SoO Nerfs, infuriating.

[Frozendekay]

for the record, we don't plan on farming easier bosses or anything like that. If need be, we WILL smash our faces into 565 on later bosses - noone is currently over 565 in our team.

You're already 564 as a group and it WILL go up substantially before you reach the last bosses considering you raid 6 hours a week. Can guarantee you'll be 570+ when you hit siegecrafter, probably 575 when you kill Garrosh.

And if you don't want a blanket nerf affecting you then you'd better get in there quick, if you wait 3 months or more theres a good chance one will be in.

[miffy23]

You're already 564 as a group and it WILL go up substantially before you reach the last bosses considering you raid 6 hours a week. Can guarantee you'll be 570+ when you hit siegecrafter, probably 575 when you kill Garrosh.

And if you don't want a blanket nerf affecting you then you'd better get in there quick, if you wait 3 months or more theres a good chance one will be in.

Hopefully it's the same kind of turn on/off buff as in previour final raid tiers, and not a base nerf. I'd be fine with that with us keeping it off.
But i doubt our group will hit 570 since I don't plan on farming any bosses.

[Gilian]

Tell me about it...

I also don't understand why these nerfs are needed. You still got months to kill these bosses.

[thunterman]

Tell me about it...

I also don't understand why these nerfs are needed. You still got months to kill these bosses.

WoD beta is starting up, Alpha whould have been going on for months now... I wouldn't be so sure. Allot of speculation leads to a April/May release.

[Deleted]

I appreciate the elaboration, it actually does put my mind to rest a bit. As long as they don't force a blanket nerf on us, i'll be content.

edit: for the record, we don't plan on farming easier bosses or anything like that. If need be, we WILL smash our faces into 565 on later bosses - noone is currently over 565 in our team.

Our alt's are near 570 ilvl without even 1 time got tunnel gear from 25-man.
And you say nerf~
Well you already got
A meta gem=nerf
A legendary cloack= Nerf and from the other viable option 580 ilvl 2x upgrade wf cloack is near a 10% nerf since simply is a 10% dps boost++ cloack/stats/proc wise~.
And you have already upgrade your gear in every slot by 2x upgrades .
So this is 16 ilvl += Already you have pass Soo by 1+ tier in terms of gear since each tier has 13/ilvl~
Those 6/14 to 10/14 hc guilds will not progress at all until SoO is over. They know and everyone know's.

This is simply @@@.....about people complain about nerf's when they already hitt a bis ilvl.
Wonder seeying guilds with 577 ilvl and with 10/14 hc... Do they need more gear in order to do progress......???? I doubt.
Wonder seeying guilds hitting Siegecrafter with biss gear for 1 month~ Simply they dont do progress they simply dont have the skill=-
End.
People had enought time of progress. If you cannot do progress in 4 months + and complain that you have another route of doing the progress than you play a wrong game.
Near 5 months in a game is far enough of doing the progress unless you wanna spend 2/3 years doing same bosses until the bosses gonna be bored and say ok let's go afk so this guys with every piece of gear 580 ilvl can do ~~progress...

[Darksoldierr]

We've almost got a stable group, and now that we have, nerfs.

If your guild falls aparts because of these nerfs, i wouldn't call that stable.

[Damerflinn]

I don't necessarily disagree with the OP, but at the same time I don't care either. I understand the frustration of people that haven't been able to kill it before nerfs, but at the same time, blizzard usually does these nerfs to keep the overall progression at a decent curve, so I think that it's fine.

[miffy23]

Our alt's are near 570 ilvl without even 1 time got tunnel gear from 25-man.
And you say nerf~
Well you already got
A meta gem=nerf
A legendary cloack= Nerf and from the other viable option 580 ilvl 2x upgrade wf cloack is near a 10% nerf since simply is a 10% dps boost++ cloack/stats/proc wise~.
And you have already upgrade your gear in every slot by 2x upgrades .
So this is 16 ilvl += Already you have pass Soo by 1+ tier in terms of gear since each tier has 13/ilvl~
Those 6/14 to 10/14 hc guilds will not progress at all until SoO is over. They know and everyone know's.

