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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearin View Post
    i think the nay-sayers are overreacting.

    How about a class specific proving ground for the insta 90 characters when they hit max level. You get the quest when you login (requires lvl 100) and directs you to an NPC.
    The proving ground will throw stuff at you that requires to use your class spells. Its required (as in gated) to queue for 5m HC/Scenarios/LFR.

    Thoughts?
    People would just give up and stop playing, even if it was ridiculously easy - A lot of players just aren't great and have no desire to try and get better.

  2. #322
    Dreadlord Cassidin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    *looks at LFR*

    ...

    *looks at the low level experience*

    Yeah.. I think the "learn while leveling-train" left the station a looong time ago.


    No it doesn't.
    Queue for dungeons and mash the [any key]. DPS from other players is so vastly overtuned that no one will notice you not performing anyway.
    I was in a dungeon on my latest levelled character while levelling recently and both the healer and tank went AFK.... we just carried on three dps and we completed finished the instance with no problem and no deaths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    It's not "pay to win" but it MOST CERTAINLY is step in that direction. Plus, blizzard purposely creates a "flavor of the month" class. Why do they do this? The answer is simple, people want to be Godlike and they will expend the necessary time to re-roll. When (not if, because I am 100% certain Blizzard will do this) they implement a level 90 w/e for purchase, they will exploit the flavor of the month concept to a whole new level.
    You believing this does not make it "MOST CERTAINLY" what you believe. Also I have no idea what you are referring to by the "Flavor of the month class" unless Blizzard are going to do a "For this week only, lvl90 priests are half price!!"

  3. #323
    If you pay for something and that something gives you an advantage, ANY advantage, over someone that doesn't pay, then it's PAY TO WIN. Simple as that.

  4. #324
    Dreadlord Cassidin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khalys View Post
    We're going to have a Free2Play Cash Shop that is just selling characters now and yet it's still a subscription game.

    Actually, scratch that. Even F2P MMOs such as TOR, Star Trek, TERA and Rift don't sell leveled up characters, at best they give a potion to speed it up, but don't let your credit card bypass the process entirely.
    And the only reason for that is that they want to get MORE of your money by making you buy SEVERAL potions to increase your levelling. It's nothing to do with not wanting to give you a high level character for money.... its more to do with them being able to make more money.

  5. #325
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    I don't think it's a bad thing but I agree with the people who say that new players should LEARN their class before going right ahead and having a 90 with a class they never used. The thing is though you could still learn about the class at 90 without running any dungeons to test them out and pissing people off. If the person is considerate enough, he/she would read each spell description and learn about what each ability does and then try them out on a target dummy. That's what I do every time I'm not familiar with a class' spell or ability. Since I'm pretty familiar with all the classes I was actually looking forward to a free 90 so that I could have one on my other server that I play on. But seeing how I guess you only get one if you pre-order the digital version, I probably won't be getting one.
    “Ever wonder why ice cubes taste so boring? It’s cuz you make ‘em outta stupid water, you bimbo! Put some fruit juice in there and freeze it into ice cubes, and put THAT in your milk.”
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  6. #326
    Dreadlord Cassidin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danman64 View Post
    The only thing that I'm really worried about is seeing the "DK Scenario" for every class at 90. As it is, whenever I get to that 58-60 range I fully expect to get at least one DK who has no idea whatsoever what he's doing. Sometimes it's fine, and you get a DK that does the most DPS in your group. But other times you get the ones who are trying to tank in frost presence while dual wielding.

    I guess only time will tell. Hopefully Blizzard figures out a way to teach boosted 90's what's expected of their class and how to do their basic rotation.
    Considering most levelling dungeons can be done without a tank at all these days...... That really matters why? They will learn in time unless they are really bad... in which case levelling 1-90 isnt going to make them less bad.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Cassidin View Post
    And the only reason for that is that they want to get MORE of your money by making you buy SEVERAL potions to increase your levelling. It's nothing to do with not wanting to give you a high level character for money.... its more to do with them being able to make more money.
    I wonder how many potions can you buy to even match the value of both a subscription AND the cost of an instant lv 90. Probably a lot since...you know....that subscription is pretty on-going.


    Seriously though, if the ability to buy a 90 goes live, then WoW should really go F2P.

  8. #328
    Dreadlord Cassidin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gowron View Post
    It's essentially Blizzard saying "we don't care about anything else except the current content, and neither should you".
    It's removing the last vestiges of WoW being an actual MMO as opposed to a everyone-to-the-last-raid-tier-quick queue-a-thon.

