Thanks to Jofe for reminding me of this post.
Thanks to Jofe for reminding me of this post.
If they are going to make end game content the focus of the game and completely ignore older content then they need to offer previous expansions for free. You have to pay for Vanilla-MoP yet it's only about MoP?...I'd be kinds off put if I was new.
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The old content is there for those that enjoy it, kinda like Pet Battles or Archeology. You don't have to do those by any means, and there's a ton of depth to both systems that people may not know the first thing about. Same thing applies to, say, WotLK content right now. Leveling through, you probably have no idea about how much content there is with the Argent Tournament, or how to get Quel'delar, or the quests and dungeons that lead up to the storyline of Icecrown Citadel. You simply skip all of that stuff while leveling up, because you're not going to hang around and gear up for level 80 when all of the action is happening at level 90.
Because you can't skip current content, only content that is already outdated and finished updating. They don't go back and make new content for level 1-85 right now. The content that exists there is the stuff that used to be current content a few years ago. When they make new content, they design it for the current expansion, and 95% of it is for max level.Still. What's keeping them from purposely making eh content if people are willing to pay them to skip it? It's a win win for Bliz.
i think the real shame is that you're defending it because "i don't wanna level for the Nth time so let me skip it". this is the worst possible logic when it comes to game design. just skip it. your like a kid playing an RPG. you skip everything and then what happens? you dunno what to do. thats what. not that everyone would be affected like this, but i can definitely see it being a problem. that aside though, theres a larger underlying problem.
blizz selling 90's like this, heirlooms, etc, its a way of saying they have essentially given up on designing leveling content. a game DESIGNER, has given up on DESIGNING PART OF THE GAME. and you all are advocating this. you all make me sick. rather than "how can we make the leveling process more intereting? less of a grind? a better way to teach players their class?" you all just say "SCREW IT".
you wanna know one way to make leveling content more interesting? randomized events. not quests, not mobs, EVENTS. and i'm not talking large holiday stuff either. i mean events that can happen randomly out in the world of warcraft while leveling, perhaps a random large-scale attack between horde and alliance forces that your input can affect(in contested zones). and i don't mean outland PvP objective type things. i mean PvE fights. large amounts of regular mobs attacking other large groups of regular mobs. the side that has more after a certain amount of time wins that fight. this would confer a benefit to the winning side, and maybe even a detriment to the losing one.
for non-contested zones there could be events that pit your faction against whatever monsters they may be facing at any one time. for example in eastern plaguelands you could have a large scale attack force heading from stratholme to lights hope, and its the players jobs to make sure it is either weakened or defeated by the time it gets there, or it can potentially cause very bad effects(like losing quest-givers or something), and beating them back could confer a buff of the light that increases damage against undead for until the next attack. of course there would be warnings to this and they would be geared for at-level players. maybe phase people of a higher level so that they can't participate in the events, to make it interesting. it would have to be realm(or connected realm) specific though. i realize that plaguelands is technically "contested" but aside from the duels that go on near thondoril river, theres not much PvP. its more of a neutral zone, and a good place to have an "everyone is equal, common enemy" type thing going, against the forces of stratholme. another thing is, there could be a different benefit to just "stalling them" for a certain amount of time, and "beating them back" entirely. perhaps some sort of achievement(that changes depending on the size of the force beat back), a trophy, a piece of gear, maybe a pair of mogg-able gloves that have the argent dawn insignia on the back of them, with a faint glow. of course, these events won't all be solo-able. some will require anyone in the area to help with it like stratholme. others will just be large scale fights that the player can participate in. of course the mobs will be somewhat hard to deal with so a single OP person can't just faceroll his way through the entire opposing army.
and by randomized, i mean completely. not on a set timer. they have the rolling mechanic already that gives a seemingly random number between 1 and 100. use that to determine a time when said event will happen. its not that difficult a thing to manage honestly, once its set in motion. have a seperate roll for the type of event(depending on area's, certain ones may only get 1 kind of event). the third roll will decide the sizes of the forces that will fight(except for cases like the plaguelands ones, where lights-hope would most likely stay for the most part un-altered, aside from dialogue and what not). this would also mean tiered achievements based on the size of the forces that are fought. again lights hope chapel could have a "Beat back the undead scouts" and a "triumphed over the undead army" achievement for smaller and larger army sizes respectively. mind the forces won't change drastically in contested scenarios, as that would confer an un-fair advantage. its just that one might be slightly smaller or bigger then a set average. not by a lot but by a notice-able amount. for non-contested ones though, the army could range from anywhere from a few groups of 10 to a a few hundred undead. there could even be an option to teleport right to the combat, or rather, the starting point for your side in the conflict(again, for example, lights hope chapel), with a warning saying that the creatures in said area may or may not be a slightly higher level than you after the event is over with, and things return for the most part to normal.
