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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post

    Are they cutting back on developers? Because that would be the first obvious step to suck more profit out of the game, which would obviously hurt the quality of the game. Just because YOU don't like the game anymore doesn't mean the quality has gone down in general.

    The majority of your posts are personal opinions you claim as facts, but that doesn't make them fact though.
    Yes they did cut back on devs actually. Hopefully WoD will be good if it's true that they brought the old devs over from Titan.
    Don't remember saying they're facts. Do I need to start each sentence with 'In my opinion' for you?

  2. #682
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Sarcasm aside, they can do both. The problem with this shitty business attitude is that it goes for the MOST possible profit they can suck out. Which means 100% of the time they will disregard game quality if it means they make one more dollar. It's really sad seeing people perpetuating this toxic philosophy.
    Yep, exactly.. business doesn't mean having to sell low quality products for insane prices. It's just right now they're basically a monopoly when it comes to sub based MMOs so they can get away with it. Which to be honest is a shame because I used to like WoW. But this new model is making it unplayable because I refuse to pay anything on top of the already expensive sub (compared to other games) and don't want to be a "second class citizen" or spend countless hours of farming stuff and having to compete with players who can get the same result instantly by opening their wallets.

  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Yes they did cut back on devs actually. Hopefully WoD will be good if it's true that they brought the old devs over from Titan.
    Don't remember saying they're facts. Do I need to start each sentence with 'In my opinion' for you?
    You've stated several of your opinions as fact in the past.
    And well, if you have any numbers on when / why they cut back on Devs that would be cool.
    Meanwhile here is a quote from Blizzard in an interview with eurogamer from nov 9 2013:
    "While subscriber numbers have reduced steadily over recent years, World of Warcraft remains the world's most popular subscription MMO nine years into its life, and Blizzard said it was investing more resources into its ongoing development than ever before."

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Yes they did cut back on devs actually. Hopefully WoD will be good if it's true that they brought the old devs over from Titan.
    Don't remember saying they're facts. Do I need to start each sentence with 'In my opinion' for you?
    Link proof that they cut back on devs? All I've ever seen was that they added devs, like you just said from Titan, never anything about firing people.

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Gotten away with what? Charging a subscription while selling things in a cash shop? 90% of free to play games also offer subscription packages. Why does it make a difference what the base level of the game costs? Why is it only bad when Blizzard does it, but not when any other company does it? Magazines, Newspapers, Netflix, Cable Companies, Insurance, Car companies, Airlines, Amazon Prime etc all charge you a subscription fee while also selling you additional items at an extra cost.

    Why is it so wrong for a subscription game to sell additional things at an additional cost?
    If Blizzard ran Netflix, you would be paying a monthly subscription and you would have to pay extra every couple of years to get a big bundle of new content. Oh, and if you wanted to change which device you watched it on, they would charge you $25 extra.

    And they would be planning to charge an extra fee on top that would let you skip watching the last two seasons of Heroes, because it was a bit shit.
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  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Yep, exactly.. business doesn't mean having to sell low quality products for insane prices. It's just right now they're basically a monopoly when it comes to sub based MMOs so they can get away with it. Which to be honest is a shame because I used to like WoW. But this new model is making it unplayable because I refuse to pay anything on top of the already expensive sub (compared to other games) and don't want to be a "second class citizen" or spend countless hours of farming stuff and having to compete with players who can get the same result instantly by opening their wallets.
    World of Warcraft is a low quality product how?
    And I agree, if they continue by adding more items to their ingame store, specifically items with more impact, such as crafting mats or items then I will also quit the game. But with the level 90, I that see more as an attempt to get new players involved in the game than a money grabbing (which I suppose getting new players could also be considered as). If they start slipping down the slippery slope however, it's a different story.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    If Blizzard ran Netflix, you would be paying a monthly subscription and you would have to pay extra every couple of years to get a big bundle of new content. Oh, and if you wanted to change which device you watched it on, they would charge you $25 extra.