    It might get the 3 remaining people in the world that haven't tried WoW yet to play it for a month, and perhaps some that skipped MoP to return, but in the long run it's bad for everyone, some just don't realize it yet.
    It's bad why? Because Blizzard may not care for the previous expansion? Why is that particularly bad? The game now is very much the last expansion. Blizzard aren't selling WoW as such anymore they are selling "Mists of Pandaria" or "Warlords of Draenor" - the fact that you have to have the original game (and some other expansions) to PLAY the game they are selling is a moot point. Personally I think they will get to the point that the expansion they are selling will BE the game. It will be something like "Buy Warlords of Draenor and get all previous versions of WoW free!!" like "Buy Warcraft 3 now and get Warcraft 1 and 2 free!" There is no need to play previous versions to play the current one.

  9. #329
    Pandaren Monk
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    Free 90, then you have to lvl to 100 or 95 or what it is. So yeah, I dont see the problem. They will learn it in those lvls anyways.. Its not like you need to lvl a char from 1-90 to learn every aspect of it.
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  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    People would just give up and stop playing, even if it was ridiculously easy - A lot of players just aren't great and have no desire to try and get better.
    It feels that the people opposing the free 90 wants something like this. You could put gear rewards behind it, as an incentive.
    Also, the totally new players that a lot fear will ruin their LFR runs, wont even know any better.

    "oh i got this quest, lvl 100.." they hit 100, go deliver the quest and gets a new one with cool new gear as a reward. You think they would instantly think "fuck this shit, i want to raid, i quit instead"?

    if you already have several lvl 90 and is good at the game, you would clear the tests fast and get some gear to help with ilvl.

  11. #331
    Dreadlord Cassidin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orly View Post
    I wonder how many potions can you buy to even match the value of both a subscription AND the cost of an instant lv 90. Probably a lot since...you know....that subscription is pretty on-going.


    Seriously though, if the ability to buy a 90 goes live, then WoW should really go F2P.
    Just like my Telewest subscription should go "free to use" if they choose to sell me addons like "Sky Movies" or "Sky Sports"? I only paid the basic package why should I get these extras? How is this any different? I buy the basic package for WoW and if I want to (no NEED to) I can buy the optional extras. I may feel differently about it if they were selling end game gear... but dispite soooo many people claiming over the years that every time they added something to the store that this was "the slippery slope" or "the thin end of the wedge" they have not done this yet - and I do not believe they ever will... at least not until wow DOES become FTP which will probably be several years away.

  12. #332
    I see it as a toss up. For newer players who aren't very familiar with the game, it is bad, they should take the time to learn the class, even if leveling is super fast these days. At the minimum, if the player is new, there should be a restriction, at least one level 90, but the class they boost should not be level 1.

    But I've been playing since 2006, and I am currently on a break. I have multiple toons that I have spend plenty of time on, and for MoP I ditched my main (rogue) for a monk. I played that rogue as my main for almost the entirety of me time from when I started playing until MoP (aside from a few other classes to fit guild needs for the night, but the rogue always took precedence). If things are looking good for rogues this time around, I am going to want to play him again, but I don't want to take the time to go through the 85-90 stuff, I've already done it a few times for my monk, my farming toons, and I also played in the MoP beta before premade 90's came out. I don't want to go through it again, it's one reason I took a break, didn't feel like leveling another toon.

    I see both sides of the story, but there should be some restrictions to help new players learn. I know they have the "reintroducing spells" thing... but if I bumped up my rogue for example, I don't want to have that happen, I've played him long enough to know what each button does. That should be a toggle for people just bringing up an old main or alt.

  13. #333
    Dreadlord Cassidin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekerdud View Post
    I see it as a toss up. For newer players who aren't very familiar with the game, it is bad, they should take the time to learn the class, even if leveling is super fast these days. At the minimum, if the player is new, there should be a restriction, at least one level 90, but the class they boost should not be level 1.

    But I've been playing since 2006, and I am currently on a break. I have multiple toons that I have spend plenty of time on, and for MoP I ditched my main (rogue) for a monk. I played that rogue as my main for almost the entirety of me time from when I started playing until MoP (aside from a few other classes to fit guild needs for the night, but the rogue always took precedence). If things are looking good for rogues this time around, I am going to want to play him again, but I don't want to take the time to go through the 85-90 stuff, I've already done it a few times for my monk, my farming toons, and I also played in the MoP beta before premade 90's came out. I don't want to go through it again, it's one reason I took a break, didn't feel like leveling another toon.