other ways would be to even out the leveling paces between expansions(and levels) so they don't take dramatic climbs in time needed, but still rise as you level. make dungeons a challenge again. then people wouldn't face roll them and get sick of them in a single sitting, and give them incentive to do quests as a faster alternative to dungeons, while dungeons hold better gear.
there are PLENTY of ways to improve the leveling process. instead of improvement though, you are advocating turning a very large portion of the game into dead weight for a single continent that will become dead weight in a year or 2. you all make me sick to my stomach. those of you that don't advocate this god-awful mess of a catch-up mechanic, i salute you.
Last edited by Somaldelhar; 2014-01-20 at 08:26 AM. Reason: elaboration and editing
Before you throw up, think a little about the retarded things you are saying there. The leveling content until 90 IS ALREADY DESIGNED. Also it's already experienced by hmmmm 90% of the player base or more? They aren't designing it anymore, even the old world revamp was thrashed by a lot of peopleblizz selling 90's like this, heirlooms, etc, its a way of saying they have essentially given up on designing leveling content. a game DESIGNER, has given up on DESIGNING PART OF THE GAME. and you all are advocating this. you all make me sick.
I still like to level alts, and I would never ever buy a fucking level 90 with the price of a new game or whatever price, BUT that doesn't mean many wouldn't prefer that way, and fuck me if I want to fuck up their gaming style by bitching about it.
There is NOTHING to improve about the leveling process as long as you've experienced it multiple times already, unless they change it again. Not to mention those that hate the leveling by default and wouldn't do it even if it came bundled with a free blow job
First off, new players cannot buy a level 90... only a player WITH a level 90 can buy a level 90. They've SEEN the leveling content.
Secondly, No - blizz is NOT ignoring leveling content. Last I checked, we're going to have 10 more levels next expansion. Guess what? I'm betting the next expansion will have an additional set number o flevels with quests too...
Thirdly, and this is the big one, YOU are the kind of people that make me sick - because if blizz actually implemented your "How can we make leveling more interest/less grind/ect" instead of this level 90 jump/skip, you will bitch that Blizzard is nerfing the game instead - and you damn well know you would.
Skipping content you've already seen is perfectly fine... I never replay an RPG simply because I don't want to trudge through that again. If I did want to... I'd do it willingly. Remember, it's the PLAYER option, it's not mandatory.
And you know leveling doesn't teach you your class or raid encounters... I'd argue that the Brawlers Guild at level 90 teaches a player 10x more to be a hardcore raider than standard leveling ever will how to play their class.
EDIT: I must note that I'm not really for the level 90 skip, but I argue that it has more to do with charging players for more features in a SUBSCRIPTION based game. Your "points" are completely false as your fears are completely unfounded as NEW players cannot purchase level 90 boosts.
Last edited by mvallas; 2014-01-20 at 08:22 AM.
on your second point however, in the case we are talking about, we are not talking current tier. we are talking about everything that would be skipped, AKA past tiers. thus your second point is basically not applicable to this specific arguement.
third, what the hell is that even supposed to mean? "blizz is making a feature more fun/improving it so its getting nerfed"? so long as the end-game remains the same no one will say shit about nerfing, and the people who REALLY hate leveling would simply, as i said above, not level. none of those changes need to be made in one over-arching patch like a new raid or area would. just over time make a quality of life change to the leveling process.
on your 4th point, its that exact line of thought i don't like. "i've seen it so it doesn't matter". i'd like to make that thought heavily less applicable to the leveling process by adding a heavy amount of randomized events to various areas. making them so that higher level characters can't do them makes it that much more interesting.
as for brawlers guild, it is a very good way to learn a characters strengths and weaknesses and a good intro to raiding. i don't disagree. however, i'm saying helping the player to learn they're class at level would be a lot better than relying on something like brawlers guild, which was introduced as more of a test of ones mettle rather than a raid teaching mechanic. not that it can't be used as one. basically, i think learning ones character SHOULD come from the leveling process (imagine that in an RPG).
aside from that would you happen to have any complaints about the actual changes i went forth to put out there? or did you ignore those because you thought it would be easier to ignore and tell me off that way?
