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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    Quick question, why did you post this? Also here is an (apparently) acceptable rebuttal: "no."
    I think different from you, how dare I right? I can see how this will change the game, how dare I right? I better keep my mouth shut right? Don't want the MMO-C mafia after me!

  2. #562
    The people saying it doesn't affect others are beings naive and not giving this any thought at all.

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    The people saying it doesn't affect others are beings naive and not giving this any thought at all.
    Remember we are living in the "It's only about me generation!" They won't see other wise.

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    I think different from you, how dare I right? I can see how this will change the game, how dare I right? I better keep my mouth shut right? Don't want the MMO-C mafia after me!
    It's more the fact that you say: "You are wrong, but I cba telling you why, just go with it." that irks me, you said you could pick apart, then do it for gods sake! Prove your point, and if you say: "Well I got nothing to prove" then why are you even here? To prove you have nothing to prove?

  5. #565
    Lots of good posts here. Whereas the official WoW forum is filled with fanboys/trolls when you try to explain why this is such a horrible idea. This is a paid game advantage.. simple as that. Something blizz swore would never happen. Leveling is a HUGE part of a MMO game and players (especially new) need to experience it. This is pathetic. I didn't realize just how money grubbing Blizz has become.

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    The people saying it doesn't affect others are beings naive and not giving this any thought at all.
    I and others have thought about it and we don't really see why the things you and others have mentioned are in any real way a problem. The only advantages to a boosted 90 are the time saved from having to level 1-90 and being able to access the highest skill in a profession. The gear you start with will get replaced with Timeless Isle stuff (if released during MoP) which may not even be itemized will due to the randomness of those pieces. Then you have to gear up via LFR (and eventually Flex SoO) or running the old nerfed content while still catching up on the Legendary quest chain like any other 90.

    As for the professions no one really cares about the crafted 553 stuff at this point into the patch life; stuff on my server is generally selling at or less than the cost of the mats (excluding the haunting spirits for quicker crafting mats). The same deal will happen with the crafted gear in WoD, especially if Blizzard continues the trend of requiring something like Spirit of Harmony to craft the higher end gear.

    Edit: You'll still most likely have to level whatever primary profession you want from scratch so that's already another 5k-20k gold sink depending on profession.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2014-01-18 at 06:45 AM.

  7. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandaxpress1 View Post
    Lots of good posts here. Whereas the official WoW forum is filled with fanboys/trolls when you try to explain why this is such a horrible idea. This is a paid game advantage.. simple as that. Something blizz swore would never happen. Leveling is a HUGE part of a MMO game and players (especially new) need to experience it. This is pathetic. I didn't realize just how money grubbing Blizz has become.
    Are you serious?

    In 2014, leveling has any significance other than "for fun" in WoW?

    I personally enjoy doing all sorts of different things in game, and I understand how some people enjoy competing at many different things, but no one competes in leveling 1-(less than max level). Some people do it as fast as they can, some people do it ironman, some people do it in white gear, some people do it in BGs, some people do it in 5-mans, some people do it with +300% potions, some people do it with RaF, some people do nothing but quest, some people herb their way to 90.

    In general, the people who get to 90 by a shortcut will have lost out on, let's say, 5-20k gold, depending what they do and whether they don't vendor the nice transmog gear they run into. They will have lost out on 2-3 exalted city reputations too.

    I don't see the gameplay advantage of going instantly to 90.

    I see it as a convenience, but if you can't stand to see the game become more convenient for other people, then the problem is with you.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Are you serious?

    In 2014, leveling has any significance other than "for fun" in WoW?

    I personally enjoy doing all sorts of different things in game, and I understand how some people enjoy competing at many different things, but no one competes in leveling 1-(less than max level). Some people do it as fast as they can, some people do it ironman, some people do it in white gear, some people do it in BGs, some people do it in 5-mans, some people do it with +300% potions, some people do it with RaF, some people do nothing but quest, some people herb their way to 90.

    In general, the people who get to 90 by a shortcut will have lost out on, let's say, 5-20k gold, depending what they do and whether they don't vendor the nice transmog gear they run into. They will have lost out on 2-3 exalted city reputations too.

    I don't see the gameplay advantage of going instantly to 90.

