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  1. #21
    start inspecting better people. you're looking @ the wrong people, thats the only explanation.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Northern Finland
    Posts
    462
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Sco/advanced

    Even Sco from Method going for "unoptimal" build with a mix of avoid+mastery. Unoptimal in the way that they both diminish each others benefits. (You avoid 50%, the rest 50% is then blocked if you have a shield block up)

    I think Scos went this way because hes getting TOO MANY procs for revenge from avoidance. Im myself full avoidance atm with 18k parry 10k dodge rating.. The rotation gets a bit dull: SS, Rev, Rev, Rev, SS, Rev, Rev, Rev, Hey i gotta keep Sunders up! Dev, SS, Rev, Rev, Rev.... etc. Theres so many Rev cooldown resets that i get less chances to Devastate for SS cd resets.

    Its tons of rage but it gets dull to play with "too much" avoidance. Im considering backing a bit from dodge to say, mastery or stamina. Its not always Rev every global but theres more and more of these boring streaks lately with high avoidance Just not gonna stack any more avoidance ontop of this amount.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Sco/advanced

    Even Sco from Method going for "unoptimal" build with a mix of avoid+mastery. Unoptimal in the way that they both diminish each others benefits. (You avoid 50%, the rest 50% is then blocked if you have a shield block up)

    I think Scos went this way because hes getting TOO MANY procs for revenge from avoidance. Im myself full avoidance atm with 18k parry 10k dodge rating.. The rotation gets a bit dull: SS, Rev, Rev, Rev, SS, Rev, Rev, Rev, Hey i gotta keep Sunders up! Dev, SS, Rev, Rev, Rev.... etc. Theres so many Rev cooldown resets that i get less chances to Devastate for SS cd resets.

    Its tons of rage but it gets dull to play with "too much" avoidance. Im considering backing a bit from dodge to say, mastery or stamina. Its not always Rev every global but theres more and more of these boring streaks lately with high avoidance Just not gonna stack any more avoidance ontop of this amount.
    1. That's not how the combat table works. First it rolls hit or avoid, if it's a hit, then it rolls whether it's a block or not. Considering shield block is probably up, that's already a yes. Finally, with as much mastery as Sco has, it rolls whether or not it's a crit block, which 81+% of the time for him, it is. He still has high enough avoidance to get a decent benefit from Riposte, and is still mitigating more damage when he's able to crit block. Guessing why he's gearing that way would be silly, you should ask him.
    2. Just because YOU are hitting revenge when SS isn't up doesn't mean everyone else accidentally avoids devastate.
    3. Following what top tanks have on their armory without knowing the exact reasoning for why they geared that way is dangerous.

  4. #24
    I'm a monk, but have been kinda delving into prot warrior a bit.

    It was my impression that having some amount of stam is desirable since shields barrier's calculation uses some portion of stam. That means for instance, that the stam leg enchant and such are still preferred. However, gem wise, hit/exp, dodge, parry and mastery are more desirable.

    As far as monks, the earlier assertion that crit is a monk's best defensive and offensive stat is entirely incorrect. Crit on a monk past about 45% does almost nothing for defense on most fights (any fight with tank switches). And keep in mind that's a relatively low crit rating since agility gives crit. Of course, even if you're gearing defensively, stam isn't a great choice.

    Lastly, avoidance and mastery do not diminish each other's effects. I won't do the math here yet again, but you can calculate it yourself by switching the same amount of rating between avoidance and mastery and then calculating overall damage taken.
    Last edited by tachycardias; 2014-01-27 at 04:26 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by tachycardias View Post
    I'm a monk, but have been kinda delving into prot warrior a bit.

    It was my impression that having some amount of stam is desirable since shields barrier's calculation uses some portion of stam. That means for instance, that the stam leg enchant and such are still preferred. However, gem wise, hit/exp, dodge, parry and mastery are more desirable.

    As far as monks, the earlier assertion that crit is a monk's best defensive and offensive stat is entirely incorrect. Crit on a monk past about 45% does almost nothing for defense on most fights (any fight with tank switches). And keep in mind that's a relatively low crit rating since agility gives crit. Of course, even if you're gearing defensively, stam isn't a great choice.

    Lastly, avoidance and mastery do not diminish each other's effects. I won't do the math here yet again, but you can calculate it yourself by switching the same amount of rating between avoidance and mastery and then calculating overall damage taken.
    For warriors, stam is really best represented in trinkets. That said, you are right about Shield Barrier scaling, but vengeance makes up for much more than stamina does, especially in 25H.

  6. #26
    Go crit. Keeps you on your toes, more dps, it isn't a boring rotation, and you have a bunch of rage to play with. It's a win/win/win/win/win. I play a Crit Brewmaster and Crit Warrior (about to be 12/14H) and I love both of the playstyles to death. I just don't feel like 10 man damage is enough to force anyone to go into any sort of defensive/avoidance stat unless it benefits your DPS. Staying alive in 10 man is easy if you kill the stuff quick

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RuneeBH View Post
    Go crit. Keeps you on your toes, more dps, it isn't a boring rotation, and you have a bunch of rage to play with. It's a win/win/win/win/win. I play a Crit Brewmaster and Crit Warrior (about to be 12/14H) and I love both of the playstyles to death. I just don't feel like 10 man damage is enough to force anyone to go into any sort of defensive/avoidance stat unless it benefits your DPS. Staying alive in 10 man is easy if you kill the stuff quick
    Only worth it if you have full Crit/Mastery, Crit/Hit or Crit/Expertise. Easier to just get Dodge/Parry stuff and use Dodge as your dump stat.

  8. #28
    I feel you. I inspected uhhh..Fagatha (Midwinters warr tank) before I started gearing my warrior - and saw that he was crit/mastery, which was awesome to me, since I never considered it, so I started gearing for it from like 530+, so my toon is 563 now and nicely itemized in dps gear so it actually works for me. For most people it's too late to go crit now, unfortunately.

  9. #29
    The DPS gain in full BiS crit build you gain around 4% damage over going with a avoidance build, but on the other hand you take more than twice the amount of damage and your TMI is around 100 times higher. The crit build works, sure, but it's far from optimal.

  10. #30
    That makes sense I suppose, I don't mind trading avoidance and revenge spam boredom for increased dps. But, I haven't done any of the high-end fights on my warrior before, so maybe that damage taken starts to become more apparent, but I wouldn't know. For an alt, I enjoy crit, but if it was my full time main, I suppose giving up 4% damage and getting more survival is worth it.

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