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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    You've killed all of SoO hc within less than 4 months. Why should other guilds not be able to do it within 6 more? A good group will be completely fine with or without the nerfs. These statements are stupid, as you don't know what stopped the other groups from progressing.
    A guild that is at 10/14H has completed about 30% of SoO. Presuming they will continue in the same pace, It will take them about another 8-9 months to complete the tier, at which point WoD will have been out a long long time ago.

    For a vast majority of guilds that are not yet 12/14H, WoD will be out before they get to garrosh. Of course there will be exceptions, some guilds started late, havent raided etc, whatever the reason can be, but that does not change the fact that those are exceptions. If you got even lower to about 8/14H, those guilds have about 24 months of progression to go in the in their current pace to reach Garrosh.
    A guild that have been actively playing and progressing since SoO came out will not clear the content without major nerfs unless they are currently 12/14 or above.

    People really underestimate how much easier the first part of SoO is than the later parts. If you are not breezing through the first bosses then you will not down Garrosh. Period.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2014-01-20 at 06:37 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    My guild is a Heroic guild as well. 14/14 H is very likely possible for us by the end of the expansion, but our progression is pretty slow. We know that Blizzard hits raids with nerfs after a few months. We know that if we clear slowly, we won't have pre-nerf kills on some of the bosses. I don't see why you're pissed off or didn't see this coming a mile away.

    There are sub-tiers of heroic raiders.

    Bleeding edge raiders who clear the whole instance in the time before the nerfs.
    Heroic raiders who take longer for a full clear and have post-nerf kills.

    It's doesn't mean you're not in the top 5% of PvE players in this game, dude.
    That's the thing. There are some raiders who maybe/might/could/would have cleared H Garry pre-nerf if they'd had more time. These folks are pissed because now there is little/no delineation between those that needed the Thok/Blackfuse/Paragons adjustments and those that didn't. They want to be closer to the .23% than to the 2%, and in their minds it's Blizz's fault, not theirs.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    That's the thing. There are some raiders who maybe/might/could/would have cleared H Garry pre-nerf if they'd had more time. These folks are pissed because now there is little/no delineation between those that needed the Thok/Blackfuse/Paragons adjustments and those that didn't. They want to be closer to the .23% than to the 2%, and in their minds it's Blizz's fault, not theirs.
    I would love to see guilds saying "We would have killed 'end tier boss' if we had more time, but Blizzard decided to release a new raid tier, that's so unfair!"
    Oh, wait, I've already seen some of this.
    Warrior soloing spreadsheet.

    Ittle Dew (Any%): 12:13
    Super Meat Boy (Any%): 21:50

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    A guild that is at 10/14H has completed about 30% of SoO. Presuming they will continue in the same pace, It will take them about another 8-9 months to complete the tier, at which point WoD will have been out a long long time ago.

    For a vast majority of guilds that are not yet 12/14H, WoD will be out before they get to garrosh. Of course there will be exceptions, some guilds started late, havent raided etc, whatever the reason can be, but that does not change the fact that those are exceptions. If you got even lower to about 8/14H, those guilds have about 24 months of progression to go in the in their current pace to reach Garrosh.
    A guild that have been actively playing and progressing since SoO came out will not clear the content without major nerfs unless they are currently 12/14 or above.

    People really underestimate how much easier the first part of SoO is than the later parts. If you are not breezing through the first bosses then you will not down Garrosh. Period.
    You yourself stated that your guild downed heroic thok with a much lower ilvl than those getting him down today, and fighting him at 575 is vastly different than fighting him at 555, which is something I agree with. So what makes you think it's literally gonna take 24 months for a 8/14H guild to get past content with their gear being as high as it is? There are already a couple of guilds who are by no means bleeding-edge who've gotten past Siegecrafter already....a lot of it due to the fact that they have 575 gear.

  5. #465
    The Patient Rangz's Avatar
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    Are there any numbers out yet? I heard someone say something about a tweet saying that the Thok nerfs are at about 10%, where do I find this? If its true, most resonable would be ~10% to all the things they are nerfing.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowfeather View Post
    You yourself stated that your guild downed heroic thok with a much lower ilvl than those getting him down today, and fighting him at 575 is vastly different than fighting him at 555, which is something I agree with. So what makes you think it's literally gonna take 24 months for a 8/14H guild to get past content with their gear being as high as it is? There are already a couple of guilds who are by no means bleeding-edge who've gotten past Siegecrafter already....a lot of it due to the fact that they have 575 gear.
    Pure statistics from a friend of mine that made a graph of how much time it takes on average to down each boss. After 8/14H, guilds are roughly 17% into SoO, at 10/14H roughly 33% into SoO (speaking about time spent / time remaining). Taking that into consideration if they continue in their current pace it would take that insane amount of time. Of course there will be exceptions to that rules, mileage will vary and further nerfs are likely to happen. A lot of guilds will never be able to kill Garrosh either way. As I mentioned earlier in I believe this thread, a friends guild is at Thok currently with 572 item level average, and they are struggling with the dps check, heck shouldnt say struggling, they cant beat the dps check. If they cant beat the dps check on Thok with 572, they will never beat Garrosh even with full 580 unless they replace people.