This is simply @@@.....about people complain about nerf's when they already hitt a bis ilvl.
Wonder seeying guilds with 577 ilvl and with 10/14 hc... Do they need more gear in order to do progress......???? I doubt.
Wonder seeying guilds hitting Siegecrafter with biss gear for 1 month~ Simply they dont do progress they simply dont have the skill=-
End.
People had enought time of progress. If you cannot do progress in 4 months + and complain that you have another route of doing the progress than you play a wrong game.
Near 5 months in a game is far enough of doing the progress unless you wanna spend 2/3 years doing same bosses until the bosses gonna be bored and say ok let's go afk so this guys with every piece of gear 580 ilvl can do ~~progress...

You keep assuming that guilds like mine are wiping hundreds of times and farming normal 20 times over, or farming 1-2 heroic bosses 100 times over. This is not the case.
Furthermore, Meta gem and cloak were available to most heroic raiders almost from heroic release of SoO, save the few that had really bad drop luck. That's not really an argument. Overall ilvl may be a bit higher, but that's about it.

[Atrea]

The only way it even remotely makes a difference is if your guild/raid group/whatever's progress is meant as some form of dick measuring contest.

Seriously, it's asinine.

[Osmeric]

You guys just don't listen. A lot of guilds are just as capable as any others,
but they don't raid at a frantic progress race pace.

I'm sure most guilds that have failed to achieve their goals have excuses and rationalizations, just like you do.

Maybe you should try listening to yourself.

[Deleted]

You keep assuming that guilds like mine are wiping hundreds of times and farming normal 20 times over, or farming 1-2 heroic bosses 100 times over. This is not the case.

I'm not assuming anything but .
Every guild has a setup from the people to the how many hour they're raiding.
Complaining right now near after 5 month of progress that simply you hit 10/14 hc and you dont wanna do the bosses on nerf/size is doubt.
Is like icc/Ds You had the choice of doing the bosses with zero nerf still= Nobody has done it.
Is simply show that people tha complain about nerf are !@$%. Guild's like yours that dont have a steady progress are the 1st that are falling apart.

How do i know?
See Cataclysm until now. Most of the mid~way guilds are the 1st that gonna disband and simply is unhealthy for the game. You can keep up saying that the nerf are gonna have an impact on you guild/??? Btw what is gonna be the impact that nerfs gonna apply on your guild??

[miffy23]

I'm sure most guilds that have failed to achieve their goals have excuses and rationalizations, just like you do.

Maybe you should try listening to yourself.

How is that an excuse or a rationalization? We don't care diddlysquat for our progress rank, we just want to experience the roughly same difficulty fight, minus slightly higher ilvl. You're trying desperately to paint me as somehow upset about my guild's slow progress - i'm not. I'm upset that I might not face the same fights for no reason than bad players being catered to. We are not bad, we are simply casual.

Try as hard as you like, but the majority of raiders don't give twopence worth about realm rankings or progress race, they just want to enjoy the hardest content they can muster with their team.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not assuming anything but .
Every guild has a setup from the people to the how many hour they're raiding.
Complaining right now near after 5 month of progress that simply you hit 10/14 hc and you dont wanna do the bosses on nerf/size is doubt.
Is like icc/Ds You had the choice of doing the bosses with zero nerf still= Nobody has done it.
Is simply show that people tha complain about nerf are !@$%. Guild's like yours that dont have a steady progress are the 1st that are falling apart.

How do i know?
See Cataclysm until now. Most of the mid~way guilds are the 1st that gonna disband and simply is unhealthy for the game. You can keep up saying that the nerf are gonna have an impact on you guild/??? Btw what is gonna be the impact that nerfs gonna apply on your guild??

You seem to be mistaking me for the OP. I'm not. Noone is dropping raiding, nor is my guild going to fall apart, not even if we got a 30% flat nerf. I was voicing my own personal opinion on how I don't like nerfs to heroic content late in the game. It should stay untouched - if some don't manage it with 500 wipes, then they shouldn't. That doesn't mean you have to nerf it down so others that haven't actually had a chance at doing it properly yet get robbed of that. As I said before, there are 4 difficulty settings by now, plenty of room for everyone. No need to cater on heroic difficulty in my opinion.

[KaPe]

Meta gems are part of nerfs now? Are we still in 5.2 or something? Did I miss something and somehow any serious heroic guild didn't have full meta + cloaks during the first week of raiding?

[miffy23]

Meta gems are part of nerfs now? Are we still in 5.2 or something? Did I miss something and somehow any serious heroic guild didn't have full meta + cloaks during the first week of raiding?

They did, which is what I pointed out.

[Deleted]

we just want to experience the roughly same difficulty fight, minus slightly higher ilvl

That is sadly mutually exclusive though.