    And they would be planning to charge an extra fee on top that would let you skip watching the last two seasons of Heroes, because it was a bit shit.
    And you are providing a fan site with traffic increasing the overall interest in the game (and their company in general), well done sir!

  7. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Selling level 90s impacts you how, exactly?
    My thoughts exactly. How would it affect any of us since we can simply choose not to use that feature, plus it's so easy to level in WoW nowadays we may as well just be given free 90's. The fact is it doesn't really affect you unless you use it. There are a ton of things I ignore in this game, I'm sure others can do the same. Not the end of the world(of warcraft).

    Just like I avoid LFR like the plague, I may hate it, I may think "well.. may as well just put a vendor with free gear for everyone in LFR ilvls" but I'm not gonna quit over some stupid shit.

    I think the issues here with most people are they refuse to accept the fact that after playing a game for 8+ years they may be burnt out, so you gotta nit pick at dumb ass reasons why you are "drawing the line". Haha...

    I hated the panda's in MoP, know what I did? Ignored the expansion 90% of its life span. I am coming back full swing in WoD and hold no grudges. Sometimes you disagree with shit, tbh most people here will not care and it's pointless to QQ about.

    WoW is still the best and highest quality MMO out there imo, no matter what happens. The great thing about this game is there is always alternatives, unlike certain other MMO's.
    Last edited by Lazuli; 2014-01-19 at 07:07 PM.

  8. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    If Blizzard ran Netflix, you would be paying a monthly subscription and you would have to pay extra every couple of years to get a big bundle of new content. Oh, and if you wanted to change which device you watched it on, they would charge you $25 extra. And they would be planning to charge an extra fee on top that would let you skip watching the last two seasons of Heroes, because it was a bit shit.
    You mean like I have to pay for DVD's and streaming? And I have to pay extra for Blu-ray discs? And if you want more then one disc out at a time they charge you more per month? Oh wait, I forgot that it is okay for other companies to do it just as long as they are not Blizzard Entertainment, INC.
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  9. #689
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    World of Warcraft is a low quality product how?
    And I agree, if they continue by adding more items to their ingame store, specifically items with more impact, such as crafting mats or items then I will also quit the game. But with the level 90, I that see more as an attempt to get new players involved in the game than a money grabbing (which I suppose getting new players could also be considered as). If they start slipping down the slippery slope however, it's a different story.
    Well, buying a level 90 already gives you a very significant advantage. In fact, I think it's worse than selling starter gear. Well unless they get rid of daily CDs from professions. And that's not all.. they also sell BoE pets you can sell to other players so it's an indirect way of selling gold. Size of your wallet already decides how successful you will be in game and while it is possible to achieve the same by grinding, it already affects the game and punishes those unwilling to spend money.

  10. #690
    The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!

    Here's what gets me. What is there for someone with a 90 of every class. Don't say no lifer, it takes no time at all to reach 90 guys. The free character to 90 doesn't really offer this crowd anything. I know it's hard to balance new classes but it's one of the things I look forward to every expansion, and really they did a pretty good job with monks. It's just a bad choice all around for a feature. I was so looking forward to the possibility of a Demon Hunter or Shadow Hunter or what have you. While I am looking forward to this expansion, I'm scared it will be stale. My 2 cents.

  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    Well, buying a level 90 already gives you a very significant advantage. In fact, I think it's worse than selling starter gear. Well unless they get rid of daily CDs from professions. And that's not all.. they also sell BoE pets you can sell to other players so it's an indirect way of selling gold. Size of your wallet already decides how successful you will be in game and while it is possible to achieve the same by grinding, it already affects the game and punishes those unwilling to spend money.
    No point in arguing about this, we just have different views on how significant of an advantage it is.

  12. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So why can f2p games have a monthly subscription but a pay to play game can not have a cash shop? The flaw in your reasoning is that there is nothing wrong with a subscription service selling additional items at an extra cost. Many companies do it that range across all types of products. Blizzard certainly isn't the first and they won't be the last.

