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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Jurik View Post
    Lots of videos on YT with mid-november or early december kills contradict your account. Common percentages are in the mid-to-upper 20% for terrace when not one-healing. Without disc priest I would venture to say cracking 25% would be pretty daunting back then. JT times are almost universally between 20 and 24 seconds--19 seconds or below is exceedingly rare. Going below 20 seconds can actually be counterproductive because the amount of uptime on Garrosh isn't significantly increased, while the healing mana burn rate during Annhilate is the highest point of pretty much any during the fight: raid is taking about 900k dps during this time.

    In any case, ask yourself how your post is relevant at all, besides fluffing your own ego with how much better you are than everyone else. It doesn't have any bearing on the discussion; in 10H, the DPS thresholds you have to make without taking extreme measures to survive are as I said: <3 waves of melee adds, <25 seconds in JT, <30% in the first half of P2 for afk-terrace strategy, <3 empowered whirlings before P3, and then push to p4 before everything goes to shit in p3.

    In summary: nobody cares that your guild did better while wearing cataclysm blues and using heirloom trinkets.
    I was merely stating how silly the boss is now if it is possible to have him at 30%+ and skip terrace. That the dps check is extremely leniant now. You were the one that went all crazy over it.

    Also I was referring to october/early nov kills, not december kills.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  2. #662
    Speaking as someone who has had a terrible start to MoP raiding forming a new team isnt easy it takes time. You cant expect to perform at a stellar level when you have just made a raid team its like pugging if you arent familiar with each other. My guild formed 25man hc at the start of ToT and i can safely say we have like 8 original raid members left to this day. You cant blame blizzard for nerfing things so far into SoO. While its not great for the guild that kill it post nerf i guar(dam)ntee you that you will find it hard regardless of nerfs. No boss will fall over the second you enter because its been slightly nerfed. Im sure you will still wipe to belt issues on siege like 30-40 times and still lose someone to paragons for a mechanic which hasnt been nerfed. Remember blizzard didnt nerf the fights into the ground they just made it slightly easier, its still the last 3 bosses of lets face it a long raid tier (14 bosses). Since this is the last raid of the expac traditionally it will get nerfed over time so more and more players will see the end game hc fights. Tbh i dont remember a time where gear has been an issue this entire expansion. Not once have we wiped to enrage (well nourshen hc and thats because of the mechanic in itself) and the whole let people get gear to natural nerf argument is redundant because no amount of gear is going to save you from dying to chomp or dying on the belt. Yes its nerfed, yes you cant kill it non nerfed anymore oh well keep playing you will still enjoy it and tbh no one cares if you killed it prenerf unless you are some super high end world 100 guild and even then saying that they wouldnt be caught dead killing a boss post nerf so meh enjoy your new guild and just have fun build a stable team and look to WoD to cement your name in wow history (bla bla inspirational speach crap).

  3. #663
    Herald of the Titans T Man's Avatar
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    I'm assuming firefly33 is talking about 10man numbers right?

  4. #664
    You said this in another thread as well, but... why would you ever want to do Jade Temple below 20 energy? Where is the gain by doing this? Sub 25 should be just okay.

  5. #665
    Herald of the Titans T Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    You said this in another thread as well, but... why would you ever want to do Jade Temple below 20 energy? Where is the gain by doing this? Sub 25 should be just okay.
    Our first kill was Jade temple 23? ToES 50+ and emp whirlings before 10% an 2 after.

  6. #666
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    We are very very near a kill on Garrosh with our 25m group(best attempt is 17% P4, wiped to the dangerous 4th malice ), here's our DPS points so far:

    P1: Sometimes we get the 2nd Wolf rider, sometimes we don't
    1st Transition: 20-23 energy
    P2.1: We go to 2nd Trans with boss at around 25-26%
    2nd Transition: We use the AFK strat as DPS is not an issue
    P2.2: We can push the boss before 2nd Whirlwind, but choose not to do so because of people's CDs(2 min CDs would be delayed for P3 start then)
    P3: We push the boss before 2nd Whirlwind and stack on boss for 1st one

