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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by vitu View Post
    Here i was just pinning up the tmog gear, mounts and pets as for 90 boosts... well believe it or not but you do learn some of your class while lvling. Don't believe me? Think you can learn your spec just by playing it on max lvl/reading a tutorial? Look at all those dps->tank/healer rerollers on lfr...
    I look forward to seeing the WoD threads raging about how terrible everyone 90-100 in dungeons and out in the world leveling.

    Remember all those silly things that you see people doing while leveling up? Priests in melee combat, mages hard-casting Pyro, Pally tanks with a two-hander...That's what the WoD 90-100 experience is going to be like. All because Blizz is hemorrhaging subs and is desperate for cash and players are inherently lazy.
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  2. #682
    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    Careful with that line of thinking on these forums, sine most rational people will mock you for making gross exaggerations.
    Won the post

  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by vitu View Post
    Here i was just pinning up the tmog gear, mounts and pets as for 90 boosts... well believe it or not but you do learn some of your class while lvling. Don't believe me? Think you can learn your spec just by playing it on max lvl/reading a tutorial? Look at all those dps->tank/healer rerollers on lfr...
    A whole lot of people level up with a different spec than they end up playing at max level. I know I did on multiple characters.

    Even if you do, though, is learning how to heal a 5 man balanced around the "is this item higher ilevel than the ones I have equipped?" gearing strategy really going to teach you that much about healing a raid? Does learning how to kill a mob that autoattacks and dies in 8 seconds teach you how to counter another team in an arena? And so on and so on.

    95% of what you learn about playing your character at max level is learned at max level. The other 5%, you CAN learn while leveling up - or just as easily at max level.

    The reason people are playing so poorly in LFR is that most people don't consider LFR to be serious content. It's where you go to figure things out about your character if you don't know how to play yet - not where you go once you know what to do.
    Last edited by Shamanberry; 2014-01-19 at 04:29 PM.

  4. #684
    I think the problem here is that Blizzard tried to slowly introduce micro-transactions into the game and succeeded. It's been going on for years now and every time they have pushed the boundaries a little further. At first it was a services, then a few pets and most people said it's nothing and doesn't change anything.. Well, maybe they didn't change much on their own but take a step back now and take all those cash shop related topics into account. WoW is already following the F2P freemium model now.. only without the free part. You still have to pay the subscription on top of everything.

    I guess you can't really blame them though, they're just taking advantage of their monopoly. If we had 3+ roughly equal MMOs on the market and lots of competition between them, they could never have got away with this.

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    I think the problem here is that Blizzard tried to slowly introduce micro-transactions into the game and succeeded. It's been going on for years now and every time they have pushed the boundaries a little further. At first it was a services, then a few pets and most people said it's nothing and doesn't change anything.. Well, maybe they didn't change much on their own but take a step back now and take all those cash shop related topics into account. WoW is already following the F2P freemium model now.. only without the free part. You still have to pay the subscription on top of everything.

    I guess you can't really blame them though, they're just taking advantage of their monopoly. If we had 3+ roughly equal MMOs on the market and lots of competition between them, they could never have got away with this.
    It isn't a monopoly by any stretch of the imagination. WoW doesn't just compete with other MMOs. It competes with a broad swath of other video games and other forms of entertainment. It's a commonly propagated fallacy that entertainment products only compete with other entertainment products that fall into the same very, very narrow category. WoW still has to have at least a perceived value, dollar for dollar, that exceeds that of spending that money on other entertainment products, even if there were zero other MMOs on the market.

  6. #686
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    I guess you can't really blame them though, they're just taking advantage of their monopoly. If we had 3+ roughly equal MMOs on the market and lots of competition between them, they could never have got away with this.
    Gotten away with what? Charging a subscription while selling things in a cash shop? 90% of free to play games also offer subscription packages. Why does it make a difference what the base level of the game costs? Why is it only bad when Blizzard does it, but not when any other company does it? Magazines, Newspapers, Netflix, Cable Companies, Insurance, Car companies, Airlines, Amazon Prime etc all charge you a subscription fee while also selling you additional items at an extra cost.

    Why is it so wrong for a subscription game to sell additional things at an additional cost?
    Last edited by rhorle; 2014-01-19 at 06:31 PM.
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  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Gotten away with what? Charging a subscription while selling things in a cash shop? 90% of free to play games also offer subscription packages? Why does it make a difference what the base level of the game costs? Why is it only bad when Blizzard does it, but not when any other company does it? Magazines, Newspapers, Netflix, Cable Companies, Insurance, Car companies, Airlines, Amazon Prime etc all charge you a subscription fee while also selling you additional items at an extra cost.

    Why is it so wrong for a subscription game to sell additional things at an additional cost?
    Because Blizzard is not supposed to be a business damnit! It's supposed to be a non-profit organisation with the intent to spread happiness and joy!