For example on Thok, my friends guild is currently progressig Thok, they got 572 averege ilvl. When we killed Thok we only had 553 (alliance guild), which as far as I can tell from WoWprogress is the lowest in the world of any alliance (and horde?) guild. We spent about 100 wipes on Thok which I bet a lot of guilds now feel is "average" and okay. The difference is, if we would have had 572 ilvl we would highly likely have one shot thok, at most we would have spent 3-4 wipes on it.

The fight is just two differet worlds with 20 item level difference.

You cant simply compare your amount of wipes for that reason, given the average item level of the guilds that progress Thok now, we would just have stomped the encounter down like it was flex or something.

[miffy23]

That is sadly mutually exclusive though.

For example on Thok, my friends guild is currently progressig Thok, they got 572 averege ilvl. When we killed Thok we only had 553 (alliance guild), which as far as I can tell from WoWprogress is the lowest in the world of any alliance (and horde?) guild. We spent about 100 wipes on Thok which I bet a lot of guilds now feel is "average" and okay. The difference is, if we would have had 572 ilvl we would highly likely have one shot thok, at most we would have spent 3-4 wipes on it.

The fight is just two differet worlds with 20 item level difference.

That's nice for you, and i'm sure you're very proud of it, as you should be. But considering only <normal difficulty average ilvl to be the "real" difficulty setting on a heroic fight isn't exactly inclusive to others either. You're kind of putting up a pedestal that noone else after you can reach anyway, so why bother.
Heroic fights are roughly tuned to be feasible between 550-560, and ofc the higher you go the easier it gets. That says little about flat out nerfs or changes to the encounter apart from gear increase.

Your accomplishments are fine, but for all intents and purposes, heroic wasn't supposed to be tackled in 553 gear by the average heroic raiding guild. 560++ is just fine for difficulty. You can't really compare the 0.01% to casual heroic raiders like ourselves.

And for the record, we're not asking for the bleeding edge experience. We're not that good, fact of the matter is 99.99% of raiders aren't a) that good and b) that dedicated, most importantly. We just want the fights unchanged, the rest is up to the raiders themselves anyway.

[Delaios]

Still not convinced that nerfs are in any way needed, when everyone can see content now. Why is Blizzard obsessed with everyone being able to clear HC?

It's not really about totally clearing the instance, but about getting guilds to progress more. If guilds are having severe progress issues on a handful of fights, you're much more likely to see people getting burned out, stop playing and unsubbing, than to see them magically improving their play. Especially at the end of an expansion, where player activity in general drops.

[Sting]

There has to be a cutoff somewhere. I'm sorry to be the one to break the bad news, but if you couldn't kill a boss before the nerfs you simply weren't good enough or didn't spend enough time on it. I'm not trying to insult you or anything but that's the cold hard truth.

[miffy23]

It's not really about totally clearing the instance, but about getting guilds to progress more. If guilds are having severe progress issues on a handful of fights, you're much more likely to see people getting burned out, stop playing and unsubbing, than to see them magically improving their play. Especially at the end of an expansion, where player activity in general drops.

If people unsub over their failure at raiding, or their teams fall apart, or whatever, then either the game or heroic is simply not for them. Heroic should really be the last bastion here in a sort of way, without having to be a day one competitor for world first. That's my opinion. Ofc you can say that ship sailed long ago in terms of progressive nerfs, but I really thought they were turning it around a bit.

[Deleted]

I read 10 pages of this and i stoped

I really dont see where is the problem. From what i read about the nerf and what i understood from the typed blue post is not some kind of flat nerf over the board on all abiliries or health or etc by X% or something like that. All i saw is some minor tweaks on the raidwide damage going on during the encounter and the reason why is also there - 10 man groups have fewer cooldowns than 25 man to help them handle the healing/survaiving during the fight.

Now think about it - why the hell Blizzard will do such nerf this late in the tier?!? Its the simple reason that the succesion rate in SoO is smaller than they thought it will be. Also somewhat the 25man succes ration is higher compared to 10man... Then blizzard ask themself "Why the hell?!?". They do analize the data they can get from everywhere and bam - this is the solution to make it last 3 encounters before Garrosh not so punishing, yet again leave them as challenging and hard.

Also another thing that bugs me is why people are so frustrated that some bosses get tweaked?!? Its not the prenerf, so the kill will still count as a such - prenerf kill. All on all it will be a kill. This is all that matter people!