    We could be doing much better on the DPS, but we have a few bad apples and recruiting isn't just a magical thing always. Come WoD it should be better as we and all 25 guilds have to pretty much cut 5 people off their roster. We killed Klaxxi HC on the 16th of January, and I've seen that a lot of guilds have been progressing on him since December and still haven't killed. P4 is a joke for this fight, once you are done with 4th Malice, it's GG basically.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Well well, some of those are a bit bigger than I thought. 20% of Siegecrafter belt weapons is quite a bit - definitely one less person in 25 man. 20% off Multishot is also significant, Hisek will be far less of a pita during the edges. Still, it won't change much, except remove some random deaths.
    Indeed. I do think Blackfuse will be FAR easier now though it will still be a challenge. The other nerfs are quite insignificant.
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  8. #668
    Quote Originally Posted by T Man View Post
    I'm assuming firefly33 is talking about 10man numbers right?
    Yes. 10 man/10chars

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    You said this in another thread as well, but... why would you ever want to do Jade Temple below 20 energy? Where is the gain by doing this? Sub 25 should be just okay.
    Before overgearing Garrosh it was pretty much a requirement. It was possible without but it was like shooting yourself in the foot.
    Sub 20 was maybe not needed, but 22~ at max. Every second counted and not gettig 50 energy in ToES was insanely helpful. It was about giving yourself more leeway and time inside ToES aswell as gettig those extra seconds of dps time on a boss that is nothing but a dps race.
    Nowadays it is of course not needed, but if you can manage it is really helpful. I dont have experience in progression garrosh in 570+, so I am not entirely sure how leniant the encounter becomes then, what is acceptable slack and what is not.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2014-01-31 at 11:15 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    P2.1: We go to 2nd Trans with boss at around 25-26%
    2nd Transition: We use the AFK strat as DPS is not an issue
    P2.2: We can push the boss before 2nd Whirlwind, but choose not to do so because of people's CDs(2 min CDs would be delayed for P3 start then)
    Wait, you start from ~45% and could get him before second empowered whirl? We got to 23-43 at some point, but it was still too slow to make it - unless he'd do Desecrate first, maybe. Didn't feel like making all 3 tanks stand in Annihilate to make up for it, not worth the stress and risk.

    And it seems that 10 man dps checks are quite harsh, but if you beat and outgear them, you can break the fight in other ways Sounds about right.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2014-01-31 at 11:18 AM.

  10. #670
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Wait, you start from ~45% and could get him before second empowered whirl? We got to 23-43 at some point, but it was still too slow to make it - unless he'd do Desecrate first, maybe. Didn't feel like making all 3 tanks stand in Annihilate to make up for it, not worth the stress and risk.

    And it seems that 10 man dps checks are quite harsh, but if you beat and outgear them, you can break the fight in other ways Sounds about right.
    Yeah he is at 45% after 2nd Trans ends and we can still make it before 2nd Whirlwind sometimes, but people's 2 min CDs line up with start of P3 + Lust if we wait it out, and P3 is the DPS check, not P2.

  11. #671
    Getting sub-50 energy for the second half of P2 isn't really that useful. It changes the damage requirement on MCs by about 1m, but has no other effect. Immunity to CCs is immaterial--those MCs basically explode even when empowered. You still get empowered whirling which is the thing that makes P2 hard: you can do 60+% of Garrosh's health after JT and before ToES, but push only ~35% post-ToES in almost the same length of time. And the only thing that should be killing you in P2 is people screwing up empowered whirling.

  12. #672
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunvor View Post
    Indeed. I do think Blackfuse will be FAR easier now though it will still be a challenge. The other nerfs are quite insignificant.
    It's a lot easier if you have experience on him. There are still lots of ways to fail on that boss. Failing on belts, bad strat, not slowing mines, people getting hit by stuff, etc.

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    It's a lot easier if you have experience on him. There are still lots of ways to fail on that boss. Failing on belts, bad strat, not slowing mines, people getting hit by stuff, etc.
    Yeah I agree. The nerfs have completely destroyed the belt dps challenge, but wipes on that were mostly an annoyance. The rest of the nerfs are fairly insignificant honestly. There are only few times where someone "just" managed to survive a mistake. You either die because of it + overload or you survive with loads of health left, because you used a cooldown. There is not one reason to not manage to kill a belt anymore though.

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