  8. #688
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    Because Blizzard is not supposed to be a business damnit! It's supposed to be a non-profit organisation with the intent to spread happiness and joy!
    Sarcasm aside, they can do both. The problem with this shitty business attitude is that it goes for the MOST possible profit they can suck out. Which means 100% of the time they will disregard game quality if it means they make one more dollar. It's really sad seeing people perpetuating this toxic philosophy.

  9. #689
    Quote Originally Posted by Infernix View Post
    I look forward to seeing the WoD threads raging about how terrible everyone 90-100 in dungeons and out in the world leveling.

    Remember all those silly things that you see people doing while leveling up? Priests in melee combat, mages hard-casting Pyro, Pally tanks with a two-hander...That's what the WoD 90-100 experience is going to be like. All because Blizz is hemorrhaging subs and is desperate for cash and players are inherently lazy.
    Are players also inherently flushed with cash?

    And honestly, I would rather play with someone with the desire to play than a burnt out player who goes afk half the time because that's technically the bare minimum he needs to do to claw his way through an instance. At least the new guy will be willing to learn, and if he's not, well then he's going to be a dick no matter the level we play with him.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Sarcasm aside, they can do both. The problem with this shitty business attitude is that it goes for the MOST possible profit they can suck out. Which means 100% of the time they will disregard game quality if it means they make one more dollar. It's really sad seeing people perpetuating this toxic philosophy.
    Are they cutting back on developers? Because that would be the first obvious step to suck more profit out of the game, which would obviously hurt the quality of the game. Just because YOU don't like the game anymore doesn't mean the quality has gone down in general.

    The majority of your posts are personal opinions you claim as facts, but that doesn't make them fact though.

  10. #690
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post

    Are they cutting back on developers? Because that would be the first obvious step to suck more profit out of the game, which would obviously hurt the quality of the game. Just because YOU don't like the game anymore doesn't mean the quality has gone down in general.

    The majority of your posts are personal opinions you claim as facts, but that doesn't make them fact though.
    Yes they did cut back on devs actually. Hopefully WoD will be good if it's true that they brought the old devs over from Titan.
    Don't remember saying they're facts. Do I need to start each sentence with 'In my opinion' for you?

  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Sarcasm aside, they can do both. The problem with this shitty business attitude is that it goes for the MOST possible profit they can suck out. Which means 100% of the time they will disregard game quality if it means they make one more dollar. It's really sad seeing people perpetuating this toxic philosophy.
    Yep, exactly.. business doesn't mean having to sell low quality products for insane prices. It's just right now they're basically a monopoly when it comes to sub based MMOs so they can get away with it. Which to be honest is a shame because I used to like WoW. But this new model is making it unplayable because I refuse to pay anything on top of the already expensive sub (compared to other games) and don't want to be a "second class citizen" or spend countless hours of farming stuff and having to compete with players who can get the same result instantly by opening their wallets.

  12. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Yes they did cut back on devs actually. Hopefully WoD will be good if it's true that they brought the old devs over from Titan.
    Don't remember saying they're facts. Do I need to start each sentence with 'In my opinion' for you?
    You've stated several of your opinions as fact in the past.
    And well, if you have any numbers on when / why they cut back on Devs that would be cool.
    Meanwhile here is a quote from Blizzard in an interview with eurogamer from nov 9 2013:
    "While subscriber numbers have reduced steadily over recent years, World of Warcraft remains the world's most popular subscription MMO nine years into its life, and Blizzard said it was investing more resources into its ongoing development than ever before."

  13. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Yes they did cut back on devs actually. Hopefully WoD will be good if it's true that they brought the old devs over from Titan.
    Don't remember saying they're facts. Do I need to start each sentence with 'In my opinion' for you?
    Link proof that they cut back on devs? All I've ever seen was that they added devs, like you just said from Titan, never anything about firing people.
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  14. #694
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Gotten away with what? Charging a subscription while selling things in a cash shop? 90% of free to play games also offer subscription packages. Why does it make a difference what the base level of the game costs? Why is it only bad when Blizzard does it, but not when any other company does it? Magazines, Newspapers, Netflix, Cable Companies, Insurance, Car companies, Airlines, Amazon Prime etc all charge you a subscription fee while also selling you additional items at an extra cost.

    Why is it so wrong for a subscription game to sell additional things at an additional cost?
    If Blizzard ran Netflix, you would be paying a monthly subscription and you would have to pay extra every couple of years to get a big bundle of new content. Oh, and if you wanted to change which device you watched it on, they would charge you $25 extra.