    I see both sides of the story, but there should be some restrictions to help new players learn. I know they have the "reintroducing spells" thing... but if I bumped up my rogue for example, I don't want to have that happen, I've played him long enough to know what each button does. That should be a toggle for people just bringing up an old main or alt.
    I could see a "if you already have X number of max level toons you skip the introduction scenario, but if you are new... you have to complete it" as being a good thing.... However I suspect that it will simply be "if you create a new lvl90 - you have to do the introduction scenario". After all... you may not WANT to do it but its still going to be a LOT faster than levelling 1-90 and if you are an experienced player the introduction scenario (or whatever - im calling it a scenario for convenience) will probably take hardly any time at all.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Cassidin View Post
    Just like my Telewest subscription should go "free to use" if they choose to sell me addons like "Sky Movies" or "Sky Sports"? I only paid the basic package why should I get these extras? How is this any different? I buy the basic package for WoW and if I want to (no NEED to) I can buy the optional extras. I may feel differently about it if they were selling end game gear... but dispite soooo many people claiming over the years that every time they added something to the store that this was "the slippery slope" or "the thin end of the wedge" they have not done this yet - and I do not believe they ever will... at least not until wow DOES become FTP which will probably be several years away.
    How is it any different? Lol. Do you compete on tv channels with anyone? Because in wow, if you didn't realize it by now, you are competing with others. That's why it's a game. Furthermore, reaching 90 IS part of the "basic package", because everyone can and does reach 90 in time. "Sky Movies" is something u dont get unless u pay extra. Lvl 90 isnt.

    Stupid analogy btw.

    Edit: Here's a better analogy. Say i have a football team, right? If i can pay 1mil of <currency> i can get my team from 3rd league to 2nd with no games played. Or from 16th place to 5th. Sounds fair to you?
    Last edited by Orly; 2014-01-20 at 03:55 PM.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Orly View Post
    Here's a better analogy. Say i have a football team, right? If i can pay 1mil of <currency> i can get my team from 3rd league to 2nd with no games played. Or from 16th place to 5th. Sounds fair to you?
    Have they changed the meaning of "better" and no ones told me?

    Forgive me if I'm wrong but the position of a team in a league says something about the quality of the team, where as getting to level 90 says nothing about the skill of the player...

    Also wouldn't the other teams in the league have a problem with people suddenly jumping ahead of them? Something that simply isn't the case with levelling.
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooboy View Post
    Have they changed the meaning of "better" and no ones told me?

    Forgive me if I'm wrong but the position of a team in a league says something about the quality of the team, where as getting to level 90 says nothing about the skill of the player...

    Also wouldn't the other teams in the league have a problem with people suddenly jumping ahead of them? Something that simply isn't the case with levelling.
    Get back on this when you've killed an 76 on your 45. Until you do, my point stands.

    And yes, the other teams would have a huge problem. Same as many people here have a problem with pay-to-win insta 90s for sale. That's the point.

    In football there are some who only care about 1st league and the top 5-6 places, and there are some who care about the whole bracket. I'm sure the former won't care about a random team they never heard of pay their way from 3rd to 2nd league, but the latter? Not to mention the ones competing.

    I'm still lvling and i'm not the only one. Those who have a ton of 90s and won't start an alt ever again? They obviously don't give a fuck. But they shouldn't act like their opinion > all, or their opinion is the only one that matters just because they are at the far end of a game.
    Last edited by Orly; 2014-01-20 at 04:43 PM.

  17. #337
    It isn't really about the 90 at all. It's about the trend it sets due to the slippery slope.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldNSilence View Post
    It isn't really about the 90 at all. It's about the trend it sets due to the slippery slope.
    The same slope everyone denied it even exists when they introduced mounts for cash, might i add.

  19. #339
    Dreadlord Cassidin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orly View Post
    Stupid analogy btw.

    Edit: Here's a better analogy. Say i have a football team, right? If i can pay 1mil of <currency> i can get my team from 3rd league to 2nd with no games played. Or from 16th place to 5th. Sounds fair to you?
    Stupid analogy simply because you don't agree with it. In case YOU didn't realise it, in WoW you DONT compete to see who has the most characters. Having more characters does NOT give you an unfair advantage unless you consider the advantage of stroking your epeen that you have more characters than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orly View Post
    Furthermore, reaching 90 IS part of the "basic package", because everyone can and does reach 90 in time. "Sky Movies" is something u dont get unless u pay extra. Lvl 90 isnt.
    Ok then...... part of my package includes one TIVO box.... I can pay extra to have an additional TIVO box... it doesnt make me able to watch TV faster - I cant watch more programs than anyone else - it just makes it more convenient because other members of the family can watch other programmes in other rooms. Having the channels I subscribe to is part of my package.... but if I get a second TIVO I still only get the same channels... so should to second box be free because its still the channels that are part of my basic sub?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldNSilence View Post
    It isn't really about the 90 at all. It's about the trend it sets due to the slippery slope.
    Unfortunately... this "slope" exists only in the mind of the paranoid.

  20. #340
    Stood in the Fire Zolascius's Avatar
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    Unfortunately... this "slope" exists only in the mind of the paranoid.
    If your definition of 'paranoid' is 'logical', then sure.

    The cash cow mentality has been going on for a few years now, Blizzard are just being more and more obvious about it as time goes on.

    Of course it's going to be impossible to convince someone with 15 capped characters of anything negative.
    Players these days just want the world to be their whored-out oyster.
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