dont have to deal with Ka'roz on full stereoids.
    Imo it's a question of 2 vs 3 heals.
    Iyyokuk is a decent amount of damage even if you play perfectly, at the same time you can avoid ~all Ka'roz damage.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Imo it's a question of 2 vs 3 heals.
    Iyyokuk is a decent amount of damage even if you play perfectly, at the same time you can avoid ~all Ka'roz damage.
    Imo not. We were two healing it aswell and was 0 issue. The only thing with iyyokuk is that he brings people low so other bosses can kill them. So he can be quite annoying during boss 5-6-7, but as soon as you get to the end of the fight he becomes a toddler as his damage alone is not high enough to actually kill anyone.

    The thing is that in 90% of tactics you are left with Karoz, Kilruk and Iyyokuk. The two common options are to go Karoz->Kil->Iyy or Iyy->Karoz-Kil.
    You will have to deal with the Ka'roz, Kil and Iyy combo either way. The only difference is if you want to have Kil+Kar -> Kil or Iyy+Kil -> Iyy for the last 2 bosses.
    Which in my opinion is a no brainer as iyy+kil is far less lethal than Kil+kar and iyyokuk alone is far less lethal than Karoz alone, and Iyyokuk last probably saves you a good 10-20 seconds on the enrage aswell.

    In my opinion this kind of reminds me of the "good" old days of ToC10HC where everyone would always kill both healers in the pull instead of killing healer->dps which was far easier. People start using kill orders without really thinking about the difference in them.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Imo not. We were two healing it aswell and was 0 issue. The only thing with iyyokuk is that he brings people low so other bosses can kill them. So he can be quite annoying during boss 5-6-7, but as soon as you get to the end of the fight he becomes a toddler as his damage alone is not high enough to actually kill anyone.

    The thing is that in 90% of tactics you are left with Karoz, Kilruk and Iyyokuk. The two common options are to go Karoz->Kil->Iyy or Iyy->Karoz-Kil.
    You will have to deal with the Ka'roz, Kil and Iyy combo either way. The only difference is if you want to have Kil+Kar -> Kil or Iyy+Kil -> Iyy for the last 2 bosses.
    Which in my opinion is a no brainer as iyy+kil is far less lethal than Kil+kar and iyyokuk alone is far less lethal than Karoz alone, and Iyyokuk last probably saves you a good 10-20 seconds on the enrage aswell.

    In my opinion this kind of reminds me of the "good" old days of ToC10HC where everyone would always kill both healers in the pull instead of killing healer->dps which was far easier. People start using kill orders without really thinking about the difference in them.
    Hmm mb, i know that in our raid we'd always need to pop raid cds for fiery lines (plus for us he would die as 4th from the end, so we'd get Manipulator, Karoz, Kilruk).

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

    Regarding the kill order, we would be doing the same irrespective of 2 or 3 healing.

    I just can't see why you wouldn't leave Iyyokuk last, because Ka'roz is so dangerous by that point in the fight from a tank survivability perspective and Whirling is pretty much lethal towards the end of the fight if people aren't positioned bang on. Seems like Iyyokuk leaves more room for error and thus faster progression, even more so with 3 healers and thus more raid healing cooldowns / blanketing. My line of thought on a general level, fits in exactly with Firefly's thoughts (which I'm glad about, as I'm not the one with the experience here :P)

    Will go over it again in a bit more detail over the weekend and get back with any further questions or responses
    Zabuzan: GM, RL and MT of <Origin> Frostmane-EU // 14/14HC 10-man // 14/14HC 25-man
    Check out my Siege of Orgrimmar Heroic raid guides over Vengeance King and follow me on Twitter & Facebook for new guide updates!
    Mythic Team Recruitment / Guild Website / VK Website / VK Facebook / VK Twitter

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

    Regarding the kill order, we would be doing the same irrespective of 2 or 3 healing.

    I just can't see why you wouldn't leave Iyyokuk last, because Ka'roz is so dangerous by that point in the fight from a tank survivability perspective and Whirling is pretty much lethal towards the end of the fight if people aren't positioned bang on. Seems like Iyyokuk leaves more room for error and thus faster progression, even more so with 3 healers and thus more raid healing cooldowns / blanketing. My line of thought on a general level, fits in exactly with Firefly's thoughts (which I'm glad about, as I'm not the one with the experience here :P)

    Will go over it again in a bit more detail over the weekend and get back with any further questions or responses
    Whirling is braindead easy to never get hit by. Take 2 steps to the side and done. My raid kills Iyy > Ka'roz > Kil'ruk, but we're 2 healing and usually running low on healer cds and mana by that point. Ka'roz does literally no unavoidable damage to anyone except the tanks, while firelines hurt with only 2 healers by the end of the fight. Our tanks (monk/druid) also don't have that much trouble with the damage on them from Ka'roz himself. It's only dangerous when combined with having several firelines on the tank as well, or having the dot from Korven up, or if he gets on the tank using scorpion who can't put up cds or AM.

    Also, it's pretty irrelevant whether Ka'roz or Kilruk or Iyyokuk is the most dangerous alone, since none of them are at all dangerous alone. Ka'roz and Kil'ruk are (almost, Kil'ruk does some raid damage during Reave) only tank damage. Iyyokuk is almost all raid damage. Take your pick.

    The enrage is also totally irrelevant at this point in time with the amount of gear we have now, plus I don't see how Kar > Kil > Iyy is significantly better for the enrage than Iyy > Kar > Kil. You still have to deal with Kar and Kil moving around or Reaving while you're trying to kill them either way. Dodging one more set of puddles isn't exactly a huge dps loss.

    As far as your gearing/talent/glyph choices for the fight go, I would heavily recommend Divine Protection glyph instead of triple DPS glyphs. How you can be worried about tank damage from a physical damage boss and not be taking it I don't know. Similarly, if tank damage is an issue you should be wearing your Malk trinket with Thok trinket, not Spark. Ignore the person saying to go for crit over 15% exp for more dps.

    Make sure your hunters know to Feign Death aims for 0 damage. It breaks them now just like Siegecrafter sawblades. Same thing for your disc with Spectral Guise or whatever the priest invis talent is.
    Last edited by Balhale; 2013-12-14 at 10:52 PM.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    As far as your gearing/talent/glyph choices for the fight go, I would heavily recommend Divine Protection glyph instead of triple DPS glyphs. How you can be worried about tank damage from a physical damage boss and not be taking it I don't know.
    Point taken lol, was an obvious one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    Make sure your hunters know to Feign Death aims for 0 damage..
    Forwarded them the info!

    We've since lost our Prot Warrior to follow his love interest to another realm and our Warlock due to stress reasons... so not even managed to get Siegecrafter down yet /sigh. Had a couple of hours on Klaxxi in total now and only getting to Korven anyway, most of the time the raid were getting pummeled due to poor control of the parasites -_-

    Looking forward to getting on to it at some point in the hopefully near future.

    Thanks for the input.
    Zabuzan: GM, RL and MT of <Origin> Frostmane-EU // 14/14HC 10-man // 14/14HC 25-man
    Check out my Siege of Orgrimmar Heroic raid guides over Vengeance King and follow me on Twitter & Facebook for new guide updates!
    Mythic Team Recruitment / Guild Website / VK Website / VK Facebook / VK Twitter

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