    Why should everything be free just because you pay a monthly fee?
    F2P games having things like premium memberships in place of subscriptions like WoW is different due to the WoW subscription being required just to access the servers. If I took a break from the game and just wanted to do something here and there every once in a while then I could without having to plop down a monthly fee.

    US and EU are paying for the expansion and the subscription. Nothing is free and is already being charged for. If Blizzard wants to piece out content then they need to swap to a la carte or adapt the F2P model with a premium membership as optional rather than a required subscription. Any game with a required subscription is not F2P.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2014-01-19 at 07:43 PM.

  13. #693
    Went to the whole thread, here are some highlights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post

    Also there's this statement from Bashiok:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."
    http://www.crispygamer.com/comics/di...008-01-13.aspx xD

    Quote Originally Posted by Tastyfish View Post
    SO they are testing something they ARE GOING TO DO.
    so why test it out if the plan is to make it work anyhow? :P
    wouldn't it just be released when it's done? :P
    Probably because they want to test that the system is working properly. When they were going to introduce faction transfers and character re customization they tested the systems on the PTR first.

    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    Blizzard would lose millions of subs out of player protest if they put items with stats in the shop, and we all know how Blizzard is when it comes to corporate profits. Stats in shop = lost subs = lost money. The lost sub money would outweigh the profits from the shop and therefore Blizzard won't do it.
    Seeing how people just nod at everything Blizzard does I doubt it. Hell I think there's even a couple people in this thread that have said that they wouldn't care if Blizzard sold gear with stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Blizzard is the one that constantly says "Anything we do takes away from MoP development"
    That takes me back to the whole "Blizzard didn't make a pet for the anniversary because it would have taken time out of WoD development" yet somehow they found time to make a new store mount.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    I would not mind leveling again if the experience could be improved. However based on the only improvements has made (reduced XP and Cata) I am hesitant to hope that Blizzard could make leveling enjoyable again.
    I feel that is part of the problem people have with this. Instead of them going back and try to fix the leveling process they simply take the option that makes them more money and sell lvl 90.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadblock View Post
    I'm reading all this back and forth and one thing keeps playing in my head.

    Blizzard is selling you the opposite of content.

    Read that again.
    A company is selling you a fucking void and you're thanking them for it.

    Capitalism truly rots the brain...
    That's an interesting way to see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lastgope View Post
    KEYWORD is testing
    The thing here is that is the system what they're going to test, not the possibility of selling the character boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Gotten away with what? Charging a subscription while selling things in a cash shop? 90% of free to play games also offer subscription packages. Why does it make a difference what the base level of the game costs? Why is it only bad when Blizzard does it, but not when any other company does it? Magazines, Newspapers, Netflix, Cable Companies, Insurance, Car companies, Airlines, Amazon Prime etc all charge you a subscription fee while also selling you additional items at an extra cost.

    Why is it so wrong for a subscription game to sell additional things at an additional cost?
    Most (if not all, I don't know all of them so can't check them) of the f2p MMOs give you something extra when you pay a subscription. Either be extra xp/money/drops, store currency/discounts, mounts or other gifts or in some retarded cases like swtor interface options. That's why they "get away with it" the subscription is something extra and comes with extra stuff, not something that is required to play the game. Maybe your other examples can be proof that a company will go as far as its costumers let it.

    I don't think the slippery slope hasn't ended yet. However we're not as far as some seem to think. If anything the trend continues. As has been stated before Blizzard has said that they wouldn't do a lot of things, yet they ended doing them as years passed and while I can't assure that they will eventually sell stuff that give power I feel that the day will arrive sooner than we expect. For me the game is a very low point at the moment(as in my personal feelings towards the game, not as a general opinion of the quality of it), not because of this alone. A lot of factors have gone into this feeling. For now I'm willing to give WoD a chance, but I don't see myself getting it on launch or even at all. It depends on how the things look as development goes by.