    On average, it almost takes longer time to kill Siegecrafter than it takes to kill the previous 11 bosses together.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2014-01-21 at 11:23 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Rangvald View Post
    Are there any numbers out yet? I heard someone say something about a tweet saying that the Thok nerfs are at about 10%, where do I find this? If its true, most resonable would be ~10% to all the things they are nerfing.
    I've been looking around as well, but can't seem to find anything. Would appriciate a source!

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by CrippleshoT View Post
    I've been looking around as well, but can't seem to find anything. Would appriciate a source!
    https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...97566018158593

    "Numbers are still being finalized. In general, the adjustments are in the 10% range."

    https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...97597893324800

    "Around 10%. Screech should still inflict >50% of health without defensive cooldowns so you do need to stay spread."

    Which kinda makes me wonder *again* if they are actually nerfing his frontal or screech. Oh well, not playing 10 man either way.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2014-01-21 at 11:05 AM.

  9. #469
    The Patient Rangz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...97566018158593

    "Numbers are still being finalized. In general, the adjustments are in the 10% range."

    https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...97597893324800

    "Around 10%. Screech should still inflict >50% of health without defensive cooldowns so you do need to stay spread."

    Which kinda makes me wonder *again* if they are actually nerfing his frontal or screech. Oh well, not playing 10 man either way.
    Thanks!

    Fearsome Roar and Shock Blast. It does not mention Deafening Screech.

  10. #470
    "Around 10%. Screech should still inflict >50% of health without defensive cooldowns so you do need to stay spread."

    As expect, it is Deafening Screech, since it's the only ability that increase dmg as Acceleration ramp and require raid cd stacking, which many 10man guilds have problems with. Fearsome Roar is just a typo.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by archkiller View Post
    "Around 10%. Screech should still inflict >50% of health without defensive cooldowns so you do need to stay spread."

    As expect, it is Deafening Screech, since it's the only ability that increase dmg as Acceleration ramp and require raid cd stacking, which many 10man guilds have problems with. Fearsome Roar is just a typo.
    At no point does it mentions that screech is being changed.

    What he says is that Shock Blast and Deafening roar will be reduced for around 10%, but since screech still hits for over 50% of your health you still need to spread.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2014-01-21 at 01:01 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  12. #472
    Herald of the Titans T Man's Avatar
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    As a game designer, I would be really fucking happy with the progress people have made, having such a small % of people being able to beat the lvl of content you made, means you did a fucking good job, on the business side, I'd be kinda pissed that so many people want to see it but can't.

    Nerfing the content to allow more people to see your work half a year after you released the game shouldn't bother you as its been half a god dam year.

  13. #473
    High Overlord
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    Well, t is more than 3 months out... Almost nobody cares anymore and lots of people want them to get nerfed. You belong to a minority, they can't deliver to you this time; it's an MMO...

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Antinoos View Post
    Well, t is more than 3 months out... Almost nobody cares anymore and lots of people want them to get nerfed. You belong to a minority, they can't deliver to you this time; it's an MMO...
    So nobody cares yet lots of people want them to get nerfed? Another well thought out post on the mmo threads :/

  15. #475
    My guild is indifferent about the nerfs honestly, we could have most likely beaten Siege and Paragons w/o nerfs had we not taken 2 months off for holidays. Does it suck? Sure, but we enjoyed our time not stressing about the holiday roster and gave the members who were feeling some burn out some time off. Honestly people shouldn't be pissed, you've had 4 months so far to kill things, these nerfs are targeted at making kills a LITTLE easier.

  16. #476
    Keyboard Turner Devastated's Avatar
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    I think people are missing the hidden point, blizzard confirmed that a few fights this tier on 10man heroic are more difficult than 25man heroic, which i think from most perople i talk to the only thing harder on 25 is getting 25 solid people. But i got my alt into a decent 25man group and we cleared garrosh normal our first night got heroic imer and good pulls on heroic nuero. The raid cd's in 25man are just insane. Cant wait for WoD so the 10man guilds can be on the same page as the 25mans. This will be interesting.

    EDIT*
    And for all the *your guild is bad or didn't spend enough time on it* i feel like a lot of people are in my shoes. We had multiple raid weeks where we were unable to raid (people not showing, short on the roster) which is our own fault i suppose but i mean we have had one night to work on thok :| and now the nerf it feels kinda lame.
    Last edited by Devastated; 2014-01-21 at 06:17 PM.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarithus View Post
    However, when I complained in the past, nerfs never actually affected me because I didn't raid Heroic.
    There's nerfs were put in for the community as a whole. Not you personally.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Devastated View Post

    EDIT*
    And for all the *your guild is bad or didn't spend enough time on it* i feel like a lot of people are in my shoes. We had multiple raid weeks where we were unable to raid (people not showing, short on the roster) which is our own fault i suppose but i mean we have had one night to work on thok :| and now the nerf it feels kinda lame.
    Yes, it is.

  19. #479

  20. #480
    Well well, some of those are a bit bigger than I thought. 20% of Siegecrafter belt weapons is quite a bit - definitely one less person in 25 man. 20% off Multishot is also significant, Hisek will be far less of a pita during the edges. Still, it won't change much, except remove some random deaths.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2014-01-22 at 01:57 AM.

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