1. #1

    H Seigecrafter 10 Tips (tanks)

    We are starting our progression on seigecrafter tonight using the Fatboss strategy. I'am a little confused on the stacks. if im right
    Tank 1=3
    Tank 2=2
    Tank 1=2 (making it 5 stacks)
    Tank 2=1 (making it 3 stacks)
    Tank 1=1 (making it 6 stacks)
    Tank 2=4 (making it 7 stacks allowing first tank to reset stacks)
    rinse and repeat can u guys correct me if im wrong or give me some tips

  2. #2
    That stack order sounds right... I'd represent it more simply like this: 3-2-5-3-6-7. I don't know for sure, though.

    As far as tips, if you have a Prot Pally, put him in the tank 1 position and have him take ES. Line up ES so the final tick happens during the Death from Above debuff and the add will melt.

  3. #3
    kk ty we tank prot pally prot warrior. im the warrior and ussally take the first one due to DR hitting for obscene amounts with SS

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Blisko View Post
    kk ty we tank prot pally prot warrior. im the warrior and ussally take the first one due to DR hitting for obscene amounts with SS
    Our warrior had some problems killing the add on time occasionally. Our pally gets it down on time 99% of the time. I'd say our warrior is a better tank than our pally too.

    It's just something to consider. A warrior can definitely do it just fine.

  5. #5
    The way we do it is: 3, 2, 5, 4, 6, 7

    So second tank go to 4 instead of 3( this is to spread the cd needed abit more).

    If your pally is the second tank I suggest he uses this cd order
    1: nothing
    2: Divine prot
    3: Divine prot
    4: Guardian
    5: Divine prot
    6: Ardent defender
    7: Bubbel(just cast it as the boss starts casting the debuff, there is no need to taunt that way and the pally will take 0 dmg)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also note that after the first tank have reset his stack he should go to 4 stacks not 3, will be much easier to kill the add that way..
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  6. #6
    The stack rotation we used was

    Tank 1 - 3 - Kill add
    Tank 2 - 2
    Tank 1 - 4 - Takes 1 stack, kill add
    Tank 2 - 5 - Takes 3 stacks, kill add
    Both tanks reset at this point, rinse and repeat. For the second rotation Tank 1 will have 1 higher stack (i.e. 4 when he kills the first add and 5 for the second)

    This meant

    Add 1 - Tank 1 3 stacks
    Add 2 - Tank 1 4 stacks
    Add 3 - Tank 2 5 stacks
    Add 4 - Tank 1 4 stacks
    Add 5 - Tank 1 5 stacks
    Add 6 - Tank 2 5 stacks


    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Our warrior had some problems killing the add on time occasionally. Our pally gets it down on time 99% of the time. I'd say our warrior is a better tank than our pally too.

    It's just something to consider. A warrior can definitely do it just fine.
    A warrior kills an add 10x more reliable than a prot paladin. A paladin is much worse and much more RNG at killing adds, however the paladin requires less healing from healers which is also something to consider. As a paladin I did not require a single direct heal for the entire duration of the siegecrafter fight and while tanking the add I could outrange both healers, stand in fire and get a few stacks and still be fine. That is the strong side of paladins on siegecrafter.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2014-01-16 at 09:17 AM.
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  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    We are STILL progressing on it, and have just changed to Blood DK + Paladin (me) because our Prot Warrior left. We changed the stacks around as a result, as the DK is just playing his OS and damage output isn't that high.

    Paladin - 3 stacks - kill add with HA + Wings + ES explosion during DFA
    DK - 2 stacks
    Paladin - 4 stacks - kill add
    DK - 6 stacks - kill add
    Repeat

    So: 3ADD,2,4ADD,6ADD,3ADD,2,4ADD
    Seems to work pretty well and can get all the shredders down before Overload 4 most of the time (sometimes end up having to ask the DPS to switch and help out if something has gone to crap).

    With our old Prot Warrior, we were doing:

    Warrior - 3 stacks - KILL ADD
    Paladin - 2 stacks
    Warrior - 4 stacks - KILL ADD
    Paladin - 4 stacks
    Warrior - 5 stacks - KILL ADD
    Paladin - 7 stacks - KILL ADD
    Warrior - 3 stacks

    Which worked far better because of the ridiculous number of CDs a paladin has and made the shredders a joke... but is unnecessary to actually get them down before the 4th OL. 7 Stacks will allow a Paladin to burn a shredder down well before DFA.
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  8. #8
    We finally managed a kill of this last night (10 man) using the following stacks:

    Prot pally - 3rd stack - kill first shredder
    BrM Monk - 2 stacks
    Prot pally - 4th stack - kill second shredder
    BrM Monk - 6th stack - kill third shredder
    Prot pally - 2 stacks
    BrM monk - 7th stack - kill fourth shredder
    Prot pally - 4 stacks - kill fifth shredder
    BrM Monk - 4 stacks - hold add while boss dies

    As the BrM Monk i found it rather easy to take the stacks via glyphed guard running a crit build. Stacks 1 - 3 ignore, stack 4 guard, stack 5 fort brew, stack 6 zen med, stack 7 diffuse magic.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    A warrior kills an add 10x more reliable than a prot paladin. A paladin is much worse and much more RNG at killing adds, however the paladin requires less healing from healers which is also something to consider. As a paladin I did not require a single direct heal for the entire duration of the siegecrafter fight and while tanking the add I could outrange both healers, stand in fire and get a few stacks and still be fine. That is the strong side of paladins on siegecrafter.
    I call bullshit on that one, he melee's pretty hard and even tho you only take 5 stacks, they're still noticeable.
    And a warrior doesn't need heals while tanking add outside, doubt any tank do tbh.

