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  1. #21
    He's getting used to having more weak auras going and the oddities of having no buttons to press occasionally in his rotation, we killed through garrosh on normals tonight and he's improving. He's also a happier bear, and we all need a happy bear.

    Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/b...o5m/details/8/

    If you care to review his progress he only sat on nazgrim, and he DPSd on Thok I believe. Any other pointers/advice you have will be absorbed into the brain trust and implemented tonight for (hopefully) a few heroic kills. Thank you all again.

    EDIT: His tooth & claw weak aura isn't showing, so that will be fixed for the next batch of logs, expect low use there.
    Last edited by hatchetman240; 2014-01-21 at 03:26 PM.

  2. #22
    He shouldn't ever have no buttons to press, any gaps in the rotation can be filled by faerie fire. Thrash should have slightly higher uptime and so should barkskin.

  3. #23
    Keyboard Turner l2tank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baretank View Post
    He shouldn't ever have no buttons to press, any gaps in the rotation can be filled by faerie fire. Thrash should have slightly higher uptime and so should barkskin.
    So obviously, I need to mix in more Thrash, which might fill in some of the gaps I was seeing. But there's definitely half-seconds sometimes where Mangle, Lacerate and FF are all on CD and I'd be clipping Thrash -- talking strictly single-target here. Better to pause a half a second or just mix in a clipping Thrash?

    (This is Saberhagen's pilot, just signed up -- only been playing the bear since late 5.3, main was previously a blood DK)

  4. #24
    ^^ This is the test subject.

  5. #25
    You can actually clip thrash in the last 3 seconds and it extends the duration as well. If it's only small half second breaks every once in a while that's fine too.

  6. #26
    So obviously, I need to mix in more Thrash, which might fill in some of the gaps I was seeing. But there's definitely half-seconds sometimes where Mangle, Lacerate and FF are all on CD and I'd be clipping Thrash -- talking strictly single-target here. Better to pause a half a second or just mix in a clipping Thrash?
    This would only happen after using an FFF or - I think - a DoC proc, and that's fine. Not much you can do there.

    As for Thrash itself, there's no reason to worry about clipping it unless you're snapshotting it with Hubris, or maybe Haromm's. If all else really fails you can use Swipe for that one GCD, although you should never really need to.

  7. #27
    Keyboard Turner l2tank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    This would only happen after using an FFF or - I think - a DoC proc, and that's fine. Not much you can do there.

    As for Thrash itself, there's no reason to worry about clipping it unless you're snapshotting it with Hubris, or maybe Haromm's. If all else really fails you can use Swipe for that one GCD, although you should never really need to.
    Sadly, I've had *terrible* luck with trinkets, so the best pair I have is a normal warforged juggernaut's focusing crystal and a flex ticking ebon detonator. 19 Malkorok kills between normal, flex and lfr, have used tokens for at least half of those, still no vial, and we have a couple of agility dps that got dps-centric trinkets first (though even those have been few and far between). Another week, another chance for something to shake loose...

    In any case, feeling much more comfortable with the bear now, and have moved away from Droodfocus back to WeakAuras, some of which make more sense now after reading up here. Have also spun up a few of my own to help with my tunnel vision...

  8. #28
    Sadly, I've had *terrible* luck with trinkets, so the best pair I have is a normal warforged juggernaut's focusing crystal and a flex ticking ebon detonator.
    Oh god. /shudder

    Which reminds me, I should do a Warcraft Logs "how to get better" post sometime soon.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Baretank View Post
    There seems to be a whole lot of misinformation about vengeance floating around.

    Lets take a couple situations from a boss hit. Tank 1 takes full damage, tank 2 dodges the attack, tank 3 takes 50% from using a cooldown. Every tank gets the exact same amount of vengeance, which is calcualted just before the attack would hit you. Therefore bears are not at a vengeance disadvantage, in fact all tanks are equal in that regard. Although some do scale better...
    I'd like to hear Arielle weigh in on this because that is not my experience. With set bonuses it's possible to hit 100% uptime on SD and there have been occasions when I have done that and my vengeance definitely dropped. I use IceHud to track my vengeance.

    SD still has its place. The main one that comes to mind is an extremely sloppy Paragons kill where it was just me 1 healer and 3 DPS alive (this was 25m). My general strat is to use FR and then for really heavy damage bank some rage and use SD + FR.

  10. #30
    He got assurance of consequences last night, should he use that instead even though it doesn't reduce cooldowns on tanks?

  11. #31
    I'd like to hear Arielle weigh in on this because that is not my experience.
    The only exception to this as far as I am aware is when you have a debuff that causes you to take more damage, and therefore multiply the unmitigated damage of the incoming attack.

    He got assurance of consequences last night, should he use that instead even though it doesn't reduce cooldowns on tanks?
    No. The passive stats from the other two trinkets are better.

  12. #32
    Keyboard Turner l2tank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    No. The passive stats from the other two trinkets are better.
    Yeah, I looked at it after the fact, and saw that the agility proc even on the warforged upgraded normal version is still much smaller than the proc from the flex ticking ebon detonator (which also has passive stats that at least allow me to reforge to some crit). Its still quite fantastic for the fight or two where I go feral, of course. I'll keep hoping for vial and haromm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm flush with timeless coins, so I could pick up the timeless agility trinket, wonder if that's potentially better than juggernaut, despite the kind of lame mastery proc...

  13. #33
    I'm flush with timeless coins, so I could pick up the timeless agility trinket, wonder if that's potentially better than juggernaut, despite the kind of lame mastery proc...
    Nope :| 10char

  14. #34
    High Overlord Pelf's Avatar
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    As I said the first time: avoidance and mitigation do not reduce Vengeance. The amount of damage each attack will cause, before any reduction or mitigation, is known by the game. That value is what is aggregated into the rolling AP value for Vengeance regardless of whether the attack even lands* or lands and is mitigated by a cooldown or armor or both.

    ------------
    * Attacks avoided because of Miss, rather than Dodge or Parry, apparently do not count toward Vengeance. That's not relevant to this discussion, though.
    Shiboomi of <Riot> on US-Sargeras

  15. #35
    Keyboard Turner l2tank's Avatar
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    Well, a trinket dropped off shamans, but it was the wrong damned one, and then Curse of Hubris dropped off of Garrosh, but I have more than enough stam already, and crit-on-use is kind of useless if you're already at the crit softcap. Isn't it?

    On the bright side, this week's Malkorok kill, 97.2% thrash uptime, 94.4% lacerate uptime, used all CDs as many times as was possible (kinda cheesing there, the kill was under 3 min), and the *right* rotation is finally starting to feel like muscle memory. Going to add some audio cues to my weakauras setup to indicate when dots and debuffs are about to drop, to hopefully lead to less time glancing at timer bars. Finally giving the pally a run for his money (actually out-dps'ing him by a fair bit on some fights where I was lagging behind previously).

    Yeah, I'm a happy bear again, flight back to my blood dk averted. Now if I could just get some trinkets -- the pally has thok's tail tip and vial of living corruption, the lucky bastard (I was on vacation the only week vial actually dropped).

  16. #36
    Well, a trinket dropped off shamans, but it was the wrong damned one, and then Curse of Hubris dropped off of Garrosh, but I have more than enough stam already, and crit-on-use is kind of useless if you're already at the crit softcap. Isn't it?
    It's good for DPS. Not so much for rage generation.

    Glad to hear you're doing better!

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