  14. #694
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So why can f2p games have a monthly subscription but a pay to play game can not have a cash shop? The flaw in your reasoning is that there is nothing wrong with a subscription service selling additional items at an extra cost. Many companies do it that range across all types of products. Blizzard certainly isn't the first and they won't be the last.

    Why should everything be free just because you pay a monthly fee?
    What the actual hell. F2P games don't have a subscription and if they do they usually give you full access to everything they provide anyway. We're paying a subscription specifically to have full access, otherwise we wouldn't need said subscription to begin with. Stuff isn't free, we're already paying for it.

    Just like the selling of increased experience potions impacted every ones game play? Funny how no one complains about that still. What if selling of level X is only for certain markets? What if they limit it to Asian realms? It also isn't an arduous grind to 90, even for a 100% new player. Leveling is pretty fast, and if it is an alt you can power level to 90 in a few days. Will some still by a level 90? Sure, people have disposable income.
    The potion wasn't for the European market but the Asian alone and honestly I couldn't care less about Asia. Aslo again your argumentation is lackluster and bad. By your same logic they should sell about anything ingame, afterall people have disposable income and what's wrong with them doing so? How about coding additional content only available through the store?
    New raid patch? Buy it at the store. New PvP season? Buy it at the store. How about they limit battlegrounds to 1-3 a day or even a week and then you can buy a pass from the store to allow you to join more? Nothing wrong with them making a bit of money, right?

    But leveling is by no means arduous. It sounds like you haven't leveled in a while.
    I've leveled every but one class to 90. Are you by any chance American?

  15. #695
    Thanks to Jofe for reminding me of this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadblock View Post
    I'm reading all this back and forth and one thing keeps playing in my head.

    Blizzard is selling you the opposite of content.

    Read that again.
    A company is selling you a fucking void and you're thanking them for it.

    Capitalism truly rots the brain...
    If you want to get really technical Blizzard is selling you an option to skip straight to the most relevant content and allow you to experience the older stuff at your leisure. The only way it'd be a void is if the content was physically removed from the game.

  16. #696
    If they are going to make end game content the focus of the game and completely ignore older content then they need to offer previous expansions for free. You have to pay for Vanilla-MoP yet it's only about MoP?...I'd be kinds off put if I was new.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Thanks to Jofe for reminding me of this post.



    If you want to get really technical Blizzard is selling you an option to skip straight to the most relevant content and allow you to experience the older stuff at your leisure. The only way it'd be a void is if the content was physically removed from the game.
    Still. What's keeping them from purposely making eh content if people are willing to pay them to skip it? It's a win win for Bliz.