    I see it as a convenience, but if you can't stand to see the game become more convenient for other people, then the problem is with you.
    Leveling isn't "fun", but a lot of things in MMOs are not objectively considered "fun", but the reward is just that, a reward. And MMOs are in essence very much revolving around rewards, which seems like a weird thing for an entertainment platform.
    As long as the MMO idea is time = reward anything that can be considered a "convenience" implies time saved, which means you are rewarded, because it would have cost you time. This could be having an undermining effect on the game.
    Do I think it's a bad thing? NO, this will hopefully attract new players, as the idea of playing through XX hours of content before getting to the "real" thing, being the endgame, is very intimidating to a new player, and also a deterrent. Hopefully this implementation will attract more players, and hopefully it won't have the bad effect that some people suspect it will. Personally I think it won't have a major impact (if any) on how the game is played in general.

  9. #569
    I unsubbed a few months ago with intentions of waiting for Warlords to drop but I'm done now. Fuck Blizzard and their pandering to the wrong audiences. Blizzard fanboys are the fucking WORST.

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    Do I think it's a bad thing? NO, this will hopefully attract new players, as the idea of playing through XX hours of content before getting to the "real" thing, being the endgame, is very intimidating to a new player, and also a deterrent. Hopefully this implementation will attract more players, and hopefully it won't have the bad effect that some people suspect it will. Personally I think it won't have a major impact (if any) on how the game is played in general.
    Players decided that "endgame" was "theonlygamethatmatters" all on their own. Blizzard has simply "made it so," because players had determined that nothing occurring at (max level)-1 was of any consequence any longer.

    Leveling is, at this point, a vestigial entertainment in the game.

    I would like to agree with people that it's worthwhile, "builds character" (haha so to speak), "pays your dues," "good for you," "helps you learn your class," whatever, but if I said that to you in person you would see me trying not to crack a grin because all of those are completely bullshit now.

    People get their brand new max level toons on the PTR and the world doesn't come to an end.

    It will be fine.

    I will continue leveling characters through that enormous mass of obsolete content, though, because I enjoy it, every so often.

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Players decided that "endgame" was "theonlygamethatmatters" all on their own. Blizzard has simply "made it so," because players had determined that nothing occurring at (max level)-1 was of any consequence any longer.

    Leveling is, at this point, a vestigial entertainment in the game.

    I would like to agree with people that it's worthwhile, "builds character" (haha so to speak), "pays your dues," "good for you," "helps you learn your class," whatever, but if I said that to you in person you would see me trying not to crack a grin because all of those are completely bullshit now.

    People get their brand new max level toons on the PTR and the world doesn't come to an end.

    It will be fine.

    I will continue leveling characters through that enormous mass of obsolete content, though, because I enjoy it, every so often.
    Well, the place where everyone is, is the place where you want to be in a multiplayer game , for MMOs, that's max level.

    But I maintain my argument of time = reward in the MMO-scene, and letting you buy 90 is saving you time! The next step could be that you are allowed to buy crafting mats as that is also merely a time consuming activity without any real content, I'm not saying this will happen, but in the terms of them letting us buy time means that we are at the very beginning of a slippery slope imo, and I hope we won't slip.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Remember we are living in the "It's only about me generation!" They won't see other wise.
    Oh, I forgot, me me me me me me me

  12. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    Well, the place where everyone is, is the place where you want to be in a multiplayer game , for MMOs, that's max level.
    Throughout Wrath, and a little ways into Cataclysm, the majority of players in WoW DID NOT have a max level character.

    So, where "most people" were was below level 80.

    But since then, for whatever reason, being sub max level has become something of a nuisance soon to be corrected, as opposed to something a character should be for a while.

    I don't care that much either way. I don't see that it makes any difference whether you are sitting at level 1 needing to gain levels or sitting at level 100 needing to gain gear.

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Throughout Wrath, and a little ways into Cataclysm, the majority of players in WoW DID NOT have a max level character.

    So, where "most people" were was below level 80.

    But since then, for whatever reason, being sub max level has become something of a nuisance soon to be corrected, as opposed to something a character should be for a while.

    I don't care that much either way. I don't see that it makes any difference whether you are sitting at level 1 needing to gain levels or sitting at level 100 needing to gain gear.
    Having not seen any of the numbers behind your statement I can't really argue for or against it.

    But I will argue that there is a difference if you're sitting at level 1 (where if it wasn't for crz there would be almost noone to be found outside of full realms) and level max which is teeming with opportunities to socialise and play in multi sort of way.