  10. #10
    I would heavily suggest doing a different strat for the stacks - going up to 7 is just unnecessary.
    I bet there are many other videos like this one but just posting for the proof's sake
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE4L7IYXCAg

    And there is the stack order:
    Warr 1-2-3
    *ADD1 SPAWN*
    Paladin 1-2
    *ADD1 DIES FAR AWAY FROM THE BOSS*
    Warr 4
    *ADD2 SPAWN*
    Paladin 3-4
    *ADD2 DIES @ MELEE*
    Paladin 5
    Warr 1
    *ADD3 SPAWN*
    Warr 2-3
    *ADD3 DIES @ MELEE*
    Warr 4
    *ADD4 SPAWN*
    Paladin 1-2
    Warr 5
    *ADD4 DIES @ MELEE WITH LITTLE HELP FROM THE RAID DURING DFA*
    Paladin 3-4
    *ADD5 SPAWN*
    Paladin 5
    Warr 1-2
    *ADD5 DIES @ MELEE*
    Warr 3
    *ADD6 SPAWN//IGNORED*
    Warr 4
    Paladin 1-2

    I had to do this research myself when learning the boss and I noticed that going up to 7, while indeed still easy with the right CD management it felt like something unnecessary and risky. So I just follow what I said in this post instead.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    I call bullshit on that one, he melee's pretty hard and even tho you only take 5 stacks, they're still noticeable.
    And a warrior doesn't need heals while tanking add outside, doubt any tank do tbh.
    If you are using EF and CDs properly, totally doable. Bear in mind that there may be times when you don't have 3 stacks of bastion for a free EF but do need a heal, but Firefly isn't a 4set fan and didn't even have it when he killed the boss so it's not like that was a considering for him anyway.

    Also, a direct heal excludes indirect (aka smart/aoe) heals. If you've got a Disc Priest spamming the crap out of the boss, plenty of tank heals to go round.

    Most tanks will require heals when tanking the shredder, especially after a couple of overloads as the shredder starts to hit pretty hard, though if stood close enough to the boss they could obviously be getting smart heals from that as well. Paladins need zero external healing of any kind when on the shredder, unless they are getting ridiculous stacks of superheated or standing in a chain of missiles/DFA.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    I call bullshit on that one, he melee's pretty hard and even tho you only take 5 stacks, they're still noticeable.
    And a warrior doesn't need heals while tanking add outside, doubt any tank do tbh.
    What is so unbelievable about that? That is how paladins work, I did not need any direct heal on Garrosh H eithe and for the most time on any encounter. To be honest, I think the only boss that I ever recieved direct heals on was Iron Jugg, Dark Shams and Paragons. And the first two was only until I got some gear.

    The 5 stacks are not noticeable at all since every stack is followed by a 5 point EF healing me up to 100% health instantly.

    Also, both me and our warrior was in 540-550ish item level at the time of siegecrafter. Maybe warriors can kill the add without heals at higher item levels, but he definately needed heals at the item level he was. He also went full crit gems to kill add more reliable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    If you are using EF and CDs properly, totally doable. Bear in mind that there may be times when you don't have 3 stacks of bastion for a free EF but do need a heal, but Firefly isn't a 4set fan and didn't even have it when he killed the boss so it's not like that was a considering for him anyway.
    I didnt even get 2 set until the second kill 2 set would have been amazing on Siegecrafter progression.

    In any way, the only time you need a heal on siegecrafter is if you stood in shit, and even standing in fire and rockets you can still get by with no direct heals.
    My EF was not even on 100% uptime on Siegecrafter as I utilized the direct heal from it to heal me up to full life after magnetic shock 2,3,4 and 5.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2014-01-21 at 09:03 PM.
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  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Siegecrafter nerfs /cheer!

    Hopefully now we can finally kill this boss, despite losing our best DPS and Prot Warrior. Progression with a cobbled together team on a quiet server with minimal recruitment options hasn't been fun.... please let me kill this boss soon and get on to Paragons :P

    Can't believe you didn't even have 2 set... DivProt for the higher stacks of Electrostatic Charge gives a massive HoT.

    Regarding the indirect heals thing - what was your healer comp Firefly? Obviously, if in a raid comp you don't have smart heals coming from somewhere (atonement healing being particularly OP for supporting a tank), then direct heals will probably be required.

