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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Agraynel View Post
    What is especially bad with Symbiosis - it made strong specs in PvP stronger while making average and poor PvP specs even weaker.

    Retribution Paladin Wrath comes to mind. I think adding Wrath for Rets was a manifestation of GC's mockery and a way to indicate where in rated PvP our place is.
    I will never understand giving wrath to paladins. Wtf are they suppose to do with it? Crappy damage and has a long cast time and it is nature damage..... I can only assume they are having a laugh at paladins expense.

    Who needs to cast judgement or exorcism when you can cast wrath that takes 1.5 seconds and does half the damage. Awesome!!
    Last edited by lockdown1; 2014-01-19 at 11:07 PM.

  2. #62
    Warchief MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agraynel View Post
    What is especially bad with Symbiosis - it made strong specs in PvP stronger while making average and poor PvP specs even weaker.

    Retribution Paladin Wrath comes to mind. I think adding Wrath for Rets was a manifestation of GC's mockery and a way to indicate where in rated PvP our place is.
    How exactly is symbiosis making a poor spec weaker? If anything it stays the same with the addition of a worthless talent. It hardly gets weaker
    Last edited by MrApple; 2014-01-19 at 10:40 PM.
    Heard on the forums regarding Warriors in 5.4;
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    YOU'RE the problem if you're having trouble with warriors, not warriors being overpowered.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockdown1 View Post
    I will never understand giving wrath to paladins. Wtf are they suppose to do with it? Crappy damage and has a long cast time and it is nature damage..... I can only assume they are having a laugh at paladins expense.

    Who needs to cast judgement or exorcism when you can cast wrath that takes 1.5 seconds and does half the damage. Awesome!!
    I think the reason it was given to them is because wrath is technically a holy spell lorewise. What can you use it for? When you are snared.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    I think the reason it was given to them is because wrath is technically a holy spell lorewise. What can you use it for? When you are snared.
    You do not play a paladin do you?

    Snared? Use Blessing of freedom
    Snared again? Use your second blessing of freedom (Talented)
    Snared again? Use Judgement, instant
    Still snared? use Exorcism
    Still snared? use emancipate (removes all snares)

    At no point would there be justification for using Wrath.
    Last edited by lockdown1; 2014-01-20 at 02:10 AM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    How exactly is symbiosis making a poor spec weaker? If anything it stays the same with the addition of a worthless talent. It hardly gets weaker
    It's made weaker by a good spec, such as Frost Mage getting Healing Touch or Warlocks getting Rejuvenation while say a Ret gets Wrath and you can't actually use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by lockdown1 View Post
    You do not play a paladin do you?

    Snared? Use Blessing of freedom
    Snared again? Use your second blessing of freedom (Talented)
    Snared again Use Judgement, instant
    Still snared? use Exorcism
    Still snared? use emancipate (removes all snares)

    At no point would there be justification for using Wrath.
    Pretty much. As I said, if it did anything at all to boost your damage output, such as giving Holy Power or doing Holy damage so it scales with Inq, it wouldn't be as pointless as it is now. Even in PvE you just don't use it. The only use I've found for it was killing Cinder on Timeless Isle as a Rangadin because the entire Island hates Melee.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  6. #66
    I main Druid and completely agree that some of the ridiculous Symbiosis spells like Ice Block, Dispersion, Cloak of Shadows, Deterrence, Intimidating Shout, Unending Resolve and Divine Shield probably shouldn't be available, but, the problem with Symbiosis is that we're so late into the implementation of the spell that each spec has been balanced around the fact that it has that symbiosis available.

    Ferals without Bubble/Dispersion would be free kills, Druids without Icebound/Block/Port would be ridiculously easy to swap to and Boomkins without Unending Resolve or Cloak would have no real defensive cooldown at all.

    I'm fine with Symbiosis being banned in Arenas, but only if -all- Resto Druids got an immunity of some sort to compensate, and -all- feral druids got an extra major defensive CD (or bear form nerfs undone).

    Overall, I love Symbiosis. I think it's an awesome spell and I love the idea of the possibilities that it could open up. I wish that I could take Leap of Faith as Resto and not have it completely gimp my survivability and I wish i could take Play Dead as Feral and avoid CC with it, without opening myself up to being trained and dying in 30 seconds.

    The depth of this spell and the pre-game decisions it brings are two aspects that really appeal to me, and I really hope that in WoD they shuffle the spells around so that there is more decision making involved. Picking between Leap of Faith and Demonic Circle: Teleport is far more fun than picking between Ice Block and Cleanse, but the only way this can be achieved is if they buff the specs and nerf the symbiosis outliers.

  7. #67
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    OP is right though. Symbiosis creates overpowered combinations for Druids and under powered combinations. It should be removed and replaced with a proper defensive cooldown to promote better comp choice and balance.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggli View Post
    I main Druid and completely agree that some of the ridiculous Symbiosis spells like Ice Block, Dispersion, Cloak of Shadows, Deterrence, Intimidating Shout, Unending Resolve and Divine Shield probably shouldn't be available, but, the problem with Symbiosis is that we're so late into the implementation of the spell that each spec has been balanced around the fact that it has that symbiosis available.

    Ferals without Bubble/Dispersion would be free kills, Druids without Icebound/Block/Port would be ridiculously easy to swap to and Boomkins without Unending Resolve or Cloak would have no real defensive cooldown at all.

    I'm fine with Symbiosis being banned in Arenas, but only if -all- Resto Druids got an immunity of some sort to compensate, and -all- feral druids got an extra major defensive CD (or bear form nerfs undone).

    Overall, I love Symbiosis. I think it's an awesome spell and I love the idea of the possibilities that it could open up. I wish that I could take Leap of Faith as Resto and not have it completely gimp my survivability and I wish i could take Play Dead as Feral and avoid CC with it, without opening myself up to being trained and dying in 30 seconds.

    The depth of this spell and the pre-game decisions it brings are two aspects that really appeal to me, and I really hope that in WoD they shuffle the spells around so that there is more decision making involved. Picking between Leap of Faith and Demonic Circle: Teleport is far more fun than picking between Ice Block and Cleanse, but the only way this can be achieved is if they buff the specs and nerf the symbiosis outliers.
    I agree with you, boomkins have barksin and um..barksin. I mean offheals are nice and eveything but...it is just not as effective in a team fight.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

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