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexian View Post
    I thought this was just another free 90 with purchase thread then I read the part where they will be selling extra 90s...and people in the thread are still defending them.
    What is there to defend? They're offering a service. Personally I don't understand why someone would fork over money to skip over the best part of the game, but there's a sucker born every minute. If people are willing to pay for that, why shouldn't Blizzard sell it? We're talking about a game here. This isn't even anything new. Even many D&D campaigns came with pre-rolled higher level characters. I don't remember anyone throwing any hissy fits about it, and the last time I played I one of those I was a 15 year old kid playing with other 15 year old kids.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hexian View Post
    You really dont think this is a little too much...just a wee bit? Just cant admit it, can you?
    I know it's hard to understand that someone else's opinion can differ from your own, but just try. You think this is a little too much. Fine. When you run your very own MMO you can impose a strict no-pay-to-level policy and adhere to it. If you don't like the way Blizzard's running their business you're not obligated to purchase their products. That's about the extent of the control you have over them. Getting all worked up and railing about it isn't doing you any favors, and I promise the executives at Blizzard are still sleeping very well tonight on their humongous piles of cash. Let it go and I promise you'll feel better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexian View Post
    I just cant wait until Blizz crosses the line full blown and starts selling gear and other things just to read how people will defend them then.
    Again, there's nothing to defend. In fact, I'm pretty sure that Blizzard already sold some transmog gear a few patches back and somehow the World of Warcraft went on. The gear isn't real. It's a virtual item in a video game. If you had access to their servers you could bump some of the numbers on the item up and then it would be "better" or you could crank them down and they would be "worse." So what if they decide to sell ilevel 600 gear? You know that next expansion ilevel 600 gear will get you through the starter expansion areas and that's about it. That's how (not) valuable it is. If you want true rewards I suggest that you look for them outside of a video game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevt View Post
    If one day they start selling for example a hc end boss kill title - ok go moan quit the game and blabla. A mount/pet/partially lvled char in green gear are just another reason for "wow as it is now and not as it was in tbc" haters.
    You can already buy it with money if you really want to. Just purchase a pet or mount and re-sell it for in-game gold. This is perfectly permissible under Blizzard's ToU. Then take that gold and buy a carry from a high end guild that has already cleared SOO 14/14H and is now twiddling its thumbs on the PTR until WoD. But so what? That's why these "titles" are worth jack and shit. Always have been and always will be. If people want to throw their money away on meaningless crap let them. For me the game has always been about the experience, and you can't buy that with any amount of money.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  18. #698
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    If they are going to make end game content the focus of the game and completely ignore older content then they need to offer previous expansions for free. You have to pay for Vanilla-MoP yet it's only about MoP?...I'd be kinds off put if I was new.
    That's not far from what happens. The battlechest includes up to Cataclysm, and that costs almost nothing when you factor in the free month you get with it.

    The old content is there for those that enjoy it, kinda like Pet Battles or Archeology. You don't have to do those by any means, and there's a ton of depth to both systems that people may not know the first thing about. Same thing applies to, say, WotLK content right now. Leveling through, you probably have no idea about how much content there is with the Argent Tournament, or how to get Quel'delar, or the quests and dungeons that lead up to the storyline of Icecrown Citadel. You simply skip all of that stuff while leveling up, because you're not going to hang around and gear up for level 80 when all of the action is happening at level 90.

    Still. What's keeping them from purposely making eh content if people are willing to pay them to skip it? It's a win win for Bliz.
    Because you can't skip current content, only content that is already outdated and finished updating. They don't go back and make new content for level 1-85 right now. The content that exists there is the stuff that used to be current content a few years ago. When they make new content, they design it for the current expansion, and 95% of it is for max level.

  19. #699
    i think the real shame is that you're defending it because "i don't wanna level for the Nth time so let me skip it". this is the worst possible logic when it comes to game design. just skip it. your like a kid playing an RPG. you skip everything and then what happens? you dunno what to do. thats what. not that everyone would be affected like this, but i can definitely see it being a problem. that aside though, theres a larger underlying problem.

    blizz selling 90's like this, heirlooms, etc, its a way of saying they have essentially given up on designing leveling content. a game DESIGNER, has given up on DESIGNING PART OF THE GAME. and you all are advocating this. you all make me sick. rather than "how can we make the leveling process more intereting? less of a grind? a better way to teach players their class?" you all just say "SCREW IT".

    you wanna know one way to make leveling content more interesting? randomized events. not quests, not mobs, EVENTS. and i'm not talking large holiday stuff either. i mean events that can happen randomly out in the world of warcraft while leveling, perhaps a random large-scale attack between horde and alliance forces that your input can affect(in contested zones). and i don't mean outland PvP objective type things. i mean PvE fights. large amounts of regular mobs attacking other large groups of regular mobs. the side that has more after a certain amount of time wins that fight. this would confer a benefit to the winning side, and maybe even a detriment to the losing one.