    That said, I run Siegecrafter in 572 gear (Spark 543 and Thok's TT 561 trinket for 50% haste and then pushing myself up to 12% crit with 4set and tank cloak)... our highest success to date has been 2 tank 7 dps 1 heal with a Resto Druid healing and I can safely say that at that ilvl, 90% or more of the healing I need was all self fulfilled and with the 4set allowing me to keep EF up on myself for free with 3stack+bog, I even had time to get some EFs rolling on other raid members when the shit was about to hit the fan if I was at a Vengeance peak for a nice big HoT

    More HoPo than you know what to do with at end game gear levels.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    Regarding the indirect heals thing - what was your healer comp Firefly? Obviously, if in a raid comp you don't have smart heals coming from somewhere (atonement healing being particularly OP for supporting a tank), then direct heals will probably be required.
    We were running disc priest and resto druid the first week but changed to disc priest mistweaver for the remainder of progression as we realised how much we needed the damage from the MW on the later heroics even though he was undergeared (lol I am healer and do 600k dps in the pull lol). I find it hard to believe to be honest that healer dps is not a bigger balancement issue, quite insane how much MWs ad Discs contribute. So the priest obviously smited a lot. I am not 100% familiar exactly with how MWs work, but their statues heal I believe also is a smart heal but could be wrong.

    For me direct heal = any heal that makes the healer break his healing pattern to spend time on the tank, so I do not count Lifebloom or whatever that MW hot is called or ?Prayer of mending?, yeah that bouncy spell that cant be controlled, as those are used rotionally on active tanks, they were not always up and could have done without them. I do not know how much I got of those, since I believe our warrior basically had lifebloom all the time because he needed more attention. But yeah, smites, other smart heals and basic rotational hots, were more than enough to keep alive with a good rotation on CDs and EF. I believe my healing taken on Siegecrafter was 65-85% done by myself dependig on the tries, but most of the healing I recieved was simply from all those passive sources and I could have healed that up myself, a lot of overhealing going around. Logs are no available anymore so cant verify the exact numbers.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    Siegecrafter nerfs /cheer!
    I wouldn't get your hopes too high. Everything that killed people on this fight still kills people. The changes just mean you need less DPS on everything but the boss and less raid healing to cover unavoidable damage.

  16. #16
    What we do is , The tank that does most damage to Shredder starts on boss, (prot paladin, prot warrior , if you have both , then prot warrior) gets 3 stacks, goes to shredder, places it on top of blade and then kills it. Goes back to boss and taunts him, gets 4th stack (by now, the other tank has 2 stacks) and goes to shredder, places it to fire and then goes back to boss. (by now the other tank has 4 stacks, and is about to get the 5th and go to shredder) The tank that just killed the shredder in flames now has reseted his/her stacks. Starts over from begining, gets 3 stacks > goes shredder > comes back and gets 4th, kills it in flames > goes back to boss , taunts after the other tank is at 5 stacks.

    But then again this is our way of doing it, and it is really simple, and not risky at all. I know some guilds let only one of their tanks kill the Shredder with way more stacks (8,9,10) but that is risky because you may not have the optimal setup & cds for the tank to survive that many stacks.

  17. #17
    Currently doing 7/7 on each tank

    Prot Pally: 1-3 --- 4-5 --- 6-7 --- 1-4 --- 5-6 --- 7-8
    Bear tank: --- 1-2 --- 3-4 --- 5-7 --- 1-2 --- 2-4 - 5-7

    As for shredders, I as the pally do 1/2, 3rd shredder is tanked in melee and both tanks blow it up before DFA (I usually pop a str pot + Execution sentence and Holy Avenger+Wings), druid tank tanks the 4th then repeat.

    Boss should be dead before you as the pally (or 1st tank) get to your 2nd set of 5+ stacks, and if not, you can tank cloak proc the 6th, bubble the 7th, and bubble will remove your cloak proc for 8 and you can take it safely.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    I wouldn't get your hopes too high. Everything that killed people on this fight still kills people. The changes just mean you need less DPS on everything but the boss and less raid healing to cover unavoidable damage.
    Doing the belts is quite mindless now after the nerfs. That was a huge contribute to wipes before; the difficulty has definitely gone down exponentially. Either way yes the fight is still difficult, but the finer details have been lost (gear contributes to this too of course). On the bright side at least the people on the belts get to participate in more of the fun parts.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    We would have one shot it yesterday if we had our lock rather than a boomkin doing 150k that hadn't progressed on the fight and died on the majority of the pulls!

    The nerfs make this fight trivial if you were near a kill before and aren't missing 200k DPS and some good AoE from the mines!

    We do 2 consecutive Emp Mines waves after the 5th and 6th belt have ended, were getting there with 10 alive pretty much every pull but with 2 hunters on the belt, only an ele and 2 boomkins on the mines, which didn't work out brilliantly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ... and I say one shot very loosely, I mean one shot on that evening, after nearly 400 wipes doing it pre nerf with a stronger but constantly changing team lol.
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