WoD snapshotting

[Deleted]

I spotted this info from Celestalon which I found quite interesting:

Yeah. Eclipse and Tiger's Fury will be snapshotted. Things like int procs will not be. Extension by X sec, not X ticks.

My understanding for WoD was:
- Any dot tick damage is calculated at the time of the tick - ie if you have a proc or buff when a dot ticks then it benefits from it.
- Haste updates on each tick based upon current haste values (affecting the amount of time until the next tick).

Based upon those bonus druid buffs being snapshotted I'm interested to see if there will be a precedent for individual class buffs being snapshotted (for example, demo metamorphosis). Where will the line be drawn?

[Santoisms]

I spotted this info from Celestalon which I found quite interesting:



My understanding for WoD was:
- Any dot tick damage is calculated at the time of the tick - ie if you have a proc or buff when a dot ticks then it benefits from it.
- Haste updates on each tick based upon current haste values (affecting the amount of time until the next tick).

Based upon those bonus druid buffs being snapshotted I'm interested to see if there will be a precedent for individual class buffs being snapshotted (for example, demo metamorphosis). Where will the line be drawn?

I'm really bummed that they are getting rid of snapshotting because the crappy Warlocks either cannot do it optimally or it could be a balancing issue in future patches. I personally would like to see a Soul Swap change or removal as long as we got snapshotting back. I just feel like without snapshotting and significant buffs to our dots / spec design the class will suffer nextx expansion.

With that being said, if they make some if not all of our dots snapshottable, it just becomes messy with people asking: "Why do Warlocks get it and Warriors don't?"

[Gohzerlock]

Really hate that they're removing snapshotting, hope they do something to have some kind of skill cap. At least there will still be direct damage snapshotting, making destro more complex than affliction *snore*.

[NuLogic]

I'm guessing it was too hard to balance with certain powerful procs.

[Zharradan]

this is a good decision honestly, easier to balance around, so it prevents us from being underpowered or overpowered because of a trinket or another ridiculous item.

[Teva]

Think the thing I hate the most is how boring affliction will be, I like tracking proc's it's makes it a fun play style and just keeping dots up will send me to sleep

[Klavarnae]

this is a good decision honestly, easier to balance around, so it prevents us from being underpowered or overpowered because of a trinket or another ridiculous item.

I'd have to agree. A lot of people just look at this being the only change incoming to us or the only one that matters. They wont just remove snapshotting and leave it at that, we would be crippled. Locks just are gonna have to get used to not being top damage on every fight (because this matters???). Although I will miss 100% crit dooms...

[ComputerNerd]

The problem with snapshotting is how addons can trivialise it.
The likes of Affdots remove entirely any "skill" you may want to describe it as.
It was a feature that the default UI simply was not good enough for, and addons allow you to do too well.

[Dnusha]

Can't wait to play affliction or unholy dk without dot snapshoting! It will be so much fun!

JK, No. More dumbing down blizzard, thats the way to go.

[Vereesa]

The problem with snapshotting is how addons can trivialise it.
The likes of Affdots remove entirely any "skill" you may want to describe it as.
It was a feature that the default UI simply was not good enough for, and addons allow you to do too well.

This here is the primary reason for the change. Trinkets are also in part why they're getting rid of snapshotting.

[Werst]

I think snapshotting for dots does have to go in the name of balancing warlocks in more than just one scenario. Consider 3x examples....a) is joe LFR who plays competently but doesn't micromanage every proc/detail, b) is a top 20 raider who has everything mapped/bound/weakaura'd/etc, and c) is a pvp'er. Joe_LFR might be balanced but probably is at or near the bottom since he isn't taking full advantage of the procs. Our pro raider has a 30% lust, troll racial, herbalism, 30% meta gem, a 15K int proc and a 30K int proc...SB:SS etc. Our pvp'er is trying to roll dots on a couple targets while coordinating CC and has a 522 ilvl vs 575...most of the time haunt isn't even up. That is just WAY too massive a delta to balance the spec or class around. Many things may change for WoD but variance of that magnitude will still exist and snapshotting means locks can't be balanced over the game's many circumstances. Aff flirts with OP constantly in pve based on snapshotting yet is a feather butt tickle in pvp on the same tuning.