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlikemyrage View Post
    Didn't get past the first two pages of this ridiculous and pointless thread, but GODDAMN are people ignorant.

    If you:

    -Believe leveling is something that needs to be done, you are wrong.
    -Believe that actually leveling teaches people how to play, you are wrong.
    -Believe that more max level characters somehow negatively affects you, you are wrong.
    -Believe that you are a special snowflake, and you had to walk uphill both ways to Molten Core and so should everyone else, you are wrong.
    -Believe that buying a near max (or max during MoP, if it launches) is pretty much Pay-to-Win, you are wrong. (Since when is the goal of WoW to "win" by reaching max level that that's it?)
    -Believe that Blizzard should be vilified for making money as a business, through features many players/customers have asked for, you are wrong. And also naive.
    If any of that was true they should sell lvl 90's just now with a full set of 540 gear. None of that violates any of your points.
    I'm a Forsaken. I kill firstborns while their mamas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even, when I feel like it, rip the souls from little girls, and from now till kingdom come, the only thing you can count on in your existence is never understanding why.

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Magpai View Post
    Well DUUUH, obviously what you said would only be relevant if you meant more powerful items. I'm calling you on your bullshit, you're trying to change what you meant here, because you originally meant buying upgrades. What else could you mean? Buying downgrades? Stupid. Buying cosmetic items? Already in game.

    You're not fooling anyone here buddy.

    - - - Updated - - -
    I could really give two fucks about the ability to gain an insta-90. I repeat: I could really give two fucks about the ability to gain an insta-90.

    You with me so far?

    Okay, now, read this slowly. "Why are they SELLING them? Why not just give them away?"

    Next part.

    Some day, they maybe selling level 100's - Or even items.

    Slipper slope - nothing about P2W, purely about greed and where it may lead to in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    My opinion is that it is a necessary evil. I like populated queues, a robust AH and consistent development. Understandably, new subscriber numbers are not high and if market research shows that people feel daunted by the level climb from 1 to 100, they probably won't subscribe.

    Do I think this will be good for the quality of the player base? No. Am I forced to play with easily identified boosted individuals? Nope.

    In short: It is beneficial for the economy of the game and has no negative impact on me.
    Why does it have to be evil? Whether you have hundred 90's or none, they should offer it to the customer to play relevant content, where the mmo actually takes place. The glory days are gone, so is the desire to level again and again. Sure let people either level from 1 or insta-90, but don't charge people again, who just want to play something else.

    They absolutely abuse their loyal fanbase, this is as raunchy as first day DLC that was simply cut out of the game and resold for and extra 15 dollars.
    Last edited by Pickynerd; 2014-01-18 at 09:48 AM.

  16. #576
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    Yeah well, im willing to bet a huge amount of money on the fact they WILL sell items with stats at some point in the future. Probably not any current ilvl gear, but gear that will work as a catch-up to current content for alts or people that came back to the game after a long while. Sure its maybe not pro lewtz for money, but slowly but steadily this game is becoming more and more about money for bypassing stuff.

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Yes it does, they have made a lot of bad, unpopular decisions in the past few years and it shows from declining sub numbers. This one is going to be unpopular as well because most players actually don't want to pay.. other than die hard Blizzard fans who play anyway. For most it's going to be "if I already pay my $15 a month, why are they asking for more for this?".. it might not cause every single player to quit but even if they lose 2% to this, 1% to another unpopular change, 5% to that etc. it's going to add up.
    OK ... name something that has only made good, popular decisions.

  18. #578
    I'm reading all this back and forth and one thing keeps playing in my head.

    Blizzard is selling you the opposite of content.

    Read that again.
    A company is selling you a fucking void and you're thanking them for it.

    Capitalism truly rots the brain...

  19. #579
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    Nothing wrong with selling level 90's, so you get into the fun part of the game faster... so what? It's not buy to win because you aren't winning by reaching level 90.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crym View Post
    Spoiler: The reason Garrosh is defeated is because, just when he's being attacked, Malchezaar pops out of a portal, yells "yoink!", and takes his weapon away.
    Armory

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Roadblock View Post
    I'm reading all this back and forth and one thing keeps playing in my head.

    Blizzard is selling you the opposite of content.

    Read that again.
    A company is selling you a fucking void and you're thanking them for it.

    Capitalism truly rots the brain...
    I can't help but agree with this.

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