Edit: i just noticed this but i don't even think i mentioned "New Players". just "players". if you were talking about the class teaching thing, then that could apply to anyone starting a new class they haven't had before.
Last edited by Somaldelhar; 2014-01-20 at 08:46 AM.
I'm going to get to the part of the game which gives me the widest possible options of stuff to do, and you think I'll get to 90 and go? huh? what's VP? What's a keybind?! HOW DO I TURN??
Grow up buddy, I'll buy a 90, craft some gear, do dungeons, do lfr and play the game while you'll still be here complaining that this is the worst thing to ever happen.
And they will let you.
They will NEVER overhaul anything again after most people BITCHED about the Cata overhaul. The overhaul is gone, bye bye, sayonara, a rivederci, auf wiedersehen...lets ignore the people that hate leveling, as you said if they don't wanna do it they won't. as for the "90% of the game is already designed" load of shit, most of it was designed years ago(TBC and WoTLK) and cata already proved they can over-haul zones. they are already doing technological leaps with connected realms and such. i don't think implementing what i said would be difficult, just time consuming. they don't need to do it all at once either. just over time, implement new small or large things in new area's. it is really not as difficult as you assume considering the technological advances the company has made.
You don't seem to understand how much time and resources that shit takes, even though the Cata expansion failure is a pretty good indicator that happens if you try to "fix" old content instead of providing a shitload of NEW content.
And you fail to realize that even if they would change them again, which they won't, ever, it only takes another toon and you AGAIN have seen the content and don't want to do it again, and we're back in the square 1...
11 x garrosh kills
8 x garrosh kills
If you think I'm going to get bored of the reason I play wow, you're simply telling yourself what you want to hear.
But more importantly, I didn't mean that it is literally you who will grow bored of gearing and ask Blizzard. I meant a proportion of people who'd buy character boosts in general. They *will* say they don't have time to gear newly bought alts, and ask for gear for these alts, guaranteed. Using the same "it takes no skill anyway, it's just tedious" rhetoric. Just wait.
And if that was the case and people start asking for paid gear then I will be on your side, but I can't be on your side in favour of a stupid boring unskilled unnecessary gating mechanic because of a possible slippery slope.
As to gating mechanic and boring leveling - I'd have an easier time with them just making character boosts free, if you have a level 90. Maybe there should be a cooldown on that - eg, one level 90 a month or one level 90 a raid tier / arena season. That's bad for FotMs, but it's miles better than the same but paid-for. The main problem I have with the paid boost is that this is one more extra payment in a sub-based game and one more step down the road to p2w.
Last edited by rda; 2014-01-20 at 12:58 PM.
Has anyone else noticed how in vanilla/tbc wow players were like 10 year olds whining over everything that they didn't have. Then they finally started to get it in wotlk and so on. Now we've grown up and we're like FFFFUUU BLIZZARD STOP GIVING IN TO OUR WHINING. The children have now become the adults, bad parenting Blizzard! Oh, and new players are the spoiled little siblings.
You talk about "cool" random events that require more than one person, which is fun, unless you're alone there and an army of 100 undeads march towards your quest givers and now suddenly you have to find something else to do because the town you were questing near has been wiped out.
They already tried reworking the leveling experience to get people back, and it did for a short while, but then it fizzled and all the work done in Cataclysm to rework zones was to a degree wasted.
When you talk about dead weight you have to realise that the leveling process right now is regarded as mostly dead weight, and when they tried to make it "fresh" again it turned out to be a waste of developer time, with the 20/20 hindsight I would rather have seen more content in Cata than the reworked continent, and for a new player, the reworked continent didn't mean anything, because he hadn't seen the original one.
And please: "Make dungeons challenging AGAIN", dungeons were never challenging, they suffer heavily under heirloom gear, because they are tuned for non heirloom, but they are pretty much the same difficulty as they've always been.
We might be making you sick to your stomach, but I'm a realist, I won't be using the service, but I can see why they are testing it out.