I would rather they get rid of snapshotting, make interesting mechanics/trinkets/set bonuses, and let people play the class not ride addons. With all the complexities available to the devs if they can't make the class engaging to play without snapshotting then its an issue with their quality of work or timetable to production being insufficient.

Honestly I'm more concerned for dots getting the benefit of procs that happen after they are already applied...not sure blizz has ever actually done it that way before for warlocks so that's going to be more of an experiment than taking away snapshotting TBH. Sure its more server traffic but still far less than other classes that do range calcs.

[Deleted]

I wasn't attempting to start a discussion on the removal of snapshotting in general, but more on the fact that seemingly some of the druid abilities Celestalon listed ARE going to benefit feral/boomkin dots through snapshotting damage.

Are we going to end up with a variety of class abilities being snapshotted but trinket/enchant procs not?
Will this carry over to metamorphosis +damage modifier (widely used currently for HoG shadowflame weaving)?
Surely this could then be even more confusing down the line for newer players?

[Werst]

Right now I'm not sure blizz has a firm grasp on what it wants snapshot and what it doesn't. It might know some things that are definite on either end of the spectrum but I'd wager 70-80% of the middle is still quite gray. Hopefully it gets a bit more uniform but that's what 6+ months of beta/development will yield, at least in theory. From the sound of it if you will be able to extend a dot somewhat but not the power of it.

Its a new expansion so its going to be confusion to all players...perhaps moreso to some of us old goats who have been playing the class the better part of a decade. Demo's damage modifier from meta form is always going to be wonky to work around, especially with the level 100 talents as listed, but crit/uber dooms or super affdots are going away. It sounds more like they are allowing some dot extension similar to unholy not "hey look I've got 3 haste modifiers and 2 batspit trinket procs" to roll.

[JV Chequer]

The problem with snapshotting is how addons can trivialise it.
The likes of Affdots remove entirely any "skill" you may want to describe it as.
It was a feature that the default UI simply was not good enough for, and addons allow you to do too well.

Exactly.

Snapshotting it's pointless since affdots do 90% of the whole work

[Deleted]

well dotsnapshotting will only take you so far, shard management is just as important.

im also worried how they will implement it, bcoz i can see some areas like multidotting when you spread your dots around, will the dots benefit equally from buffs or will it only be your main target. i think they will have some problems to implement dynamically updated dots in WoD and i hope afflic doesnt get screwed over, im fairly sure we'll see some buffs.

persoanlly, i dont think it will change much at all when it comes to things like meta, coz all they will need to do is incorporate the changes in the spells, as they are all called different names, which will prolly make it a bit easier.

[Zinnin]

When I was first told that they were planning on removing how DoT snapshotting worked I was a little bummed out, but overall I think it is a good change. First off as of MoP it isn't like DoTs are the only thing we have that enables us to react to large cooldowns and procs, with how our resource system has been implemented being able to gain DPS by properly tracking cooldowns isn't going to go away.

Secondly, it isn't even like managing DoTs around procs is going to disappear totally. With Pandemic you are going to be rewarded for properly timing DoT refreshes when you do not have procs, which is just opposite of what we have now. If you don't have a proc up you'll want to refresh as soon as it goes into Pandemic range, if you have a proc you'll want to make sure to be spending that time using secondary resources and casting nukes. This really isn't that far different then playing with Affdots now, it just rewards players for making good decisions, instead of punishing players that don't have the affdots addon.

In the long run, it is also just way healthier for the game. For example right now for Demo the opening Doom is so important, that if it is a fight that I don't get to lust and reap the benefits of a strong opener, I just don't play the spec, with DoT snapshotting removed they won't have to balance around the fact that Dots are literally 500%+ stronger on the pull, which will make damage far more consistent on encounters that don't fit each spec perfectly.

While I might miss the crazy strong Doom crits at the start of an encounter, I more then welcome the opener being toned down in favor of not having to cry when a fight starts creeping past the 5 minute mark.