    for non-contested zones there could be events that pit your faction against whatever monsters they may be facing at any one time. for example in eastern plaguelands you could have a large scale attack force heading from stratholme to lights hope, and its the players jobs to make sure it is either weakened or defeated by the time it gets there, or it can potentially cause very bad effects(like losing quest-givers or something), and beating them back could confer a buff of the light that increases damage against undead for until the next attack. of course there would be warnings to this and they would be geared for at-level players. maybe phase people of a higher level so that they can't participate in the events, to make it interesting. it would have to be realm(or connected realm) specific though. i realize that plaguelands is technically "contested" but aside from the duels that go on near thondoril river, theres not much PvP. its more of a neutral zone, and a good place to have an "everyone is equal, common enemy" type thing going, against the forces of stratholme. another thing is, there could be a different benefit to just "stalling them" for a certain amount of time, and "beating them back" entirely. perhaps some sort of achievement(that changes depending on the size of the force beat back), a trophy, a piece of gear, maybe a pair of mogg-able gloves that have the argent dawn insignia on the back of them, with a faint glow. of course, these events won't all be solo-able. some will require anyone in the area to help with it like stratholme. others will just be large scale fights that the player can participate in. of course the mobs will be somewhat hard to deal with so a single OP person can't just faceroll his way through the entire opposing army.

    and by randomized, i mean completely. not on a set timer. they have the rolling mechanic already that gives a seemingly random number between 1 and 100. use that to determine a time when said event will happen. its not that difficult a thing to manage honestly, once its set in motion. have a seperate roll for the type of event(depending on area's, certain ones may only get 1 kind of event). the third roll will decide the sizes of the forces that will fight(except for cases like the plaguelands ones, where lights-hope would most likely stay for the most part un-altered, aside from dialogue and what not). this would also mean tiered achievements based on the size of the forces that are fought. again lights hope chapel could have a "Beat back the undead scouts" and a "triumphed over the undead army" achievement for smaller and larger army sizes respectively. mind the forces won't change drastically in contested scenarios, as that would confer an un-fair advantage. its just that one might be slightly smaller or bigger then a set average. not by a lot but by a notice-able amount. for non-contested ones though, the army could range from anywhere from a few groups of 10 to a a few hundred undead. there could even be an option to teleport right to the combat, or rather, the starting point for your side in the conflict(again, for example, lights hope chapel), with a warning saying that the creatures in said area may or may not be a slightly higher level than you after the event is over with, and things return for the most part to normal.

    other ways would be to even out the leveling paces between expansions(and levels) so they don't take dramatic climbs in time needed, but still rise as you level. make dungeons a challenge again. then people wouldn't face roll them and get sick of them in a single sitting, and give them incentive to do quests as a faster alternative to dungeons, while dungeons hold better gear.


    there are PLENTY of ways to improve the leveling process. instead of improvement though, you are advocating turning a very large portion of the game into dead weight for a single continent that will become dead weight in a year or 2. you all make me sick to my stomach. those of you that don't advocate this god-awful mess of a catch-up mechanic, i salute you.
    Last edited by Somaldelhar; 2014-01-20 at 08:26 AM. Reason: elaboration and editing

  20. #700
    blizz selling 90's like this, heirlooms, etc, its a way of saying they have essentially given up on designing leveling content. a game DESIGNER, has given up on DESIGNING PART OF THE GAME. and you all are advocating this. you all make me sick.
    Before you throw up, think a little about the retarded things you are saying there. The leveling content until 90 IS ALREADY DESIGNED. Also it's already experienced by hmmmm 90% of the player base or more? They aren't designing it anymore, even the old world revamp was thrashed by a lot of people

    I still like to level alts, and I would never ever buy a fucking level 90 with the price of a new game or whatever price, BUT that doesn't mean many wouldn't prefer that way, and fuck me if I want to fuck up their gaming style by bitching about it.

    There is NOTHING to improve about the leveling process as long as you've experienced it multiple times already, unless they change it again. Not to mention those that hate the leveling by default and wouldn't do it even if it came bundled with a free blow job

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