    And they would be planning to charge an extra fee on top that would let you skip watching the last two seasons of Heroes, because it was a bit shit.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Yep, exactly.. business doesn't mean having to sell low quality products for insane prices. It's just right now they're basically a monopoly when it comes to sub based MMOs so they can get away with it. Which to be honest is a shame because I used to like WoW. But this new model is making it unplayable because I refuse to pay anything on top of the already expensive sub (compared to other games) and don't want to be a "second class citizen" or spend countless hours of farming stuff and having to compete with players who can get the same result instantly by opening their wallets.
    World of Warcraft is a low quality product how?
    And I agree, if they continue by adding more items to their ingame store, specifically items with more impact, such as crafting mats or items then I will also quit the game. But with the level 90, I that see more as an attempt to get new players involved in the game than a money grabbing (which I suppose getting new players could also be considered as). If they start slipping down the slippery slope however, it's a different story.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    If Blizzard ran Netflix, you would be paying a monthly subscription and you would have to pay extra every couple of years to get a big bundle of new content. Oh, and if you wanted to change which device you watched it on, they would charge you $25 extra.

    And they would be planning to charge an extra fee on top that would let you skip watching the last two seasons of Heroes, because it was a bit shit.
    And you are providing a fan site with traffic increasing the overall interest in the game (and their company in general), well done sir!

  16. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Selling level 90s impacts you how, exactly?
    My thoughts exactly. How would it affect any of us since we can simply choose not to use that feature, plus it's so easy to level in WoW nowadays we may as well just be given free 90's. The fact is it doesn't really affect you unless you use it. There are a ton of things I ignore in this game, I'm sure others can do the same. Not the end of the world(of warcraft).

    Just like I avoid LFR like the plague, I may hate it, I may think "well.. may as well just put a vendor with free gear for everyone in LFR ilvls" but I'm not gonna quit over some stupid shit.

    I think the issues here with most people are they refuse to accept the fact that after playing a game for 8+ years they may be burnt out, so you gotta nit pick at dumb ass reasons why you are "drawing the line". Haha...

    I hated the panda's in MoP, know what I did? Ignored the expansion 90% of its life span. I am coming back full swing in WoD and hold no grudges. Sometimes you disagree with shit, tbh most people here will not care and it's pointless to QQ about.

    WoW is still the best and highest quality MMO out there imo, no matter what happens. The great thing about this game is there is always alternatives, unlike certain other MMO's.
    Last edited by Lazuli; 2014-01-19 at 07:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta
    Oh my god, a company tries to put some lore flavor into the game mechanics, all is lost, whatever shall we do without a whole 1% of crit or haste.

    Quick, call Ukraine and Russia, let them know to put their conflict on standby because Touch of Elune is BULLSHIT!

  17. #697
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    If Blizzard ran Netflix, you would be paying a monthly subscription and you would have to pay extra every couple of years to get a big bundle of new content. Oh, and if you wanted to change which device you watched it on, they would charge you $25 extra. And they would be planning to charge an extra fee on top that would let you skip watching the last two seasons of Heroes, because it was a bit shit.
    You mean like I have to pay for DVD's and streaming? And I have to pay extra for Blu-ray discs? And if you want more then one disc out at a time they charge you more per month? Oh wait, I forgot that it is okay for other companies to do it just as long as they are not Blizzard Entertainment, INC.
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  18. #698
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    World of Warcraft is a low quality product how?
    And I agree, if they continue by adding more items to their ingame store, specifically items with more impact, such as crafting mats or items then I will also quit the game. But with the level 90, I that see more as an attempt to get new players involved in the game than a money grabbing (which I suppose getting new players could also be considered as). If they start slipping down the slippery slope however, it's a different story.
    Well, buying a level 90 already gives you a very significant advantage. In fact, I think it's worse than selling starter gear. Well unless they get rid of daily CDs from professions. And that's not all.. they also sell BoE pets you can sell to other players so it's an indirect way of selling gold. Size of your wallet already decides how successful you will be in game and while it is possible to achieve the same by grinding, it already affects the game and punishes those unwilling to spend money.

  19. #699
    The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!

    Here's what gets me. What is there for someone with a 90 of every class. Don't say no lifer, it takes no time at all to reach 90 guys. The free character to 90 doesn't really offer this crowd anything. I know it's hard to balance new classes but it's one of the things I look forward to every expansion, and really they did a pretty good job with monks. It's just a bad choice all around for a feature. I was so looking forward to the possibility of a Demon Hunter or Shadow Hunter or what have you. While I am looking forward to this expansion, I'm scared it will be stale. My 2 cents.

  20. #700
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Well, buying a level 90 already gives you a very significant advantage. In fact, I think it's worse than selling starter gear. Well unless they get rid of daily CDs from professions. And that's not all.. they also sell BoE pets you can sell to other players so it's an indirect way of selling gold. Size of your wallet already decides how successful you will be in game and while it is possible to achieve the same by grinding, it already affects the game and punishes those unwilling to spend money.
    No point in arguing about this, we just have different views on how significant of an advantage it is.

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